Microsoft could force Windows 10 update onto users

[Rouxenator]

Your average dumb home user who clicks every download button and opens every email attachment needs these forced updates. Yet it is those who complain the most.

If old versions of Windows work for you, stick to them. If you don't like updates the go for XP. It is no longer supported.

A lot of people here seems to know very little about software development and the vast changes made to how Windows 10 was designed and implemented. Saying it is a crappy OS only highlights how little you know.

I run low-end AMD systems and they work flawless on Windows 10. At work I use i7 Dell Optiplex workstations and never had problems with Windows 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 -> 10.

tl;dr It's not the OS it's you.

 

[Geoff.D]

This is complete BS for the average home PC. Windows 10's updates are a pain in the ass for anyone who doesn't have a proper Internet connection and only uses the PC occasionally.
I've switched plenty of my family members over to Linux.
Earlier this year my nephew's laptop did a update in the middle of streaming a bok rugby game.

No, it is not! It is simply a matter of either the PC owner taking the trouble to spend a bit of quality time working through the configs and setting the PC up to suit their working style and Internet connection conditions, and then taking the trouble to on a regular schedule DO the updates when it suits them, or
Getting someone to do it for them and then showing them what to do to handle the updates responsibly.
. Ignoring the updates is where the trouble starts.

 

[Geoff.D]

I have a Lenovo Ideapad 300 laptop that tells me I have an update, installs it, reboots and then tells me that the update failed. Reboots, and uninstalls it, reboots. Most irritating. Happens almost daily.

Your problem is you have for too long tried to ignore the updates! You can't do that, at some stage, you HAVE to set the time aside and catch up, or, do a complete re-install.
So now suffer because maybe that will get the messages across.

 

[Geoff.D]

Microsoft has a pathetic track record for WIN 10 Pro updates, looks like a bunch of children performing the codewritings, I can only assume they fired the whole lot and everything is 100% above board now, waisted my bandwith and hours of time, and running smooth as it should.

I don't know, seems pretty normal for the sw development industry ...... The whole industry is like that.

 

[RedViking]

I can't say windows is a crappy OS because there are no better alternatives. I don't like direction Windows (and many other corporates, Windows not the only one) is going or has already gone, but until there is a better alternative I will just have to do everything in my power to try to keep control over my PC, information and data.

 

[Johnatan56]

To those complaining about the data usage of updates, there is a metered option.

If you're complaining about the metered data usage, then you shouldn't be connecting to the internet as those updates include security patches.

The entire world is moving on, it's not MS fault that many of us are stuck on terrible 3G connections/tiny data caps, and that they are the most targeted OS and therefore require the most security patches.

Personally, I haven't had any of my machines mess up due to Windows updates bar Creators update resetting a couple of settings, neither have I heard of any friends with problems.

 

[koeks525]

People that cry about forced updates... lets give them all the side-eye. Don't cry when your PC gets hacked up due to missing security updates.

 

[Geoff.D]

Spectre meltdown mitigation caused a tonne of intel CPU's to fall over on newly built workstations and servers.

1809's first release caused numerous well known issues including data loss. Second release caused update loops primarily due to OEM builds done wrong from what I've gathered from the techs here.

And the list goes on...

You can see the guys constantly defending Microsoft ether doesn't own any of the effected devices or is completely oblivious as to what is going on in their business environments.

Not correct. In the business environment, where one expects specific customisations to be the order of the day, those responsible HAVE TO be more careful about running updates, hence why they are more likely to come up with "numerous well-known issues". What you are forgetting is why those issues exist in the first place, which is because of their customisations. Those conditions do not apply to the many thousands of PCs running WIN 10 out there. If your IT techies are not checking things first then you would be perfectly right to complain, that is their job. But to then place the blame on MS and WIN 10 is incorrect or to say that all the rest of us are oblivious to what is going on is not correct. If there are those that are affected in their business environments as to the impact an update will have on their customised environment, then they only have themselves to blame, not MS or WIN 10.

 

[Moosedrool]

Your problem is you have for too long tried to ignore the updates! You can't do that, at some stage, you HAVE to set the time aside and catch up, or, do a complete re-install.
So now suffer because maybe that will get the messages across.

