Mbeki gets R90 million security wall

bwana said:
He works for the people - not the other way around. IOW he is supposed to serve the people and address their needs.
Click to expand...

Granted, but that doesn't take away the fact that he is every South Africans president :confused:

He was voted into power by the majority of South Africans and is now mandated to serve all South Africans. Not only the ones who voted for him which makes him everyones President.

Whether he does that or not is obviously up for a lot of debate..

But I am not sure any of this has much to do with an imaginary wall :D
 
GavinMannion said:
Granted, but that doesn't take away the fact that he is every South Africans president :confused:

He was voted into power by the majority of South Africans and is now mandated to serve all South Africans. Not only the ones who voted for him which makes him everyones President.

Whether he does that or not is obviously up for a lot of debate..

But I am not sure any of this has much to do with an imaginary wall :D
Click to expand...
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't have presidential elections in this country - we have National Elections where we vote for a party - not a person. So, no, nobody technically voted the fool into power (except the morons in the ANC that is)
 
BobbyMac said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't have presidential elections in this country - we have National Elections where we vote for a party - not a person. So, no, nobody technically voted the fool into power (except the morons in the ANC that is)
Click to expand...

If that were true, nobody would care about the leadership of political parties. But in the real world, people vote for the parties based on their policies AND leadership.
 
BobbyMac said:
You chose to keep flogging the horse.
Click to expand...

Yeah slow day....

sox63 said:
If that were true, nobody would care about the leadership of political parties. But in the real world, people vote for the parties based on their policies AND leadership.
Click to expand...

Bobby actually brought up a valid point here. However even though he wasn't voted for personally the fact that he was chosen by the party that had the majority votes still makes him the president (obviously) and therefore everything else that has been said before still counts.....

How long do you think we can drag this point out for? I need my 2000 posts :)

So has every agreed that the wall story was a crock of ****?
 
BobbyMac said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but we don't have presidential elections in this country - we have National Elections where we vote for a party - not a person. So, no, nobody technically voted the fool into power (except the morons in the ANC that is)
Click to expand...

That is exactly right, we have national elections, where parties contest for seats in parliament, once the elections are over, every party is given a number of seats in Parliament according to the number of votes they received in the general election.

This is in effect, you as a voting citizen, giving the party of your choice the mandate or right to represent you in Parliament, they will then vote and make decisions on your behalf in Parliament.

On the first sitting in Parliament, a President is nominated, this can be anyone who has a seat in Parliament, a vote amongst the Parliamentarians takes place and the President is elected.

Therefore, since you mandated a group of MPs, they were voting on your behalf when they elected Mbeki President and therefore you elected Mbeki President

In 1999, Mbeki was elected unopposed

5. ELECTION OF PRESIDENT
Mr Thabo Mvuyelwa Mbeki, having been nominated by Dr N C Zuma and seconded by Mr M G P Lekota, was elected unopposed as President of the Republic. On announcing his election, the President of the Constitutional Court, on behalf of all those present, congratulated Mr Mbeki.
Click to expand...

Source

The same thing happened in 2004
 
Last edited:
GavinMannion said:
So has every agreed that the wall story was a crock of ****?
Click to expand...

Not really, if it was false, then DOPW would have come shouting from the rooftops that this false reporting by a white newspaper. I think they are on the right track except for the R90 million bit. So watch out in the next couple of days/weeks for the real amount.
 
RichardP said:
The President of South Africa manages the country and focuses on what is good for the country.

"The President of the South African people" manages the people and their actions. I relate the analogy is to Tribalism..

In a tribe, the general members listen to the Elders/Chief/President and do as the Elders say.

In a Democracy, the the president is led by the members and follows democratically elected actions. The President in a democracy has to account to the public WHY such actions are taken and has to justify all his decisions
Click to expand...

I fully agree with the distinction you make. However, not with the example. In a tribalistic society, the King is accountable to the people. That is why there is Setswana saying which states that "a King is a King because of the people" or in setswana "Kgosi ke kgosi ka batho".

