Muslim extremism. Do they know something we don't?

[PeterCH]

The Greeks came up with a ‘plain vanilla’ ‘Representative Democracy’ which (with minor modifications) the world practises (this means the electorate votes for ‘representatives’ [read fatcats] to represent their interests).An evolutionary step in democracy would comprise:

With advances in technology it has become possible to have ‘Participatory Democracy’ (Democracy+) where each individual can vote directly on their interests. The ‘Representative’ fatcats will fight this tooth & nail because it will erode their power. Politician’s power will be diminished considerably when a referendum on almost anything can be held frequently and cheaply (and accurately, with little corruption).

So who has the time to read up about these issues. If a referendum is to be held, how do we common plebs and non-experts decide what is good? We rely on people to inform us. Who informs us then? Will they provide us with clear info in a non-biased way that remember is non-biased to everyone? Secondly who has the time to read it all and decide. Thirdly, how long will decisions take to be made? Who will decide what is more important to vote on? Unless you can stop time or let everyone live for a 1000 years, not have to work, make them all intelligent (reasonably), let them not be swayed to pundits and marketers - how will this work? You'll have to change human nature.

IMO democracy is on the threshold of a ginormous evolutionary step. It will be implemented via cell phones. The requirement for this enhancement to democracy+, would be significant cell phone penetration, a sophisticated infrastructure and the knowledge (and political will) to implement the system. SA might have the penetration but it lacks the other requirements. It will probably occur first in a Northern European country (Nokia, Ericson, progressive electorate etc.).

People in North European countries also vote the least. Again, same problem, who will decide what gets voted on, how do we make an informed decision and who has the time or the interest to become involved enought to get the facts. We elect reps on our behalf to do that nowadays. How long will this be? What will the efficiency be like? UTOPIA. It won't work, ever.

Consider – one vote per cell phone (protected by a PIN), a centralised database verifying that the number belongs to a citizen of the country (and other voting requirements). A computerised count of the votes (minimises corruption) and (the future main duty of politicians) an announcement of the results – even this can be delegated to the cell phone with the politician expected to simply implement the results.

Why have politicians then? Why not just relay the result to the relevant department. People voted for a new bridge - message sent to the Ministry of Construction and voila ....

The advantage here is that there is a path of graceful degradation. If a society cannot practise the technology enhanced Democracy + they degrade to the standard, plain vanilla democracy.

UTOPIA. It will never work. Maybe one day when we're all connected by one big neural net and have free floating consciousnesses. By that time, we've lost our sense of individuality and we'll be one huge brain. Maybe in a 1000 years.

 

[Lightscribe]

A computerised count of the votes (minimises corruption)

Like those that Bush organised? When a democratic vote was entered it would, as per it's programming, deliver a result as being republican...for the majority of the "democratic" votes.

Ja, I trust a machine...when I cannot even trust the human count...

 

[MidnightWizard]

REALLYYYYY !!!!!

UTOPIA. It will never work. Maybe one day when we're all connected by one big neural net and have free floating consciousnesses.
By that time, we've lost our sense of individuality and we'll be one huge brain.
Maybe in a 1000 years.

Peter -- I notice you berate others about their ignorance -- ready to take your own medicine ?????

We DO have a functioning PARTICIPATORY democratic system in everyday use.

Try looking up the SWISS CANTONS


MW

 

[WilD_CaT]

IMO democracy is on the threshold of a ginormous evolutionary step. It will be implemented via cell phones. The requirement for this enhancement to democracy+, would be significant cell phone penetration, a sophisticated infrastructure and the knowledge (and political will) to implement the system. SA might have the penetration but it lacks the other requirements. It will probably occur first in a Northern European country (Nokia, Ericson, progressive electorate etc.).

Democracy means rule by the people. In reality it means rule by majority.

The majority tends to get what it wants at the expense of the minority.

Democracy is a farce. Majority rule means nothing. Hitler was initially democratically elected for pete's sake.

The majority of people are stupid and uneducated and even if they are "formally" educated, most people don't look into economics, political science and philosophy, so they are still "dumb masses" of people who will vote for the things that favour them. The tend not to care about other people or policies that will hurt others as long as it benefits them.

How about freedom as the answer? Or in political terms "anarchy" which doesn't mean chaos, it mean rule by no one.

I would rather live in a society where property rights are respected and people have no "rulers" that dictate to them what they can and cannot do, than the farce of democratic freedom where my rights are infringed on a day-to-day basis to benefit the "majority".