Actually this issue occurs frequently when moving from 1803 to 1809. It's a OEM problem with the first windows 10 on the shelf laptops and desktop releases. You can do a clean system restore, update and see the exact same problem unfold the moment you move from 1803 to 1809. 2 Techs wanted me to remove it from wsus and then proceeded to show us the problem. We moved over to a volume license for stack building purposes after that. Clean install from the stack creates the correct system reserved partition and allows the update to run through.

Not correct. In the business environment, where one expects specific customisations to be the order of the day, those responsible HAVE TO be more careful about running updates, hence why they are more likely to come up with "numerous well-known issues". What you are forgetting is why those issues exist in the first place, which is because of their customisations. Those conditions do not apply to the many thousands of PCs running WIN 10 out there. If your IT techies are not checking things first then you would be perfectly right to complain, that is their job. But to then place the blame on MS and WIN 10 is incorrect or to say that all the rest of us are oblivious to what is going on is not correct. If there are those that are affected in their business environments as to the impact an update will have on their customised environment, then they only have themselves to blame, not MS or WIN 10.

Read the above.

Yeah we the sysadmins do patching and testing. You tell me how you do production testing before releasing something like KB4093836? How long should your test environment be up and stress tested without any issues before you let it release into production?

 

[Geoff.D]

You need to be a bit more specific about which OEM and which win 10 on the shelf laptops.
It also has a lot to do with HOW new Laptops are introduced into a business. No one I hope is "allowed" to go off and buy a laptop at Makro, and simply come into an organisation and then expect a managed company update process is going to work?

I am not phased by these "reports" anyway, and even if "data loss" happens it has no impact on me. If you know and monitor the update schedules, then you are crazy NOT to do a backup before a major update from 1803 to 1809 anyway. Yet when this happened on my fairly new LT (the one I am using now), which was on 1709, then upgraded to 1803, and then to 1809, I experienced no issues at all.
It is about being aware alert and prepared, that is all.

 

[RedViking]

To those complaining about the data usage of updates, there is a metered option.

If you're complaining about the metered data usage, then you shouldn't be connecting to the internet as those updates include security patches.

The entire world is moving on, it's not MS fault that many of us are stuck on terrible 3G connections/tiny data caps, and that they are the most targeted OS and therefore require the most security patches.

Personally, I haven't had any of my machines mess up due to Windows updates bar Creators update resetting a couple of settings, neither have I heard of any friends with problems.

I had lots of software issues with creators updates. Rolled back and installed a couple of months later again and it was fine, the reason why I want to decide when I want to upgrade. Anyways, you correct with SA's access to the internet, even my Filipino friends have fibre. Most software, also in the Architectural industry is going the always online route, can't launch the software or properly close the software without an internet connection.

 

[Moosedrool]

You need to be a bit more specific about which OEM and which win 10 on the shelf laptops.

The hell if I know. So far the devices affected are a few old HP's and Lenovo's

It also has a lot to do with HOW new Laptops are introduced into a business. No one I hope is "allowed" to go off and buy a laptop at Makro, and simply come into an organisation and then expect a managed company update process is going to work?

Yes they do, it's called a BYOD policy which I'm heavily kicking against since I started working in this organisation this year.

It's also very important to note that without a retail or volume license you can't simply customise the stack and expect safety from Microsoft as their EULA is against fresh builds on OEM. Kinda funny at the end of the day since it's MS and brand manufactures that aren't working together but rather point fingers at each other. Hell now it's MS and Intel pointing fingers at each other.

I am not phased by these "reports" anyway, and even if "data loss" happens it has no impact on me. If you know and monitor the update schedules, then you are crazy NOT to do a backup before a major update from 1803 to 1809 anyway. Yet when this happened on my fairly new LT (the one I am using now), which was on 1709, then upgraded to 1803, and then to 1809, I experienced no issues at all.
It is about being aware alert and prepared, that is all.

I never claimed we weren't. Data loss is one thing, production loss is another.

 

[Geoff.D]

Ja BYOD has to go along with plenty of special conditions.

 

[Swa]

Your average dumb home user who clicks every download button and opens every email attachment needs these forced updates. Yet it is those who complain the most.

If old versions of Windows work for you, stick to them. If you don't like updates the go for XP. It is no longer supported.

A lot of people here seems to know very little about software development and the vast changes made to how Windows 10 was designed and implemented. Saying it is a crappy OS only highlights how little you know.

I run low-end AMD systems and they work flawless on Windows 10. At work I use i7 Dell Optiplex workstations and never had problems with Windows 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 -> 10.

tl;dr It's not the OS it's you.