I have to agree though that Mbeki does at times seem to believe that the people must account to him and not that he must account to the people. May be, it is a result of all those years spent at Britain. It is not an african tribal thing.
 
sox63 said:
Not really, if it was false, then DOPW would have come shouting from the rooftops that this false reporting by a white newspaper. I think they are on the right track except for the R90 million bit. So watch out in the next couple of days/weeks for the real amount.
Click to expand...

Public Works Minister, Thoko Didiza, has already come out and said that it is just routine maintenance that is being carried out on the Estate
 
Rooinek said:
I fully agree with the distinction you make. However, not with the example. In a tribalistic society, the King is accountable to the people. That is why there is Setswana saying which states that "a King is a King because of the people" or in setswana "Kgosi ke kgosi ka batho".

I have to agree though that Mbeki does at times seem to believe that the people must account to him and not that he must account to the people. May be, it is a result of all those years spent at Britain. It is not an african tribal thing.
Click to expand...

Argument Granted :D but the King is the King 'cos the people have faith in him. Once he is king, he can *almost* do anything he wants. The People are at his beck-and-call. He can tell the people to "go swim that river and fetch me an apple from that tree" and the people will obey...
In a democracy it should be different. He would have to justify to the people HOW they(the people) will benifit from getting the apple.

"Go Swim the river and pick Many apples so we can feast. This to me is the way it should be.
How does the public benifit from a R90Million wall ? Keep out the Mongolian inavders? :-P
 
There is no wall, it is routine maintenance, and if that includes building a wall, then it sure as hell will not cost 90 million rand, the story is a product of a wild imagination of Cobus Claasen and his editors
 
Seeing as this thread has been so hopelessly sidetracked from the original topic of the improbable wall, let me side track it some more:

Does anyone else think that 5 years is a bit long between national elections?
 
xtermin8or said:
There is no wall, it is routine maintenance, and if that includes building a wall, then it sure as hell will not cost 90 million rand, the story is a product of a wild imagination of Cobus Claasen and his editors
Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing that out. There has to be a way getting them to account for such reporting! Their credibility will surely take a knock.
 
expenditure of an amount of that nature would surely be investigated by both SCOPA and the Auditor General
 
xtermin8or said:
There is no wall, it is routine maintenance, and if that includes building a wall, then it sure as hell will not cost 90 million rand, the story is a product of a wild imagination of Cobus Claasen and his editors
Click to expand...

Do you honestly think we are going to believe some whistle blower or a statement (more propaganda) from the ruling party? Get real, it is probably a bomb proof wall.
 
icyrus said:
Seeing as this thread has been so hopelessly sidetracked from the original topic of the improbable wall, let me side track it some more:

Does anyone else think that 5 years is a bit long between national elections?
Click to expand...

It was getting back on track but anyway.

No I don't think 5 years is to long. 4 years is an average but 5 is also quite common. I prefer 5 since it seems like a more logical number.

10 years max seems logical to me. Instead of 3 4 year terms which is also quite normal in a few places I think.
 
@marine1 - Well do you expect me to believe a story with no facts or sources run in an Afrikaans newspaper whose reporters seem to be accountable to no-one - instead of the Government who are accountable to the public, and who have authorities in place to act as watchdogs esp over their spending
 
marine1 said:
Do you honestly think we are going to believe some whistle blower or a statement (more propaganda) from the ruling party? Get real, it is probably a bomb proof wall.
Click to expand...

You can't believe a newspaper report with absolutely no substance and then call the official response propaganda.... That is illogical.

A bomb proof wall doesn't cost R90 m either. I agree that the Beeld should be taken to task over this rubbish article.

News24 should be implicated as well since they republished it.

Freedom of press is great but responsible journalism is also required. Don't reveal your sources but unless they could justify there estimated price tag it should never have been published.
 
xtermin8or said:
@marine1 - Well do you expect me to believe a story with no facts or sources run in an Afrikaans newspaper whose reporters seem to be accountable to no-one - instead of the Government who are accountable to the public, and who have authorities in place to act as watchdogs esp over their spending
Click to expand...

In theory. In practice it is a very different story.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X