[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sinbad said:
That and the fact that there is already a regional difference in fuel price, so there's no reason a levy can't be provincial based.
THen again, saNral... NATIONAL roads. Simple.
Click to expand...

Good Point... these are National Routes... most of them start with the N designation.
 
Garyvdh said:
Good Point... these are National Routes... most of them start with the N designation.
Click to expand...

R21 and R24 exceptions, I guess. But then again the R21 is the most improved road of the lot. Why is SANRAL improving an R road?
 
Sinbad said:
R21 and R24 exceptions, I guess. But then again the R21 is the most improved road of the lot. Why is SANRAL improving an R road?
Click to expand...

Historically they were more minor routes, but due to capacity demand they have been upgraded over the years.
The DA can argue that they now constitute de facto national routes.
And even if they don't, there are still enough N routes being tolled to make it the majority of the project.
Therefore the entire project is of national and provincial importance.
 
I heard the radio advert this morning on 5FM about how Sanral has tracked 2 million cars and works out less than blah blah percent will pay the R450 if etagged. I remember previous workings out here that refuted this. ASA complaint time?
 
IzZzy said:
I heard the radio advert this morning on 5FM about how Sanral has tracked 2 million cars and works out less than blah blah percent will pay the R450 if etagged. I remember previous workings out here that refuted this. ASA complaint time?
Click to expand...

Do it!
 
Garyvdh said:
Easy enough, they will fall back on the old argument of Gauteng Economy benefits the national economy.
Click to expand...

In which case lawyers for the state will argue that it was correctly tabled in parliament...
 
DJ... said:
In which case lawyers for the state will argue that it was correctly tabled in parliament...
Click to expand...

Nope, that still won't work. The DA is not arguing that it is ONLY a national matter.
They are arguing that it is BOTH a national and provincial matter.
That defence will not stand.
 
Wyzak said:
And if the user decides not to confirm receipt? Not that I expect them to open it, it's all just a farce anyway.
Click to expand...

Excuse me if I use the wrong IT jargon, but many emails are set up in such a way that the sender will get an automatic "read" receipt once the recipient opened the email, without the recipient actively needing to confirm it.
 
blunomore said:
Excuse me if I use the wrong IT jargon, but many emails are set up in such a way that the sender will get an automatic "read" receipt once the recipient opened the email, without the recipient actively needing to confirm it.
Click to expand...

It's actually not. It is completely voluntary and the email protocols don't require such confirmation. They only care about delivery to the end mail server and then forget about it. My email is setup by default to ignore all requests for read receipts, and before I set that up it always asks whether I want to send one or not. All of that means that one can't put much faith in whether your email was actually received or not, and even more read or not.
 
Wyzak said:
It's actually not. It is completely voluntary and the email protocols don't require such confirmation. They only care about delivery to the end mail server and then forget about it. My email is setup by default to ignore all requests for read receipts, and before I set that up it always asks whether I want to send one or not. All of that means that one can't put much faith in whether your email was actually received or not, and even more read or not.
Click to expand...

Correct. Its a send and forget type of system from the SMTP protocol. Tracking is only done if someone confirms a read receipt . Thats it. Other hidden code in the email? Highly doubt it. Google for example wouldn't allow that sort of thing through their servers and nor would most A/V and firewalls.
 
Tander said:
Correct. Its a send and forget type of system from the SMTP protocol. Tracking is only done if someone confirms a read receipt . Thats it. Other hidden code in the email? Highly doubt it. Google for example wouldn't allow that sort of thing through their servers and nor would most A/V and firewalls.
Click to expand...

HTML email with embedded images? There's your tracker right there. 1 pixel image with a unique number in the URL, retrieved from the tracking server when the mail client renders the mail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_bug
 
Sinbad said:
HTML email with embedded images? There's your tracker right there. 1 pixel image with a unique number in the URL, retrieved from the tracking server when the mail client renders the mail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_bug
Click to expand...

Yeah, I wouldn't rely on that method.
Edit: And you can have images turned off - that way HTML code that links to a Url would not run.
 
Sinbad said:
You and I are safe, but MANY MANY people aren't ;)
Click to expand...

I'll concede to that...

Back on topic:

If the High Court judges are "bought" by the ANC then this is a fruitless exercise by the DA, not so?
 
Tander said:
If the High Court judges are "bought" by the ANC then this is a fruitless exercise by the DA, not so?
Click to expand...

Yes, but at least then every court case brought before them is being watched by observers within and without the country.
The more they refuse to rule objectively the more their reputation is tarnished and it become obvious to all observers how independent the judiciary in SA is.
These things have long term repercussions on their status and reputation.
So the answer is to bring as many cases as possible to test their objectivity.
 
Garyvdh said:
Yes, but at least then every court case brought before them is being watched by observers within and without the country.
The more they refuse to rule objectively the more their reputation is tarnished and it become obvious to all observers how independent the judiciary in SA is.
These things have long term repercussions on their status and reputation.
So the answer is to bring as many cases as possible to test their objectivity.
Click to expand...

That sort of thing would take years to notice and to "test" - not so?
Secondly it does nothing to help stop the tolls now. As you said earlier - the real power to stop these tolls is in every one of us who don't support it.
 
Tander said:
That sort of thing would take years to notice and to "test" - not so?
Secondly it does nothing to help stop the tolls now. As you said earlier - the real power to stop these tolls is in every one of us who don't support it.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that doesn't mean we should just give up and not go the legal route.
We have to start submitting more test cases to the courts to allow us to form an opinion of their objectivity.
And there is no better test case than this one.
There are massive constitutional problems with the legislation, but the government really wants it passed.
So this is an excellent opportunity.
 
Tander said:
If the High Court judges are "bought" by the ANC then this is a fruitless exercise by the DA, not so?
Click to expand...
We're pretty sure court judges don't pander to political parties. They rule both ways and the judgements are available for legal experts to scrutinize for any political bias.
 
R13... said:
We're pretty sure court judges don't pander to political parties. They rule both ways and the judgements are available for legal experts to scrutinize for any political bias.
Click to expand...

Like the appointment of Mogoeng mogoeng !!?

That the WHOLE law fraternity frowned upon and advised against it, and we see where that has gotten us.

If you HONESTLY believe the judicial system is fair and impartial, then you have bigger blind-spots in your judgement than I thought.
 
Wyzak said:
It's actually not. It is completely voluntary and the email protocols don't require such confirmation. They only care about delivery to the end mail server and then forget about it. My email is setup by default to ignore all requests for read receipts, and before I set that up it always asks whether I want to send one or not. All of that means that one can't put much faith in whether your email was actually received or not, and even more read or not.
Click to expand...

Will bow to your superior knowledge. I think I simply forgot that the user set up these things right in the beginning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X