Mirror Trading International

[John Tempus]

As much as I appreciate your input, I think it would be best to familiarize yourself with the forum rules as I an not sure that @rpm would be very appreciative of this sort of behavior.

I would also like to see some input from the parties involved and I think it's important that this thread is here for people to see so i'd hate to see it locked or removed due to defamatory remarks being made.

Could we please try to be a bit more civil here?

Scams should be treated with 100% distain at all times. There is nothing to be civil about and if we give this crap even one post of time to breath then I hope you are prepared to take the blame for some random reader who falls for this.

So no, if someone wants to prevent bad mouthing this entire scam because of "being polite" forum rules then its no different than supporting scams.

Again it seems even you don't understand that A. The promises made by this scheme is unattainable and complete scamming marketing verbiage. There is absolutely nothing more to find out about this, cut straight to the facts and the facts are that the guy operating this have scams millions out of previous poor individuals in his Kipi Dreams scam and is simply repeating the same scam under different pretext.

I made no defamatory remarks. Everything I stated here is the factual truth and someone like Johan who is scamming people lost their right to dignity many years ago.

TLDR; Mirror Trading is a scam by the fact they promise 0.5%+ daily returns via their super duper trading algo. This promise in itself is 100% unattainable , its a marketing ploy and simply used as a means for pyramid schemes to have a backstory every single time.

 

[John Tempus]

Although I still can't really take what you have to say seriously due to your affiliation with the company, I feel your frustration here on this bit...

It would be nice to have an open and constructive conversation about this.

That said, Thanks Peter? Appreciate that you have stuck yourself on the line here to try and provide some input on things.

Seriously man, you cannot be this blindly gullible. This guy is 99.99% a paid shill for this company. That is the only reason he is on here, it has nothing to do with sticking out his neck. This guys need more fools to dump their money into this scam to either profit from it directly.

Anyone who have seen ponzi/pyramid schemes operate since the inception of Bitcoin can see this for what it is. I suggest you go venture onto bitcointalk and find MLM/HYIP/PYRAMID schemes and see for yourself how their shills operate.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Scams should be treated with 100% distain at all times. There is nothing to be civil about and if we give this crap even one post of time to breath then I hope you are prepared to take the blame for some random reader who falls for this.

So no, if someone wants to prevent bad mouthing this entire scam because of "being polite" forum rules then its no different than supporting scams.

Again it seems even you don't understand that A. The promises made by this scheme is unattainable and complete scamming marketing verbiage. There is absolutely nothing more to find out about this, cut straight to the facts and the facts are that the guy operating this have scams millions out of previous poor individuals in his Kipi Dreams scam and is simply repeating the same scam under different pretext.

I made no defamatory remarks. Everything I stated here is the factual truth and someone like Johan who is scamming people lost their right to dignity many years ago.

TLDR; Mirror Trading is a scam by the fact they promise 0.5%+ daily returns via their super duper trading algo. This promise in itself is 100% unattainable , its a marketing ploy and simply used as a means for pyramid schemes to have a backstory every single time.

When the OP asked me about this originally, I told them that I believe this to be a scam and discussed my reasoning in detail. I further mentioned that MyBroadBand would be a great place to find out more as there are a lot of knowledgeable members here that would surely be able to provide some good advice.

My point is simply that this sort of behavior has no place on the forums for what ever reasons... The MyBB team has gone out of their way to provide a really solid solution for us to come and converse about various things and it's awesome... It's actually not fair on them to have to deal with circumstances like this.

I'd hate to see this become a toxic cesspool like reddit one day should this type of thing become common... Just saying...

EDIT: Typo

 

[Speedster]

One of the first lessons I learnt in studying investments at varsity is that if somebody has found some magical way of consistently attaining highly profitable returns the most irrational thing to do is to invite others to the party. You self fund or, at worst, find a couple of trusted financiers, and keep all the profit for yourself. Since then my number 1 question when evaluating investments opportunities has been, "why do they need my money?". If there is no clear answer on this, then it's almost surely a scam. So, for these mirror guys, why do they need my money?

E.g. in a traditional investment the broker needs money as he makes his living off the fees I pay. A bank needs my money as they loan it out for interest. People who sell online courses guaranteeing super-profits don't need my money (if their methods work) so clearly a scam.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Seriously man, you cannot be this blindly gullible. This guy is 99.99% a paid shill for this company. That is the only reason he is on here, it has nothing to do with sticking out his neck. This guys need more fools to dump their money into this scam to either profit from it directly.

