Muslim extremism. Do they know something we don't?

[PeterCH]

I've been thinking a lot about the Muslim extremists and their fight against the West, especially the USA. America has been desperately trying to export this thing we call Democracy for years now. They lied to the entire world, started a war in Iraq based on false information, false and doctored satellite scans. Why? Democracy. Bush went on and on about a democratic and free Iraq. But how free is democracy? What is democracy according to the great US of A.

What's stopping Iraq from being free and fair? In-fighting. The people dying in Iraq since the conventional war ended are mostly being killed by their own - Muslim Iraqi on Muslim Iraqi violence, with some foreigners (Saudis, Syrians, Egyptians etc) thrown in. They need to stop this. The West can't do that for them.

Any of you from the US know the patriot act has allowed the US a free-for-all on its citizens, to spy on every single citizen, tapping your cellphone and email conversations, monitoring you're every movement with CCTV. They have dozens of satellites monitoring movements of vehicles and individuals.

It is worrying but it's not as bad as that yet. It's not nearly as bad as the forces opposing the West though.

If you are a non-white person, the police have full freedom to interrogate you including taking your personal details, recent whereabouts and if you don't comply they will arrest you.

Is this written in regulations or is this some sort of NAACP propaganda?

Even Russia has voiced strong opposition of America's defence program in Europe. I'm not anti-American or anti Muslim but I would like to start a serious discussion on just what these extremists see that perhaps we don't? Are they fighting an evil repressive giant in the making?

Russia is opposed to America's presence in countries which want it on the basis that Russia wants to bully its old Warsaw Pact satellites. It won't be able to bully them so much with US soldiers there. Russia's own human rights records are atrocious.

The ANC were labelled terrorists, hunted down like dogs, boots put on their throats and shot to death in the Apartheid days. They burned people to death in the streets. They blew up malls and police stations. They asassinated police officers and cut off the limbs of anybody who was seen as a sympathizer, poured acid on the open wounds and watched them bleed to death. Today they are heroes for fighting against an oppressive regime which had most of us brainwashed. How does this relate to Al'Qaida's struggle against the US who, in my opinion, seem to be a totalatarian state in the making.

Those who killed unarmed and innocent people were and are still terrorists. Nothing is stopping Al Quada from fighting the US army one on one, you know like in the Crusades. Killing innocent people is the coward's way. The last attempt was on Christmas Day. How is that as an insult to Christianity?
Will Muslim groups apologise for desecrating our Christmas?

The NP handed over power because the West told it to do so. Before the Soviet Union fell, the West supported the NP. This support would continue indefinitely. When the USSR died, it had no more reason to oppose a left wing black government taking over as the handlers were now gone with the rest of the USSR.

Their very leaders are part of secret societies, delving in occult, witchcraft and ancient druidism, manipulative and deceptive, guilty of torture of un-thinkable proportions in Gitmo. They export suspects to foreign countries like Lithuania to be tortured to death.

You don't know what torture is. Waterboarding is not torture.

Perhaps most of us would choose the USA with the notion that "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?"

Enemy of whom? Al Quada operatives are happy to end their own lives. They're also happy to kill people unconnected with their war. Screw them.

The US has a policy of not to negotiate with terrorists. Didn't the old SA racist government have same policy? Should they modify their policies in the middle east?

You do know that Al Quada makes up less than 1% of the population? Would you negotiate with a few extremists and sideline all the people in charge?
What sort of message would that send? Kill civilians and we'll talk with you?

Enter Israel, which is an entire topic on its own. My personal belief is that this all boils down to Israel and the USA and Israel. I am pro Israeli but my belief in Israel aligning itself with a warmongering country like the USA is most of their problem at the moment.

I don't think USA is warmongering at all. Many people would be of the opinion that Israel is far more prone to use of force then America. Israel is itching for example, to hit Iran at the moment.

As Safricans we've all experienced terrorism. My mall was blown to hell by people the world now labels as heroes. How will we view Muslim Extremits in years from now, as villains or as heroes?

You know the same thing was said of Hitler by the left in Europe in the 30s and even early 40s.

