MWEB - Message from CEO - Acceptable Use Policy

[Necuno]

Angellus, yours are in

 

[Necuno]

very end of my quick question list
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...e-Use-Policy?p=4394052&viewfull=1#post4394052

 

[SabreWolfy]

By the relevant ISP (read MWEB) underinvesting in bandwidth and overselling their product (something they were in fact warned about months ago).

Rubbish. They've been open about shaping since the product was launched.

 

[Tanya35]

Rubbish. They've been open about shaping since the product was launched.

I don't think you are addressing his statement at all. Mweb have increased the shaping since they launched. They also won't discuss when it is applies and in what strength. Is that being open??

 

[Tharaxis]

I don't think you are addressing his statement at all. Mweb have increased the shaping since they launched. They also won't discuss when it is applies and in what strength. Is that being open??

In fact the exact opposite is true, M-Web has stated in at least 2 separate instances that the shaping rules themselves haven't changed at all since launch. What has potentially changed is how much bandwidth M-Web has provisioned for each user which can result in that shaping have a far greater effect than before, and I have a feeling it all really comes down to cost and also the abusers eating up a large(ish) percentage of the bandwidth that should be shared with others.

 

[Tanya35]

In fact the exact opposite is true, M-Web has stated in at least 2 separate instances that the shaping rules themselves haven't changed at all since launch. What has potentially changed is how much bandwidth M-Web has provisioned for each user which can result in that shaping have a far greater effect than before, and I have a feeling it all really comes down to cost and also the abusers eating up a large(ish) percentage of the bandwidth that should be shared with others.

We don't know what they're up to if they aren't open about it. The effect is the same. I somehow doubt that a "handful" of abusers is to blame for heavy shaping. (Mweb's word)

 

[milomak]

In fact the exact opposite is true, M-Web has stated in at least 2 separate instances that the shaping rules themselves haven't changed at all since launch. What has potentially changed is how much bandwidth M-Web has provisioned for each user which can result in that shaping have a far greater effect than before, and I have a feeling it all really comes down to cost and also the abusers eating up a large(ish) percentage of the bandwidth that should be shared with others.

that seems far worse to me. cause it seems to say they were caught off guards by the numbers of users who would take up the offer. and even worse they didn't anticipate how users would use uncapped. i'd been on axxess uncapped for about 18 months prior to coming to mweb and i saw what the top users were doing. mweb didn't think that they would experience a similar load? that says a ot about if so.

 

[Tharaxis]

that seems far worse to me. cause it seems to say they were caught off guards by the numbers of users who would take up the offer. and even worse they didn't anticipate how users would use uncapped. i'd been on axxess uncapped for about 18 months prior to coming to mweb and i saw what the top users were doing. mweb didn't think that they would experience a similar load? that says a ot about if so.

I think cost to provide the service might play a big part in that... I've heard that M-Web has seen itself significantly ahead of projections wrt their bandwidth provisioning, which would also throw out some costing models, they may be seeing less profitability than originally expected.

 

[Tharaxis]

We don't know what they're up to if they aren't open about it. The effect is the same. I somehow doubt that a "handful" of abusers is to blame for heavy shaping. (Mweb's word)

Well, you see, that's exactly why it's impossible to have any coherent conversation wrt these issues. The only time you'll begin believing M-Web is when they tell you what you want to hear. Additionally, your doubt regarding a handful of abusers being to blame is based on a lack of understanding as to how networks like these run - it's *very* possible for a small percentage of your overall user base to cause significant issues for others.

 

[milomak]

I think cost to provide the service might play a big part in that... I've heard that M-Web has seen itself significantly ahead of projections wrt their bandwidth provisioning, which would also throw out some costing models, they may be seeing less profitability than originally expected.

well that's a given seeing what has been happening. you seem in any event to be agreeing with me that they had no idea their network would be as oversubscribed as it is (i do not now this to be fact; but i strongly suspect it).

which seems to suggest again that service providers are seemingly out of touch with what the consumer base wants. maybe what the likes of SAOL and Cybersmart said re uncapped is true.

At least it points to one specific thing - Telkom.

And if our ISPs can't sell why Telkom has hindered economic growth; then they are more useless than we belive.

 

[I am Penguin]

Wow this thread has turned into a cesspool of absolutely pointless conversation.

Thanks mybroadband users!

You again just made the list! Preaching much?

