MS Frontpage

Well, gdiza, if you want to learn web development, I propose you teach yourself the correct way. But I guess it's up to you. We're allowed to voice our opinion, so consider our opinions voiced.
 
Aqua_lung said:
Seriously though... I stopped using WYSIWYG type programs, dreamweaver complicates things for me... Just get free templates and modify them with a notepad application with code coloration.
Click to expand...

no wonder notepad is easier for you - you're just using free templates and editing a few lines here and there whahahaa!!

you're not a web developer - you're a web EDITOR! try making a site from scratch, and then tell me you did it ALL in notepad.

:D :D
 
Notepad is too basic for me. FWIW, I write my web sites by hand, but I use decent text editors to do so - Programmer's Notepad, Notepad++, Aptana Studio, etc.
 
Raithlin said:
Notepad is too basic for me. FWIW, I write my web sites by hand, but I use decent text editors to do so - Programmer's Notepad, Notepad++, Aptana Studio, etc.
Click to expand...

That's nothing - I dream in binary! :D
 
Keeper said:
no wonder notepad is easier for you - you're just using free templates and editing a few lines here and there whahahaa!!

you're not a web developer - you're a web EDITOR! try making a site from scratch, and then tell me you did it ALL in notepad.

:D :D
Click to expand...

Aqua_Lung is actually right. When you want to achieve specific results in web-design, you need to delve into the HTML and CSS to get the job done. WYSIWYG-editors just complicate things and more often than not you end up having to redo everything by hand after struggling for hours on end with the editor's generated markup.

If you gave me a choice between Dreamweaver and Notepad, I wouldn't even hesitate choosing the latter. If I want to preview what the site looks like, I'll open the pages in a browser.

Raithlin said:
Notepad is too basic for me. FWIW, I write my web sites by hand, but I use decent text editors to do so - Programmer's Notepad, Notepad++, Aptana Studio, etc.
Click to expand...
I agree with you there. I prefer my text-editor to at least have syntax-highlighting and auto-formatting. It makes "coding" web-pages a breeze. If the editor has any form of intellisense then I'm sold - yes, I'm lazy. :p
 
Keeper said:
That's nothing - I dream in binary! :D
Click to expand...
01001101 01100001 01101110 00101100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110111 01101001 01100011 01101011 01100101 01100100 00100001
 
yeah farlig - nothing wrong with you coding in notepad - you're a developer - he's simply "editing" Free templates - of course editing a few values here and there in notepad is going to be easier!

if you're only a beginner, leave hard coding for the pro's.

"web designer" and "free template" should not be used together in 1 sentence.
 
Keeper said:
no wonder notepad is easier for you - you're just using free templates and editing a few lines here and there whahahaa!!

you're not a web developer - you're a web EDITOR! try making a site from scratch, and then tell me you did it ALL in notepad.

:D :D
Click to expand...
Did I say I use templates? I was giving gdiza a n00b tip.

But you're correct I'm not a developer I am actually a designer, I make sites from scratch with Photoshop and finish off with a text editor. I use Ubutnu so gedit is my tool of the trade and comes with features like syntax highlighting.

I can't code to save my life and make only very basic sites though.
 
afaik a n00b tip would be to use Frontpage. WYSIWYG is easy peasy.

asking a person to code everything in notepad (which would mean he has to know the html syntax and structure) isn't so easy.

.....unless i'm missing something here?
 
I think you've got it right. I always push dev-wanna-be's towards Kompozer, where they can use WYSIWYG editing to get going, and have properly generated code they can learn from later.

Ultimately, web devs and designers need to know how to code - but it's not a necessity for a beginner IMO.
 
Keeper said:
afaik a n00b tip would be to use Frontpage. WYSIWYG is easy peasy.

asking a person to code everything in notepad (which would mean he has to know the html syntax and structure) isn't so easy.

.....unless i'm missing something here?
Click to expand...

Yes that would be easier...

but then you'll end up with a crap looking site.
 
Aqua_lung said:
but then you'll end up with a crap looking site.
Click to expand...

well I differ in that opinion. what farlig and raithlin are doing is highly technical stuff - Web 2.0 - forms, and scripting.

they know what they are doing, code-wise - but IMHO that has nothing to do with the *look* of the site, but what it can DO (like a shopping site, or a site with an interactive coverage map)

say whatever you want, to me it boils down to the Designer, and what he's capable of - not wheter or not your using FP, DW or notepad.