It's not necessarily the OS per se that's the problem but rather how MS implements it. I could agree with you up to that last point.

Your problem is you have for too long tried to ignore the updates! You can't do that, at some stage, you HAVE to set the time aside and catch up, or, do a complete re-install.
So now suffer because maybe that will get the messages across.

That is a crap assertion. No other OS has such a problem and works just fine. This is just passing the buck to the consumer. To be fair MS hasn't done that exactly but the way you are expected to now know your pc everyone might as well move to Linux. Maybe Win10 will finally be the straw that broke the camel's back to give it the necessary push to mainstream.

People that cry about forced updates... lets give them all the side-eye. Don't cry when your PC gets hacked up due to missing security updates.

Win7 SP1 no security updates. Never been the target of malware. People that are usually don't know how to use the internet (and software in general) and leave the OS on default settings which is the worst for security.

 

[Polymathic]

Since the last update my keyboard on my laptop stopped working, not sure if it's a coincidence

 

[ekske1]

Win7 SP1 no security updates. Never been the target of malware. People that are usually don't know how to use the internet (and software in general) and leave the OS on default settings which is the worst for security.

It is as @Rouxenator said that is not the OS, but it is you.

I've had zero issues with virusses or malware let alone a single breakout which was my own fault since I've been using computers; that is from an apple ][, XTs and few iterations up to now. Of course these includes being connected with god awful 9600 modems.

In fact I've been running my OS "nude" since windows 7 and now windows 10, the most basic setup with only the firewall running. (ah yes, I wonder how many folks actually followed black viper's services optimization or things like nlite. Sigh at least when nlite was a thing back them.)

Imho it is imagination and risky usage that always ends with an infection / breakout.

Getting back to the windows hysteria bubble, I've had no issues with windows 10 on my two pcs and one laptop which includes gaming and software development. You've either got a funky combination, BKAC / 10+ items in your systray or some other bizzare reason why it "is not working out".

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

I am an IBM Unix Sys Engineer (3 years ) from the early 90s and still find Windows easier to use, navigate, install,configure for the average man on the street out there - and I use it myself for everything from personal use to my astro imaging processing to 3 tier client server apps i specialise in.

Ah, that explains it! Sympathies ...
(Ex Sun Systems Engineer here of many years)

Before you take exception, a cue from a good HP Engineer serving a common client will help. We never let up on "the war" banter. But he was hellishly worried the day I said a certain HP array was a great array. Rightly so as he found out later, I'd parked my fresh cup of coffee on one ... it was just in the right place at the right height.
(It was actually a decommissioned broken array, standing in the ops room, about to be scrapped in all fairness).

 

[HeftyCrab]

Your average dumb home user who clicks every download button and opens every email attachment needs these forced updates. Yet it is those who complain the most.

If old versions of Windows work for you, stick to them. If you don't like updates the go for XP. It is no longer supported.

A lot of people here seems to know very little about software development and the vast changes made to how Windows 10 was designed and implemented. Saying it is a crappy OS only highlights how little you know.

I run low-end AMD systems and they work flawless on Windows 10. At work I use i7 Dell Optiplex workstations and never had problems with Windows 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 -> 10.

tl;dr It's not the OS it's you.

Totally agree. Pushing down security patches would be a good thing.

 

[Swa]

It is as @Rouxenator said that is not the OS, but it is you.

I've had zero issues with virusses or malware let alone a single breakout which was my own fault since I've been using computers; that is from an apple ][, XTs and few iterations up to now. Of course these includes being connected with god awful 9600 modems.

In fact I've been running my OS "nude" since windows 7 and now windows 10, the most basic setup with only the firewall running. (ah yes, I wonder how many folks actually followed black viper's services optimization or things like nlite. Sigh at least when nlite was a thing back them.)

Imho it is imagination and risky usage that always ends with an infection / breakout.

Getting back to the windows hysteria bubble, I've had no issues with windows 10 on my two pcs and one laptop which includes gaming and software development. You've either got a funky combination, BKAC / 10+ items in your systray or some other bizzare reason why it "is not working out".

Except that Win10 seems to have more reasons why it's not working than any other OS. If MS had followed good practices it could have been a great OS but they don't have a history of doing that. It's too easy to blame it on the consumer.

 

[Sl8er]

Flash issue sorted with a new MX-18 install.
What a pleasure!

On Win 10:
I've never had any issues with it...now just feels like the right time to move.