MTN R8.1 billion BEE transaction

Its 2010 already... when is BEE going to stop?
BEE on jobs up to know I can understand, but BEE on selling shares is nonsense.
 
DJ... said:
While admirable, enriching the poor breeds lethargy and laziness, and a culture of reliance on the state. Look at the UK, where kids are literally paid to breed.

And you cannot base it on income alone - you have to base it on an individual's net worth. Some of the richest men in the world do not derive and income at all...
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100% on the net worth thing, I even had a small thought of exploiting it when I typed it but yes of course they would need to put in some measures to make sure the "low income" people don't have millions of rands and assets sitting in trust funds and business entities... giving the poor shares in a company is not as bad as the UK, they can still lose it all if MTN goes bust - does require a bit of thought; even if they're instantly making a huge profit by buying them at such low prices.
 
is luke watson allowed to buy shares?

what about me? my family has suspicions about when my gran and her family lived in kenya. i also have an indian fiancé.

my folks also worked their asses off to give us a house, school, clothes, etc. we didn't even have coco pops. i believe the government owes me for that.
 
gerasmus said:
How does one qualify to be 'black' ?
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I'm going to buy some of these shares. There's no way to prove that I'm not black. The only way to get rid of the skewed way transformation is implemented, is to show how silly it is. If white people reclassify themselves as black, by taking part in deals like this, the powers that be will soon have to change the criteria to help the people that really need it, the poor.
 
didn't a woman from somewhere have that argument with sasol/nedbank/standard ****? she claimed that somewhere in the past someone diddled someone else and therefore she wasn't white.
 
Wyzak said:
If you become wealthy hardworking and successful at the expense of others who are working just as hard as you just because you are of darker skin colour. Then yes it should be a crime.
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Yes obviously(as to apartheid), but that's not what I was talking about right there. And oe can't really say that one person is working 'harder' than the other, either. The free market (you either want the service/product or you don't, it doesn't matter who the seller is) has to decide.
 
roberth said:
This article is incorrect. Phakamisa Ndzamela doesn't have a clue whats happening.
MTN are selling shares in its BEE special purpose vehicle, BIC, for R20. BIC will then use the money raised to buy MTN shares at R107.46 (the 20-trading day volume weighted average price of an MTN share). So you will need to buy 5.4 BIC shares to effectively hold 1 MTN share.
So for e.g. if only 6 BIC shares are sold (6*R20=R120), then BIC can only afford 1 MTN share (at R107.46), and then the dividends from that 1 MTN share will be split to pay the 6 BIC shareholders. So you aren't buying 1 MTN share for R20, you are buying 1/6th of an MTN share, and you will probably end up worse off because there will be other costs associated with BIC which they will take from the MTN dividends that they receive.
And the R107.46 that BIC are paying for a MTN share is the 20-trading day volume weighted average price of an MTN share, so anybody could have bought MTN shares at around that price on the JSE in the last 20 trading days, so the BEE guys who participate here aren't actually getting much extra value.
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very intersting, i have not read deep into this.

But will all my R20 shares frog still directly convert into a princess real stock market share after 6 years?
 
so we wont receive dividends for our shares that equal normal price shares?
 
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Hopefully in 100 years people will look back and realize that BEE and apartheid is one and the same...

if i read phenoms responcse and remarks on moneyweb this deal no longer looks so enticing...
 
Can the people who are bickering over this please read roberth's post.
He is correct, the article is extremely badly written. R20 entitles one to BIC shares which have access to MTN shares at R107
THAT IS NOT 80% DISCOUNT.

The rest of the amount has to be financed throughout the 6 year lock in period by growth/dividends and what not but it does NOT guarantee that a BIC share will convert to a MTN share.
 
If a IC share does not convert, do you get your money back?
What if the shares are over paid off with the dividends?
 
DJ... said:
No...



I don't understand the question...
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What if the MTN dividends received in this period are larger than what it would take to pay off the difference?
 
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phenom said:
What if the MTN dividends received in this period are larger than what it would take to pay off the difference?
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My understanding is that you are buying the shares for R107 regardless of the share price movement over the next 6 years. You take the risk and therefore the reward too. My guess is the company would increase its fees though...;)
 
Dr3xus said:
Can the people who are bickering over this please read roberth's post.
He is correct, the article is extremely badly written. R20 entitles one to BIC shares which have access to MTN shares at R107
THAT IS NOT 80% DISCOUNT.

The rest of the amount has to be financed throughout the 6 year lock in period by growth/dividends and what not but it does NOT guarantee that a BIC share will convert to a MTN share.
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I also thought it was an 82% discount, well now I know that they are offered at R107 so I will therefore not be participating in that scheme. I'll rather buy MTN shares directly on the JSE like I always do, in fact I made about R2000 in two days after MTN's share price rose the past few days :), too bad I sold early :(.

I don't think my fellow white people need to complain about this scheme, there ain't no 82% discount like that flipping journalist suggested yesterday.
 
DJ... said:
My understanding is that you are buying the shares for R107 regardless of the share price movement over the next 6 years. You take the risk and therefore the reward too. My guess is the company would increase its fees though...;)
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With YeboYethu (Vodacom's BBBEE vehicle), you still get a small dividend every year, and the balance pays of the difference to get your discounted share to the one-for-one exchange value at the end of the agreed period.
 
Sly21C said:
I also thought it was an 82% discount, well now I know that they are offered at R107 so I will therefore not be participating in that scheme. I'll rather buy MTN shares directly on the JSE like I always do, in fact I made about R2000 in two days after MTN's share price rose the past few days :), too bad I sold early :(.

I don't think my fellow white people need to complain about this scheme, there ain't no 82% discount like that flipping journalist suggested yesterday.
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'Fellow white people' ? ? ? what is your intention by stating you are white? Who asked for that? Who cares? Your postings certainly suggest otherwise. You South Africans are so funny. The whites what to be non whites (or emigrate), while the non whites go at lengt to show how white they are. (taking white names, communicating in a white language) :D WTF Why is it so important to you the color your of skin? Ffs - Never could figure that one out . . .
 
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