 

[Fudzy]

Fudzy, go play with a hosepipe.
Really seems more within your level of understanding.

Why the hell should we do searching for you?

I can remember offhand 3 users in this very 67-page thread that received no warning or letters, simply got home, tried to open a page and got "Your account has been suspended".

End of.
Look through it yourself.
Douche.

I'm sorry but what what hole did you crawl out of? Did a search for "banned" by it self, seems there was a user king_kraig who stopped after using 500gb. It's a bit silly to think that account suspension means its banned. I'm sure if you phoned and were reasonable you would be able to work out a win-win solution.

 

[Lord Anubis]

Wow 500gb is a lot of Linux distro's

 

[MWEBHelp]

MWEB: International Bandwidth Update

We completed our cutover to the Seacom cable in the early hours of this morning and everything looks to be working fine. We'll continue to monitor closely but so far it's looking good.

Kind Regards
MWEB Operations

 

[wheunis]

I'm sorry but what what hole did you crawl out of? Did a search for "banned" by it self, seems there was a user king_kraig who stopped after using 500gb. It's a bit silly to think that account suspension means its banned. I'm sure if you phoned and were reasonable you would be able to work out a win-win solution.

What hole? My mother's, but I don't see how thats any of your business.

king_craig and bierman both.
I believe it was bierman who only used Megaupload, or maybe that was kraig... Unknown to him that the site used "backup" ports incase your ISP uses NAT.

kraig did try to contact them and clarify his issue, and the short version of what he got back: "STFU and GTFO".


So. Seeing as you're so interested in crawling around in holes, I suggest you go give another try at playing with that hosepipe.

 

[Necuno]

We completed our cutover to the Seacom cable in the early hours of this morning and everything looks to be working fine. We'll continue to monitor closely but so far it's looking good.

Kind Regards
MWEB Operations

thank you, but still waiting on :

mr MWEB Operations,

1) please tell if we are going to see the "reworked t&c" that was discussed by mweb on thuesday 20/07/2010.
2) from your reply below a rational interpretation would be that using a seed box now and then without being hours at end on it is acceptable.
3) continues downloads by steam will this be flagged too ?

Good evening ladies and gents

I see there has been quite a lot of debate regarding "the call". Please note that I limit my posts to clarifying specific issues from time to time if I feel that it can add some value. I'm also not going to discuss the specifics of individual customers who have been contacted regarding abuse, this is a matter between MWEB and the customer so please do not expect me to respond to questions about what customer X did, or didn’t do.

I would like to clarify a few points based on recent comments and re-emphasize some of my previous comments.

There is a lot of speculation going on about whether we are looking at a gigabyte limit, or some other such arbitrary rule to determine who is 'abusive'. Let me state again, we are looking at behaviour over an extended period of time and we are considering factors such as:

· repeated incidents of long periods of uninterrupted downloading at high speeds.
· the use of various techniques which allow vast amounts of traffic to be transferred at line, or near line speeds for extended periods of time.
This includes vpns and tunnelled http traffic from commercial seedbox services (thanks Venificus for describing the methods used by these services earlier).

Customers found to be making extensive use of ‘unshaping techniques’ will not be given a second chance.
These are the actions of an Internet savvy user who has gone to some lengths to optimize their downloading experience, not someone who stumbled on a faster way to download by pure chance.
These users are having a very real impact on the integrity of the network and service delivery to the vast majority of our customers is the first priority here.

This is not a process that is going to affect normal reasonable Internet users. The handful of people being affected by this know that they are pushing the envelope trying to continuously download as much as possible, as fast as possible. This isn’t what our shaped product was designed for and we quite simply cannot allow it be used in this way.

Kind Regards
MWEB Operations (Tech Manager)

and :

Good evening ladies and gents

................
This is not a process that is going to affect normal reasonable Internet users.

Kind Regards
MWEB Operations (Tech Manager)

Just explain the above. Does that mean the norm, as was many times before advertised by MWEB, E-mails, browsing and the "occasional" download? Fact is what you say, advertise and do are very different ambiguous and very unclear. Just say you cannot seem to deliver what you promise.
regards people using means to bypass your shaping you have a point. Thus block those systems not the user. It is obvious that people will use P2P, news servers and some other means to get the maximum benefit from the system they purchase. To come with crap like you ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DOWNLOAD 24/7 and YOU ADVERTISE "ALL THE DATA YOU NEED" That is just plain stupid, and you know it. You stuffed up and cannot deliver it seems. Now you come with all this Draconian Shiite you want to enforce. Just alter your products and we will choose our ISP's accordingly.