 

[plazma]

If waterboarding is not torture, then what is it?

Do you make this claim based on something in a medical textbook? If yes, name the book.

 

[PeterCH]

If waterboarding is not torture, then what is it?

Waterboarding is not torture compared to what other governments still employ and what the Warsaw Pact used to do to you.

Do you make this claim based on something in a medical textbook? If yes, name the book.

Medical textbook?

The treatment these guys from Gitmo would get in a US Federal Penitentiary would be far worse. If they let them live with the general population, you'd see them become wives of hardcore criminals, very quickly. Of course that still beats having your head lobbed off on camera or being stoned to death or being blown up by jihadists. Gitmo is like a holiday park. It's like the Copa Cabana.

 

[PeterCH]

Read any decent news website and see what is happening in Iran, Egypt, Pakistan or Yemen. Extremists are a microscopic minority of Muslims, the vast majority of which are ordinary people, just like you are. (unless you are a Christian fundamenatlist, of whom there are MILLIONS).

BTW, look up "Oklohama bombing", so you can learn that there are NO Christian terrosrists in the world.

I like how some people counter prejudice with their own prejudice. Some people think bigotry is ok, as long as it agrees with their POV.

McVeigh was no Christian fundamentalist. He didn't kill those people in the name of Christ but he was one of those loonies who want smaller government and more self determination. He was following Thomas Jefferson more than Jesus Christ unlike Al Quada who use Islam as an active tool to raise funds and inspire martyrs. Blame the US Founding Fathers and their Constitution more than Jesus Christ for Oklahoma for giving people revolutionary ideas.

 

[PeterCH]

JHatman, that is a very one sided look at things.

Your title: Muslim extremism. Do they know something we don't?

Nothing in your first post explains what they know that would compel a parent to make their child strap on explosives to go and kill a group of western civilians?

Explain what they know that makes them lust for the blood of innocent western civililans...

The thing is that these guys are mostly targetting their own. Part of that is because they can't get access to Westerners (better security at airports, fewer Westerners traveling to their areas) so they'll blow up a school in Pakistan or a market place in Iraq.

 

[Frankie]

Read any decent news website and see what is happening in Iran, Egypt, Pakistan or Yemen. Extremists are a microscopic minority of Muslims, the vast majority of which are ordinary people, just like you are. (unless you are a Christian fundamenatlist, of whom there are MILLIONS).

Minority , what a lie.
With the clerics /immans spewing their hatred and call to jihad against infidels and we are to believe that it's a small minority of Muslims ?
See my sig.

BTW, look up "Oklohama bombing", so you can learn that there are NO Christian terrosrists in the world.

Did he do it in the name of his religion, like the Islamists do? - NO.

Anyway, the west condemned that act and he was punished, which cant be said about the Muslims - they worship their suicide bombers that kill infidels.

 

[Frankie]

Would you admit that the USA is more successful than any Islamic state? Even with all the suppression that it does to it's own citizens, it still has more to offer it's citizens that any Islamic state has to offer.

There was an old cold war story, about how people in the communist world where always trying to get to the western world in large numbers, but the reverse was not true, in that people (any class) from the western world, where flocking to join the communist world. In fact, the only westerners that did this, were the "traitors" and spies, the common folk did not see the communist world as acceptable place to live.

The same is true today, Islamic's flock to the west, because of the freedom the west provides, both in personal freedom and the ability to better oneself. If this was not true, then we would find migration in the other way, which we don't. This IS a key indicator that the western or USA way of doing life is more appealing that the Islamic way.

On the "totalitarian state in the making", why go looking for spooks, when most, if not all, Islamic states are by default totalitarian states. The only difference, is that they, the Islamic states, generally do not have much high tech, to do this with, and usually rely on human Intel, to do their monitoring of "trouble makers", you know nosy neighbors and people who have grudges against others.

The evil giant is alive and running wild in the world today, and it's not the USA or the west. Would you expect to have a legal trail that you could follow of a wire tapping of your personal phone in the USA or an Islamic state? Could you expect to be able to contest such an action by the state, in the USA or in an Islamic state? Could you expect to have human treatment if you are arrested in the USA, could you expect the same in an Islamic state?

