Had a contract with MTN for 8 years ported over to the lesser of the two evils (Vodacom) end of last year, my skin was to white this just proves it once again. MTN I wish you many years of bad luck and hardship.
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MTN R8.1 billion BEE transaction
- Thread starter rpm
- Start date
roberth
Well-Known Member
This article is incorrect. Phakamisa Ndzamela doesn't have a clue whats happening.
MTN are selling shares in its BEE special purpose vehicle, BIC, for R20. BIC will then use the money raised to buy MTN shares at R107.46 (the 20-trading day volume weighted average price of an MTN share). So you will need to buy 5.4 BIC shares to effectively hold 1 MTN share.
So for e.g. if only 6 BIC shares are sold (6*R20=R120), then BIC can only afford 1 MTN share (at R107.46), and then the dividends from that 1 MTN share will be split to pay the 6 BIC shareholders. So you aren't buying 1 MTN share for R20, you are buying 1/6th of an MTN share, and you will probably end up worse off because there will be other costs associated with BIC which they will take from the MTN dividends that they receive.
And the R107.46 that BIC are paying for a MTN share is the 20-trading day volume weighted average price of an MTN share, so anybody could have bought MTN shares at around that price on the JSE in the last 20 trading days, so the BEE guys who participate here aren't actually getting much extra value.
I love the way how the term racism seems to have found a new definition, racism is only real if it's whites against some other race.
What a load of rubbish, this is just feeding the thriving racism of this country.
What a load of rubbish, this is just feeding the thriving racism of this country.
The blacks living in shacks will not be the ones to benefit from this, the ones driving the german-engineered cars to their houses in Waterkloof and Campsbay will benefit. Why does it have to be "blacks" what about the indians and coloureds who were also disadvantaged?
If you become wealthy hardworking and successful at the expense of others who are working just as hard as you just because you are of darker skin colour. Then yes it should be a crime.
Maybe because I was 7 in '94 and I will be a second class citizen for the rest of my live and so will my children if I don't decide to leave this country for someplace where I will be treated equally.
+1
It's been almost 20 years since Apartheid was over. Most people under 40 had no say in Apartheid. It's like they think all white south africans got given free lifetime trust funds or something.
White people aside, as has been said, this is not about righting wrongs, if it was then it wouldnt just be for the blacks it would include indians and coloureds too.
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Don't try and sell me with the "oh, I was 7 years of age and therefore I didn't oppress black people and didn't benefit directly from Apartheid", the fact is that you did benefit indirectly from Apartheid, who paid for your school fees? If your dad was a freedom fighter then what about your grand parents? Did they benefit from the oppression of black people? Are/were you using their money to further your education so that you can get the job that you have currently? I seriously doubt that you grew up in a shack somewhere and got a scholarship after working very hard at school because you wouldn't be able to afford tertiary education fees.
I'm not saying it's your fault for growing up wherever you grew up, and benefiting from your parent's money so you can be where you are today. You are probably a hard working person and paying your taxes and contributing to the economy. But the fact is that there are millions of children in this country who are born into poor families and it's not their fault.
I think if you will wait for many many years my friend if you want equality in this country. Black people run the government while white people run the economy, part of the BEE and the BBBEE strategy was to make more and more black people part of the economy so that one day they will run it, but ofcourse this system is abused so that fat cats can benefit at the expense of both poor black people and white people. You will be doing yourself a bit favor if you leave this country like you said you will, otherwise stress and frustration will make you miserable.
But Vodacom entered a similar R7.5bn BEE deal 2 years ago. Are you boycotting all products where the holding company abides by BEE laws?
Um, it is applicable to Indians and mixed-race individuals. In fact all non-whites...:erm:
And when does this tired argument finally end? It could be used indefinitely. In fact if we use your logic, we should be blaming the English and the Dutch for everything. Think about it for a second, this blame game is not a workable solution. And in fact BEE is having a rather problematic side-effect: seen the Anglo news recently?
HavocXphere
Honorary Master
Wait, now I'm confused. Are the BEE deals there to redress past wrongs or to reward hard work?
Rewarding people based on hypothetical scenario. Innovative. But then why doesn't Sipho in the shack also get an alternate time-line & a few billion reward for it?
Realistically we have no way of knowing what could have been on a person-by-person basis. Consequently the only fair way to handle it is either giving every (qualifying) person the same amount of benefit, or those that need it the most. This system where the rich qualifying persons just get richer is not on.
Yes, I get that it wasn't fair. What I don't get is how creating a few millionaires is helping.
If we accept as a fact that BEE transactions will happen and its only a matter of who gets the shares, then logically the most impartial & unbiased are those who have no chance of participating, no?Sly21C said:
To me it makes little difference whether Sipho in the shack or Tokyo gets the shares, but I think it would be better for SA if Sipho got them. Hence I say so. And again...I've got nothing against Tokyo personally.WTF So you acknowledge that those who are supposed to benefit aren't....and you're fine with that?Sly21C said:
Seriously, I don't see how any South African can be fine with that, regardless of skin colour.DarkStreet
Expert Member
By forcing these individuals into positions for which they are not qualified?
In fact people of any colour who earn less than 5 grand a month or whatever "low income" figure they pick. Why not enrich the poor of this country? It's incredibly ignorant to think that no whites are poor.
While admirable, enriching the poor breeds lethargy and laziness, and a culture of reliance on the state. Look at the UK, where kids are literally paid to breed.
And you cannot base it on income alone - you have to base it on an individual's net worth. Some of the richest men in the world do not derive and income at all...
Yes my parents worked their asses off to put me through school, in fact they are still working every day long past retirement age. Damn them!!! How dare they?!
The poor people you are referring to are not the ones benefiting from BEE. The Tokyo's and Cyrils are benefiting. In the space of 10 years they are amongst the wealthiest in SA, yet they still benefit from BEE. I have no problem with BEE when the correct people receive the benefit, but currently Tokyo and Cyrils kids will qualify for BEE benefits.... Not because they are needy but because they are black. That is just as wrong as Apartheid was. What happened to the rainbow nation where everybody is equal?
Sadly South Africa is the biggest welfare nation in the world. We are continuously rewarding those who stay at home, instead of creating jobs for them and building a sustainable society.