Anyone who have seen ponzi/pyramid schemes operate since the inception of Bitcoin can see this for what it is. I suggest you go venture onto bitcointalk and find MLM/HYIP/PYRAMID schemes and see for yourself how their shills operate.

But the thing is, you cannot say for absolute certainty that this is the case? It's simply your opinion on how things are based on what information exists. Every person has their own perception of these facts.

I am certainly not so gullible to believe that this is not the case but I am not going to be so simple minded to think that this is the only possibility here.

As I said before, I'm not sure that @PerCrypto is a scammer but I do feel like they are heavily invested in this.

I do appreciate that he has put himself literally on the line to discuss and provide more information, regardless of circumstance or motivation.

Hopefully he will pass the message on to those at MTI and hopefully they can come and provide some input on all of this as I would actually like to read / see what they have to say.

I'm not involved with MTI and I have not given them a cent... Just a curious observer here hey.

 

[John Tempus]

But the thing is, you cannot say for absolute certainty that this is the case? It's simply your opinion on how things are based on what information exists. Every person has their own perception of these facts.

Based on their own marketing material, website information and history of the CEO, I can say with absolute certainty that this is a scam.

Let me reiterate, the promises they make is not based in reality so unless your unable to do basic 1+1 math then this is the kind of scam you should get involved in as a customer.

He did not put himself on the line, he is invested in this scam and his only posts on this forum is specific to this scam and this thread. He is passively defending the scam and would not blink if more people throw money into this scam which in turn would be beneficial for him to get a payout.

I would love to have just a few minutes open discussion here about even the most basic trading approaches with these so-called geniuses who wrote a guaranteed returns algo. Like I stated previously, they will not discuss anything remotely close to real trading here because scammers like this can only make "good" marketing promises but always fail at having qualified knowledge about the subject of the scam.

I don't want to give these sort of scammers ideas but if Mirror Trading simply stated something like they do actual mirror trading of the top forex traders and published the BTC deposit address and actual trading statements from a credible trading platform it would look a bit better for the actual trading part but their marketing claims will never be backed up by such evidence.

Also since they claim to use the BTC deposits as a sort of collateral against their USD forex position that has been claimed in here(again this does not even make sense cause BTC price spike and dumps just about every minute so if they were in a $ position on forex market are you telling me they will just randomly get staked liquidity for their $ position when their BTC holdings dont match it).

Any other questions ?

 

[Bewlen]

But the thing is, you cannot say for absolute certainty that this is the case? It's simply your opinion on how things are based on what information exists. Every person has their own perception of these facts.

I am certainly not so gullible to believe that this is not the case but I am not going to be so simple minded to think that this is the only possibility here.

As I said before, I'm not sure that @PerCrypto is a scammer but I do feel like they are heavily invested in this.

I do appreciate that he has put himself literally on the line to discuss and provide more information, regardless of circumstance or motivation.

Hopefully he will pass the message on to those at MTI and hopefully they can come and provide some input on all of this as I would actually like to read / see what they have to say.

I'm not involved with MTI and I have not given them a cent... Just a curious observer here hey.

Your proposal is effectively now a pitch to provide a platform to a pyramid scheme to recruit members. Sorry but definitely No. They should be treated with disdain only, until they adhere to a regulatory body, which is FAIS.

Fact of the matter is, they take control of funds or deposits, without regulatory approval. Scammers. End of discussion.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Based on their own marketing material, website information and history of the CEO, I can say with absolute certainty that this is a scam.

Let me reiterate, the promises they make is not based in reality so unless your unable to do basic 1+1 math then this is the kind of scam you should get involved in as a customer.

He did not put himself on the line, he is invested in this scam and his only posts on this forum is specific to this scam and this thread. He is passively defending the scam and would not blink if more people throw money into this scam which in turn would be beneficial for him to get a payout.

I would love to have just a few minutes open discussion here about even the most basic trading approaches with these so-called geniuses who wrote a guaranteed returns algo. Like I stated previously, they will not discuss anything remotely close to real trading here because scammers like this can only make "good" marketing promises but always fail at having qualified knowledge about the subject of the scam.

I don't want to give these sort of scammers ideas but if Mirror Trading simply stated something like they do actual mirror trading of the top forex traders and published the BTC deposit address and actual trading statements from a credible trading platform it would look a bit better for the actual trading part but their marketing claims will never be backed up by such evidence.