Yes, the USA does spy on it's citizens, it does do all these bad things, but generally, it's on folk who go against the accept way of the state. And there are agreed methods to do these bad things. If the majority of the USA disagreed with these methods, they would change fast.

Good post.

 

[Frankie]

When the news first broke of the recent failed attempt at bombing a US passenger jet, did you doubt what the perp's religious affiliation was? - I bet most had no doubt.

Notice the lack of Muslim participation in this thread:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?t=209342

 

[Alan]

Read any decent news website and see what is happening in Iran, Egypt, Pakistan or Yemen. Extremists are a microscopic minority of Muslims, the vast majority of which are ordinary people, just like you are. (unless you are a Christian fundamenatlist, of whom there are MILLIONS).

BTW, look up "Oklohama bombing", so you can learn that there are NO Christian terrosrists in the world.

There are a billion Muslims in the world. A "microscopic minority" is still a massive amount. Include complete control of entire countries like Iran and you've got a very serious problem. This decade alone they've killed tens of thousands or even a hundred thousand innocent people around the world

As for millions of Christian extremists could you provide some proof of Christians extremists running around suicide bombing markets, schools etc.

Timothy McVeigh didn't act in the name of religion. Ironically his justification for the attack is very similar to those used by Islamic extremists in terms of the U.S government "bullying", "crimes" etc.

The thing is that these guys are mostly targetting their own. Part of that is because they can't get access to Westerners (better security at airports, fewer Westerners traveling to their areas) so they'll blow up a school in Pakistan or a market place in Iraq.

Exactly the overwhelming majority of victims are Muslim. Yet the anger is directed mainly at the U.S and Israel

 

[plazma]

Christian extremists don't suicide-bomb markets in Baghdad, man.
They use smart bombs. They have Abrahams tanks. They have Marines, and Special Ops forces. And aircraft carriers. And drones. It even arrogantly dictates which other nations may make use of nuclear power!

Why do you fail to understand that the USA is the biggest terrorist state?
It invades other countries on the pretext that they have "weapons of mass destruction". Or can you tell me again just how exactly Sadam Hussein was a threat to the USA, or anyone else?
How about Korea?
Vietnam?

And does anyone know why the USA and its allies invaded Afghanistan? How did this backward country, halfway around the world, pose a threat to the USA?

You defenders of the USA are seriously naive. How many more 9-11's will it take for you to understand that your USA-type arrogance is unacceptable, and WILL be stopped by the likes of Bin-Laden, and all the followers that are sure to come?

 

[Balstrome]

You defenders of the USA are seriously naive. How many more 9-11's will it take for you to understand that your USA-type arrogance is unacceptable, and WILL be stopped by the likes of Bin-Laden, and all the followers that are sure to come?

Do you think that a rant like this one you have just given could be done in any those anti-usa countries that you mentioned, if the rant was directed at the country in question.

You are allowed and even protected here in the west to hold and say those points of view, something your islamic countries will not allow against them.

Another thing, each time you terrorist do these acts, you push your chances of convincing the west that you way is best, further out the door. Yes, we know you can not help that, being primitives that you are, but that does not change the facts, attack us and we will kill you, talk to us and we will listen.
We may not agree with you, but we will listen to what you have say, and expect that you listen to what we have to say. Otherwise we will bomb you back past the stone-age.

 

[PeterCH]

Christian extremists don't suicide-bomb markets in Baghdad, man.
They use smart bombs. They have Abrahams tanks. They have Marines, and Special Ops forces. And aircraft carriers. And drones. It even arrogantly dictates which other nations may make use of nuclear power!

In case you missed it, far more people are dying in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan from fellow locals blowing themselves up in suicide attacks than trigger happy Yanks letting lose from drones, machine guns etc. If oil money did not fund Al Quada and Pakistanis did not do the same earlier on, there would be peace now.

Why do you fail to understand that the USA is the biggest terrorist state?
It invades other countries on the pretext that they have "weapons of mass destruction". Or can you tell me again just how exactly Sadam Hussein was a threat to the USA, or anyone else?

Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait.

How about Korea?

The South Korean people WANT Americans to be there. Or do you wish to speak on their behalf too?

Vietnam?

War between super-powers.

And does anyone know why the USA and its allies invaded Afghanistan? How did this backward country, halfway around the world, pose a threat to the USA?

They should get out, I agree. Periodic air strikes against any factions targeting the USA would do it.

You defenders of the USA are seriously naive. How many more 9-11's will it take for you to understand that your USA-type arrogance is unacceptable, and WILL be stopped by the likes of Bin-Laden, and all the followers that are sure to come?

You do know that Bin Ladin is a fly to the West. If the West was serious, and if total war was on the cards, you do know that the Middle East would cease to exist, no? I hope it never gets to that though. You do know how America fought WW2 no, in Europe? They'd bomb the area first from airplanes, then bomb it again, then use artillery and then when all Germans were dead, march in.

BTW that attack on Christmas Day was pretty low. Many people have taken note of it though.

 

[Necuno]

The South Korean people WANT Americans to be there. Or do you wish to speak on their behalf too?

you seem to do it pretty well for some groups already

 

[plazma]

The infidel reveals his ignorance, thank you my friend. Please don't bomb us again, we are already in the stone age.

And you will be too, soon.

 

[PeterCH]

The infidel reveals his ignorance, thank you my friend. Please don't bomb us again, we are already in the stone age.

And you will be too, soon.

I don't think you know what stone age is and the latter as you suggest will never happen, the former - is up to you.

 

[PeterCH]

you seem to do it pretty well for some groups already

Where?

The South Koreans and Japanese could be rid of the Americans ages ago if they wanted to.

 

[Necuno]

Where?

The South Koreans and Japanese could be rid of the Americans ages ago if they wanted to.

Where?
On cleverbot.
The South Koreans and Japanese could be rid of the Americans ages ago if they wanted to.
What is it known for then?

 

[PeterCH]

Where?
On cleverbot.
The South Koreans and Japanese could be rid of the Americans ages ago if they wanted to.
What is it known for then?

???

 

[Necuno]

???

???
I want to like me.

 

[MidnightWizard]

TROLL ???????

I've been thinking a lot about the Muslim extremists and their fight against the West, especially the USA.
I am pro Israeli but my belief in Israel aligning itself with a warmongering country like the USA is most of their problem at the moment.

Mr "Hatman" -- WHICH hat are you wearing today

I see that you have started another of these -- lets all come out and play threads. :erm:

I have no idea why you should be "pro-Israeli" ????

WHAT have they ever done for the SA Citizen apart from being behind the ANC and SACP.

As Safricans we've all experienced terrorism. My mall was blown to hell by people the world now labels as heroes. How will we view Muslim Extremits in years from now, as villains or as heroes?

Weellll why not do a bit of research on these SA TERRORISTS -- the info is all out there if you just took the time to do some research. ( But it looks to me as if you have your OWN agendas )

I am just busy reading Joe Slovo's book [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Slovo-Unfinished-Autobiography-ANC-leader/dp/1875284958] "The Unfinished Biography" [/ame] -- see if you can find a copy :erm:

You should read it together with this book [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Jews-South-Africa-Illustrated-History/dp/186842281X] The Jews in South Africa: An Illustrated History (Hardcover) [/ame]

You should then have a look here Jewish Studies Library

and

here --> Kaplan Centre

See if you can find the "Holocaust-Museum" in Cape Town -- WTF we need one here I have NO idea

I keep on asking myself -- after so much blood sweat and tears -- the state of ISRAEL now exists and is extant.

WHY

have all the Jews NOT gone home.

WHY

When they constitute such a small percentage of the demographics of SA we have specified RACIALLY exclusive organisations for them.
and
WHY they are so overwhelmingly represented at the top of all important organisations in SA.

Look in the previous two books I have mentioned -- there are LOTS more.


Perhaps this is what some of the other people in the World can see. ( including orthodox Jews who went to IRAN for the conference on the Holocaust )

Jewish Supremacists

In order to satisfy yourself why not do some of your OWN research.


MW