PS: and it's Notepad, not Wordpad. there's a difference.
 
FWIW, I've seen some pretty awesome sites that started in PhotoShop and ended up in DreamWeaver. I've also seen the same done with a text editor and GIMP.

@gdiza, it doesn't matter which way you choose to go - you're going to have to do some catching up anyway. The web has changed a bit since you last coded for it, and the standards are a lot sturdier than before. Browsers have also changed, and it means you'll be reading up on stuff before being confident enough to take a site to your boss. Good luck, and we'll all be here - probably still arguing, too. :p
 
Does front page still generate HTML like this:
Code: 
<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11">
<meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 11">
<link rel=File-List href="This_files/filelist.xml">
<title>This</title>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <o:DocumentProperties>
  <o:Author>Jonathan</o:Author>
  <o:LastAuthor>Jonathan</o:LastAuthor>
  <o:Revision>1</o:Revision>
  <o:TotalTime>1</o:TotalTime>
  <o:Created>2009-07-02T11:52:00Z</o:Created>
  <o:LastSaved>2009-07-02T11:53:00Z</o:LastSaved>
  <o:Pages>1</o:Pages>
  <o:Words>2</o:Words>
  <o:Characters>16</o:Characters>
  <o:Company>Hiprom</o:Company>
  <o:Lines>1</o:Lines>
  <o:Paragraphs>1</o:Paragraphs>
  <o:CharactersWithSpaces>17</o:CharactersWithSpaces>
  <o:Version>11.9999</o:Version>
 </o:DocumentProperties>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <w:WordDocument>
  <w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
  <w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
  <w:PunctuationKerning/>
  <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>
  <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>
  <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>
  <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>
  <w:Compatibility>
   <w:BreakWrappedTables/>
   <w:SnapToGridInCell/>
   <w:WrapTextWithPunct/>
   <w:UseAsianBreakRules/>
   <w:DontGrowAutofit/>
  </w:Compatibility>
  <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
 </w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156">
 </w:LatentStyles>
</xml><![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
 /* Font Definitions */
 @font-face
	{font-family:Tahoma;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
	mso-font-charset:0;
	mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
	mso-font-pitch:variable;
	mso-font-signature:1627421319 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;}
@font-face
	{font-family:Verdana;
	panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;
	mso-font-charset:0;
	mso-generic-font-family:swiss;
	mso-font-pitch:variable;
	mso-font-signature:536871559 0 0 0 415 0;}
 /* Style Definitions */
 p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
	{mso-style-parent:"";
	margin:0in;
	margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
	font-size:12.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";
	mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.SpellE
	{mso-style-name:"";
	mso-spl-e:yes;}
@page Section1
	{size:8.5in 11.0in;
	margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
	mso-header-margin:.5in;
	mso-footer-margin:.5in;
	mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
	{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
 /* Style Definitions */
 table.MsoNormalTable
	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
	mso-style-noshow:yes;
	mso-style-parent:"";
	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
	mso-para-margin:0in;
	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
	font-size:10.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";
	mso-ansi-language:#0400;
	mso-fareast-language:#0400;
	mso-bidi-language:#0400;}
table.MsoTableGrid
	{mso-style-name:"Table Grid";
	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
	border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
	mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;
	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
	mso-border-insideh:.5pt solid windowtext;
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	mso-para-margin:0in;
	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
	mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
	font-size:10.0pt;
	font-family:"Times New Roman";
	mso-ansi-language:#0400;
	mso-fareast-language:#0400;
	mso-bidi-language:#0400;}
</style>
<![endif]-->
</head>

<body lang=EN-US style='tab-interval:.5in'>

<div class=Section1>

<table class=MsoTableGrid border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0
 style='border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;
 mso-yfti-tbllook:480;mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-border-insideh:
 .5pt solid windowtext;mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext'>
 <tr style='mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
  <td width=197 valign=top style='width:2.05in;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
  mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'>
  <p class=MsoNormal><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span
  style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>This<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
  </td>
  <td width=197 valign=top style='width:2.05in;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
  border-left:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;mso-border-alt:
  solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'>
  <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>is a <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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  border-left:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;mso-border-alt:
  solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'>
  <p class=MsoNormal><span class=SpellE><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><u><span
  style='font-family:Verdana'>pOsT</span></u></i></span><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:
  normal'><u><span style='font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></u></i></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

?
 
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