Also since they claim to use the BTC deposits as a sort of collateral against their USD forex position that has been claimed in here(again this does not even make sense cause BTC price spike and dumps just about every minute so if they were in a $ position on forex market are you telling me they will just randomly get staked liquidity for their $ position when their BTC holdings dont match it).

Any other questions ?

Let me reiterate on my previous comments for you.

- I know a few people that have had money with this company for a while.
- I believe that this is actually a scam.
- Based on my own research and actual facts relating to said few peoples accounts, the "unattainable" promises that they have made have so far been fulfilled.
- My previous question was and still is at which point does this turn around and not be the case.

You can say what you want about me but this has been my honest experience for the past few months when the OP approached me about this to date.

In any case, I actually do appreciate your input, really. It's helped me to better understand things in general as I am not very knowledgeable about cryptocurrencies or trading for that matter and have for the most part not put much focus into things like this.

That said, I understand more now... It's more about taking from Peter to give to Joe, Joe sees a profit and Peter might see a return but when the new customers stop coming in... Yeah... The big claims and the lack of transparency are a real problem here... I feel like there is only one person who know's what exactly is happening with the flow of capital and that's Johan?

That said, in my books providing personal information on the public facing interface is putting yourself on the line as it does not go away. It's a pretty risky thing to do and I think most "scammers" would not want that type of spotlight on them hence my belief that the new guy is more of a passionate investor rather than someone who is directly involved with trying to scam people out of their money... He's already said that he has been the victim of various scams in the past, it's a flag for me and I actually feel a bit sorry for him if that is the case as it seems he may have gotten himself caught up in a similar situation now again.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Your proposal is effectively now a pitch to provide a platform to a pyramid scheme to recruit members. Sorry but definitely No. They should be treated with disdain only, until they adhere to a regulatory body, which is FAIS.

Fact of the matter is, they take control of funds or deposits, without regulatory approval. Scammers. End of discussion.

Forgive my lack of understanding but how exactly is the FAIS act a governing body? I think you may be referring to https://www.fsca.co.za.

That said, it would still be nice to hear directly from the company, maybe they have a roadmap who knows but given everything that's been said to date i'm assuming not so yeah... As the OP has said, BE WARNED!

EDIT: Actually It seems that the new guy said something about this, bitcoin in bitcoin out, no need for registering with FSCA? Is that correct or incorrect?

 

[John Tempus]

That said, in my books providing personal information on the public facing interface is putting yourself on the line as it does not go away. It's a pretty risky thing to do and I think most "scammers" would not want that type of spotlight on them hence my belief that the new guy is more of a passionate investor rather than someone who is directly involved with trying to scam people out of their money... He's already said that he has been the victim of various scams in the past, it's a flag for me and I actually feel a bit sorry for him if that is the case as it seems he may have gotten himself caught up in a similar situation now again.

I don't think you follow the recent years crypto scams at all or simply choose to be ignorant.

Bitconnect, Onecoin, PlusToken, and the list goes on. They all had public facing individuals in order to make it seem legit and get billions from idiot investors.

It is the norm now to put a public face out there for scams and then either vanish once you are deep enough in profit or have an exit strategy that you believe will nullify you from any persecution.

 

[John Tempus]

EDIT: Actually It seems that the new guy said something about this, bitcoin in bitcoin out, no need for registering with FSCA? Is that correct or incorrect?

They claim to be trading on forex markets with USD. It does not matter if they get bitcoin in/bitcoin out even though this still would qualify in itself as securities.

The main issue that is not disputable is that they literally state they are doing fiat market trading for clients which means you must be licensed. For argument sake it does not even matter if they operate a ponzi and doesn't trade at all. The fact is they claim they are trading securities with fiat which is in itself regulated and this is the point raised here.

This is why their entire marketing ploy is so hilarious and riddled with statements that in itself should lock them up or at least land them a serious fine.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

One of the first lessons I learnt in studying investments at varsity is that if somebody has found some magical way of consistently attaining highly profitable returns the most irrational thing to do is to invite others to the party. You self fund or, at worst, find a couple of trusted financiers, and keep all the profit for yourself. Since then my number 1 question when evaluating investments opportunities has been, "why do they need my money?". If there is no clear answer on this, then it's almost surely a scam. So, for these mirror guys, why do they need my money?