 

[Ockie]

The infidel reveals his ignorance, thank you my friend. Please don't bomb us again, we are already in the stone age.

And you will be too, soon.

It is comments and "threats" like this that stands out and gets noticed...and yet another reason why Islam is seen as a religion of destruction and hate.

 

[WilD_CaT]

I don't know, I live in a a suburb where within a 1km radius from my house I have 3 Christian churches, 1 Jewish synagogue and 1 Muslim mosque (Huge new one) and a fair amount of people in my high school were muslim (30% or more and growing)

Never had any problem with muslims and I love the muslim shop where I get my hubbly tobacco from!

Maybe its because we don't seem to condemn/bomb muslims here in South Africa that we don't have confrontation as much as elsewhere. We don't have mobs of "yobs" like in Britain going up to muslim mosques calling them ragheads and killers etc.

We tend to just leave em alone as long as they leave us alone.

 

[Frankie]

A little insight into why you wont see any freedom of religion permitted in Islamic states, like they expect when in the West.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLEJf-t1VkY&feature=related[/ame]

 

[WilD_CaT]

All religions and even athiesm is condemned by certain members of society.

 

[Frankie]

All religions and even athiesm is condemned by certain members of society.

And your point is ?

 

[WilD_CaT]

Putting up videos of extremists and then saying thats bad doesnt add anything to the debate.

 

[plazma]

It is comments and "threats" like this that stands out and gets noticed...and yet another reason why Islam is seen as a religion of destruction and hate.

What threat?? I simply stated the obvious, namely that the USA is going down the sewer.

Indeed, it is not even necessary for anyone to wage war against the USA. Look at how it destroys itself:

- National Debt has continued to increase an average of $3.81 billion per day since September 28, 2007 The USA is financially bankrupt and will catastrophically crash in the near future. The current DEFICIT is $1.42 trillion! Just think about this for a minute. Ask an economist what the implications of this are...

- Waging aggressive war in several countries, and acquiring new enemies every week. Google "Yemen" and see what I mean. The USA is losing the war in Afghanistan, as it did in Iraq. (btw, nobody has answered the question I posed about those WMD). I hope some of you can see the link between the wars the USA has engaged upon, and its debt deficit.
If you cannot, then ask yourself why the 2 countries that "lost" the 2nd world war, Germany and Japan, are in the powerful economic positions they occupy today. It's simple - the best way to kick-start an ailing economy is to make war.

You guys who think the USA is so cool must keep in mind that the USA has been a political, economic and military bully since WW2 stopped.
It has millions of enemies all over the world. And not all of them are Muslims, either. Think "Venezuela". Keep on thinking - there are many more.

Today, every 4th citizen of the USA is Spanish speaking. The Caucasian, English, republican USA you are defending has virtually evolved out of existence. A few die-hard war-mongers are desperately trying to keep it in power, but they have lost their grip. (Think "Obama").

Every super-power the world has known, eventually disappeared. Rome, the Turks, the Huns, the Aztecs, the USSR...

 

[Frankie]

It has millions of enemies all over the world. And not all of them are Muslims, either. Think "Venezuela". Keep on thinking - there are many more.

They sure seem to have a good deal in common, rouge states ruled by despots.

Why do you find so many Muslims and other's trying to emigrate to the US, and not the other way around?

 

[Freshy-ZN]

Why do you find so many Muslims and other's trying to emigrate to the US, and not the other way around?

The answer to that one is simple: to increase the Islamic population. No other answer makes sense! Aside from a few genuine cases of asylum it makes no sense for a follower of Islam to want to move to a place where his Islamic law is not (yet) the law of the land.

 

[Alan]

A little insight into why you wont see any freedom of religion permitted in Islamic states, like they expect when in the West.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLEJf-t1VkY&feature=related

Dr Naik

:erm:

 

[capetownguy]

The answer to that one is simple: to increase the Islamic population. No other answer makes sense! Aside from a few genuine cases of asylum it makes no sense for a follower of Islam to want to move to a place where his Islamic law is not (yet) the law of the land.

Not even Muslims want to live under Shariah Law.

Its not like Muslims go around South Africa stoning women who need stoning for reasons provided under Shariah Law.

 

[zippy]

The US has a policy of not to negotiate with terrorists. Didn't the old SA racist government have same policy? Should they modify their policies in the middle east?
?