Get real! IN the beginning uncapped users will enjoy the Internet more as they experience what they could never before. Thus later the fad will wear off and data usage should reduce. You should not run your business concept on that hope as you have to ass-sume that every user will maximize their benefit. As long as they do not crook and bypass your safeguards (whatever that may be) keep your toys in your cot.

and :

Kindly provide us with a amount considered 'fair usage'
Or can you not do this without violating your sacred 'uncapped' statements
I was told if you average 250gig+ over three months you will be flagged

and :

Good evening ladies and gents

I see there has been quite a lot of debate regarding "the call". Please note that I limit my posts to clarifying specific issues from time to time if I feel that it can add some value. I'm also not going to discuss the specifics of individual customers who have been contacted regarding abuse, this is a matter between MWEB and the customer so please do not expect me to respond to questions about what customer X did, or didn’t do.

I would like to clarify a few points based on recent comments and re-emphasize some of my previous comments.

There is a lot of speculation going on about whether we are looking at a gigabyte limit, or some other such arbitrary rule to determine who is 'abusive'. Let me state again, we are looking at behaviour over an extended period of time and we are considering factors such as:

· repeated incidents of long periods of uninterrupted downloading at high speeds.
· the use of various techniques which allow vast amounts of traffic to be transferred at line, or near line speeds for extended periods of time.
This includes vpns and tunnelled http traffic from commercial seedbox services (thanks Venificus for describing the methods used by these services earlier).

Customers found to be making extensive use of ‘unshaping techniques’ will not be given a second chance.
These are the actions of an Internet savvy user who has gone to some lengths to optimize their downloading experience, not someone who stumbled on a faster way to download by pure chance.
These users are having a very real impact on the integrity of the network and service delivery to the vast majority of our customers is the first priority here.

This is not a process that is going to affect normal reasonable Internet users. The handful of people being affected by this know that they are pushing the envelope trying to continuously download as much as possible, as fast as possible. This isn’t what our shaped product was designed for and we quite simply cannot allow it be used in this way.

Kind Regards
MWEB Operations (Tech Manager)

*Going to ask this again to see if I get a reponse

Thanks for atleast trying to keep your users up to date on the forums, I for one appreciate it a lot.

I do have a very important question that I would like to get some clarity on and a straight answer would be much appreciated.

Will using Rapidshare/Megaupload/Megashares/Hotfile etc. mostly after hours(7pm-7am) be considered abuse as is indicated in the bolded part above? These services are very obviously shaped by mweb to nothing during the day so I would assume since you do this that using these services will not be considered abuse?

Would doing 150gb-300gb MAX per month with this method get a person into a position where they would get "The Call"?

It's a little frustrating not knowing exactly what is allowed and what not.

 

[xrapidx]

We completed our cutover to the Seacom cable in the early hours of this morning and everything looks to be working fine. We'll continue to monitor closely but so far it's looking good.

Kind Regards
MWEB Operations

I've noticed an improvement.

 

[Tanya35]

Well, you see, that's exactly why it's impossible to have any coherent conversation wrt these issues. The only time you'll begin believing M-Web is when they tell you what you want to hear. Additionally, your doubt regarding a handful of abusers being to blame is based on a lack of understanding as to how networks like these run - it's *very* possible for a small percentage of your overall user base to cause significant issues for others.

Perhaps you would like to explain how a handful of users can affect the shaping?

 

[Tharaxis]

which seems to suggest again that service providers are seemingly out of touch with what the consumer base wants.

I agree, many ISP's seem to be under the impression that your average consumer wants to just browse and read e-mail, at least that seems to be consistently how they describe your "average user". The thing is, your "average user" who wants to read e-mail and browse is not really willing to pay more than R 30-50 p/m to do so, let alone needing things such as data services with huge or unlimited caps.

 

[Vrotappel]

We completed our cutover to the Seacom cable in the early hours of this morning and everything looks to be working fine. We'll continue to monitor closely but so far it's looking good.

Kind Regards
MWEB Operations

So when do the excessive shaping on usenet stop? I expect to get close to full speed on a Saturday.