It's one of the first points that I had brought up with the OP and I didn't even study investments so truth.

That said and to my basic understanding, the pitch is something like the members only see a portion of the commission generated by the trading pool and MTI takes a share of this. The larger the pool the more money they make.

If you have no money to start off with what good is having a good idea in the first place, you can go and invest your R1 and see some returns but if you went and invested R1mn or even R100mn you might actually see a bigger return on the time invested?

So I mean okay I get what you're saying and it's likely better to just find a few whales and share the profits together, less work etc but is it easy to find those whales in the first place? Maybe it's easier to find a lot of smaller investors to get to the point where you have a big enough pool to sustain or proof your operations...

Playing devils advocate here I know but I'm just curious I mean do you see any failures in the above?

E.g. in a traditional investment the broker needs money as he makes his living off the fees I pay. A bank needs my money as they loan it out for interest. People who sell online courses guaranteeing super-profits don't need my money (if their methods work) so clearly a scam.

Yeah okay I think you answered my question here already. If it's such a brilliant solution then why do they even need the money in the first place, surely by now they would be super rich and living on an island or something

 

[IndigoIdentity]

I don't think you follow the recent years crypto scams at all.

This, I have been busy... For real.

Bitconnect, Onecoin, PlusToken, and the list goes on. They all had public facing individuals in order to make it seem legit and get billions from idiot investors.

It is the norm now to put a public face out there for scams and then either vanish once you are deep enough in profit or have an exit strategy that you believe will nullify you from any persecution.

Fair point, Despite the above and thinking about it I do recall one or two stories like this so it's a valid point that you have.

Something about some lady that proposed a new alt coin and went on a huge marketing campaign meanwhile there was no crypto just marketing. Then she disappeared.

Also remember seeing some documentary on Auscoin although the guy did not disappear and looking now he's jailed.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

They claim to be trading on forex markets with USD. It does not matter if they get bitcoin in/bitcoin out even though this still would qualify in itself as securities.

The main issue that is not disputable is that they literally state they are doing fiat market trading for clients which means you must be licensed. For argument sake it does not even matter if they operate a ponzi and doesn't trade at all. The fact is they claim they are trading securities with fiat which is in itself regulated and this is the point raised here.

I think I understand what you're saying now however i'm no expert so this is quite a bit over my head. Having said that, if you're not sticking to the regulations as a business then that's an absolute joke indeed, I mean... I totally understand it's hard thing to do completely here in SA but if you're dealing with peoples money then that's no excuse at all.

This is why their entire marketing ploy is so hilarious and riddled with statements that in itself should lock them up or at least land them a serious fine.

Is FSCA the regulatory body in relation to this?

 

[Speedster]

With all due respect what are you even doing on so called crypto related thread ?


Give me a call anytime - Peter Muller - Durban my number is 0837992406 - im part of the scam = playing golf with Johan Steynberg and a few others and we all in it together - we all just love scamming people - but paying them out weekly too - quite unique actually

Answer this simple question - why do you need investor's money for your project to work? What is in it for you?

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Give me a call anytime - Peter Muller - Durban my number is (REMOVED) - im part of the scam = playing golf with Johan Steynberg and a few others and we all in it together - we all just love scamming people - but paying them out weekly too - quite unique actually

Thanks Peter, i'm really not into that type of "investment" though I might do should I ever save up enough pocket money to spend on your scam

On a more serious note though, please do try to pass on the request from the OP.

EDIT: Removed contact number

 

[IndigoIdentity]

OP ?

It's forum slang for the Original Poster.

See the linked post as they replied earlier today and would appreciate some feedback.

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Thanks everyone for the free education, really...

 

[IndigoIdentity]

Why don't we set up a live zoom call with Johan and discuss the matters of concern

Because that's a scammy thing to do... There's a few people that would appreciate feedback and there no better place for it on the internet than right here.

I mean, we've literally having an open conversation regarding the legitimacy and legalities of his company here so he should take it pretty seriously I think... If not then I'd say that is quite dodgy.

That said up to the OP to have you up on the offer.

 

[John Tempus]

lmao so PetCrypto deleted his account on the forum.

Awww no christmas bonus from this forum for your scam, I know the Coronavirus is making for some desperate times so it makes sense why you attempted to come sling your syphilitic scammy d!ck in this forum.

Crawl back in the hole you came from.