Most, if not all Muslim states have the same policy regarding those that they percieve as terrorists.

This conflict will only end when Muslims agree that Jews and Christians arent evil and when Jews and Christians agree that Muslims arent evil. And when they come close, all you need is one retard from either side to set it all back again.

Cant see that happening anytime soon. But then again nobody thought they would see the end of the cold war, apartheid or a black American president in their life time either. So you never know.

 

[zippy]

Every super-power the world has known, eventually disappeared. Rome, the Turks, the Huns, the Aztecs, the USSR...

Dont think you can compare the USA to these. Rome, Turks, etc., had 1 major disadvantage. They where dictatorships. You only had to defeat the dictatorship.

The USA just reinvents itself all the time. One day their enemy's are burning effigies of George Bush, then suddenly they put a dude with name like "Obama" in charge. Those chants of "White racists" suddenly sound stupid.

The USA wont disappear. It will just change a bit.

Rome, etc., failed because they could not change. Its why all dictatorships fail. Hopefully one day, the West will learn this lesson. They dont need to invade them. Just contain them. Any society which blows up its women and children is doomed to failure. Just keep the explosions far away.

 

[Lightscribe]

Dont think you can compare the USA to these. Rome, Turks, etc., had 1 major disadvantage. They where dictatorships. You only had to defeat the dictatorship.

The USA just reinvents itself all the time. One day their enemy's are burning effigies of George Bush, then suddenly they put a dude with name like "Obama" in charge. Those chants of "White racists" suddenly sound stupid.

The USA wont disappear. It will just change a bit.

Rome, etc., failed because they could not change. Its why all dictatorships fail. Hopefully one day, the West will learn this lesson. They dont need to invade them. Just contain them. Any society which blows up its women and children is doomed to failure. Just keep the explosions far away.

Nice Insight.

 

[JustAsk]

What threat?? I simply stated the obvious, namely that the USA is going down the sewer.

Indeed, it is not even necessary for anyone to wage war against the USA. Look at how it destroys itself:

- National Debt has continued to increase an average of $3.81 billion per day since September 28, 2007 The USA is financially bankrupt and will catastrophically crash in the near future. The current DEFICIT is $1.42 trillion! Just think about this for a minute. Ask an economist what the implications of this are...

- Waging aggressive war in several countries, and acquiring new enemies every week. Google "Yemen" and see what I mean. The USA is losing the war in Afghanistan, as it did in Iraq. (btw, nobody has answered the question I posed about those WMD). I hope some of you can see the link between the wars the USA has engaged upon, and its debt deficit.
If you cannot, then ask yourself why the 2 countries that "lost" the 2nd world war, Germany and Japan, are in the powerful economic positions they occupy today. It's simple - the best way to kick-start an ailing economy is to make war.

You guys who think the USA is so cool must keep in mind that the USA has been a political, economic and military bully since WW2 stopped.
It has millions of enemies all over the world. And not all of them are Muslims, either. Think "Venezuela". Keep on thinking - there are many more.

Today, every 4th citizen of the USA is Spanish speaking. The Caucasian, English, republican USA you are defending has virtually evolved out of existence. A few die-hard war-mongers are desperately trying to keep it in power, but they have lost their grip. (Think "Obama").

Every super-power the world has known, eventually disappeared. Rome, the Turks, the Huns, the Aztecs, the USSR...

At last,someone who can actually think for him/herself.

 

[JustAsk]

They sure seem to have a good deal in common, rouge states ruled by despots.

Why do you find so many Muslims and other's trying to emigrate to the US, and not the other way around?

You haven't figured that out yet,Frankie?

Dont think you can compare the USA to these. Rome, Turks, etc., had 1 major disadvantage. They where dictatorships. You only had to defeat the dictatorship.

The USA just reinvents itself all the time. One day their enemy's are burning effigies of George Bush, then suddenly they put a dude with name like "Obama" in charge. Those chants of "White racists" suddenly sound stupid.

The USA wont disappear. It will just change a bit.

Rome, etc., failed because they could not change. Its why all dictatorships fail. Hopefully one day, the West will learn this lesson. They dont need to invade them. Just contain them. Any society which blows up its women and children is doomed to failure. Just keep the explosions far away.

The usa is a dictatorship sold as a democracy...more specific, a controlled democracy.Any country where the majority vote don't counts is not a democracy.

They desperately try to move away from their version of democracy because they realise its been used against them.They are moving to a police state with "the war on terror" as scapegoat.