MWEB Uncapped ADSL - Official Q & A

[bradlesliect]

What speed are you getting on average on your line? For what protocols and ports? Can you *definitively* trace the problem to be the *sole* and *exclusive* responsibility of MWeb? Can you confirm that *MWeb* in fact *guarantees* a particular line speed over the Telkom ADSL (the last kilometer is beyond MWeb's control)? Have you confirmed the Telkom ADSL terms and conditions regarding guaranteed line speeds?

You are clearly on another planet either that or you have not been following all the many threads of posts about the QoS, slow speeds, throttling, shaping, etc and each and every thread has been based on .....wait for it....... FACT ....ABSOLUTE fact! Do you really want me/us to cover all that again? In fact, I remember seeing your nick on some of the posts and ....wait for it.... you were actually AGREEING to some of what was being said, why the sudden change of heart? Did someone from MWEB get to you? Did they promise you something? I have a sneaky suspicion they did.

FACTS:
- When using another ISP, connections are at max
- When using an MWEB capped account, connections are at max
- When using an capped MWEB account, your IP address is from a different pool of addresses
- When using MWEB capped account there is no throttling (24x7x365)
- How many more complaints, speedtest results, traceroutes, pings is need to show problem

AND THE ULTIMATE FACT ....MWEB HAS ADMITTED THERE IS A PROBLEM(not in so many words) but they have indicated that they have underestimated the DEMAND for bandwith.

....i rest my case....

 

[bradlesliect]

I think this thread is getting out of hand - can we not have a thread that only ISP reps can post in? We can have a discussion thread on which they may reply if they get to it. Asking the reps to post answers to each and every one of the tons of posts is getting a bit hectic. Anyhoo.

I can't complain about Mweb speeds or service - I had one brief issue (sorted, thanks MWEB) and my line speed tests pretty much match the ones posted by MWEB exactly. I've been running PRTG since I started on uncapped and it's been pretty constantly on spec.

I'm glad they resolved your issue...What is your line and where are you based? I have noticed that all traffic to and from CTN leaves MWEB network via the Victory Park PoP(Pretoria)...it does sound kinda silly dont you think?

 

[rambo919]

right now I’m getting average 15kBs, on my 384k line, considering many people will be downloading atm i feel it is decent

So glad for you, you will have to excuse the rest of us for not agreeing though.

 

[SabreWolfy]

You are clearly on another planet either that or you have not been following all the many threads of posts about the QoS, slow speeds, throttling, shaping, etc and each and every thread has been based on .....wait for it....... FACT ....ABSOLUTE fact! Do you really want me/us to cover all that again? In fact, I remember seeing your nick on some of the posts and ....wait for it.... you were actually AGREEING to some of what was being said, why the sudden change of heart? Did someone from MWEB get to you? Did they promise you something? I have a sneaky suspicion they did.

FACTS:
- When using another ISP, connections are at max
- When using an MWEB capped account, connections are at max
- When using an capped MWEB account, your IP address is from a different pool of addresses
- When using MWEB capped account there is no throttling (24x7x365)
- How many more complaints, speedtest results, traceroutes, pings is need to show problem

AND THE ULTIMATE FACT ....MWEB HAS ADMITTED THERE IS A PROBLEM(not in so many words) but they have indicated that they have underestimated the DEMAND for bandwith.

....i rest my case....

The problems I was experiencing were eventually traced -- with the help of MWeb -- to a problem with the Telkom DSLAM and port. Telkom attended to this and the problem was resolved within a matter of two days. I undertook extensive, exhaustive and systematic trouble-shooting steps to isolate the problem. No, I don't want a Noddy badge. You need to systematically test every item in the connection chain from beginning to end, individually and repeatedly, to be absolutely certain where the problem lies. Maybe you've done this, maybe you haven't. Maybe there is a genuine problem with your connection, maybe there isn't. I certainly can't say one way or the other. What I can say is that bleating on about it here when MWeb has already responded is not helping. What do you want them to do? They are waiting on additional capacity. I'm sure they want it online as much as you do.

I'm not going to comment on your ridiculous assertions about MWeb getting to me and promising me something. You can take your "sneaky suspicion" and shove it. Seriously, get real. What planet are YOU on?

Most of your examples list capped accounts, which is a completely different business model. MWeb has explained from the start that the "home" uncapped account will be shaped. Period. They've been upfront with that. They've explained that if you want unshaped, take the business account. You chose the shaped "home" account and then complain that it's shaped?

MWeb has admitted that they are waiting for additional *planned* capacity to come online. What's the problem? Would you prefer that they replied that there is no problem? Would you prefer that they not reveal if they shape or not?

Finally, there are many people who are satisfied with their uncapped accounts, so the problems on the MWeb network are not systemic -- they are isolated. You appear to be one of the "unlucky" ones.

<rant>
<flame target>
I wonder how much less weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth there would be if "everyone" (excluding you of course; far be it from me to cast aspersions) stopped trying to suck down half the internet as quickly as possible via P2P and torrents and newgroups and who knows what. Go buy the DVD or quit moaning.
</flame target>
</rant>

 

[bradlesliect]

@bradlesliect: ICASA will not act in this. The CC will only get involved if MWeb is abusing a monopoly position, or if there is collusion in the market. The ISP market is showing signs of healthy competition, not collusion, so you don't have much of a case there. And ASA will only judge what was advertised. I don't see that MWeb breached any advertisements. You can also try to make a civil case, but that requires that MWeb has substantially breached the contract with you. In all of these cases, you will need to prove that consumers are being harmed first.

I think this service is good for what I use it for. Yes, torrents are slow, but I am patient. That 40GB torrent will download eventually, whether it's done in a day or in 2 weeks is irrelevant. If you want guaranteed line speeds, you will need to look at MWeb's business option, or one of the IS accounts. Or alternatively pay per GB for your downloads. All of these are much more expensive, but deliver better performance. No. this is not a good account if you want full line speed for your downloads, or if you want to download 24/7.

What's important to me is that I can download both the new RHEL 6 ISO images (yes, it took slightly over a day to do), and I don't have to worry that they are 8GB combined. I can sit in Second Life, listening to a music stream, and not feel guilty that I am wasting GB I am paying for. I can go to a image site, load up a couple of hundred images in separate tabs, and a few minutes later they are all there. I can spend a whole day on YouTube if I wanted to, watching videos, with very little need for buffering. None of this is possible with a capped account for me (too expensive), and I can't afford the high-end uncapped services.

Prices can't come down much further right now, not with the prices Telkom charges for IPC and backhaul links. If these prices were to come down, then there could be movement in the market again, perhaps lowering of prices, and perhaps lowering of contention ratios. But until that happens, or LLU happens, Telkom still completely controls the ADSL market, and by extension the ADSL ISP's.

All that you have said has been noted and will be taken under consideration. So you reckon that there is no possibility of collusion between ISPs and Telkom? There is no probability that Telkom has offered "sweetners" to its clients in exchange for the client doing something for them? I worked for both MWEB and UUNET(now Verizon) for quite a while. I was instrumental in applying for backbone and client links between our PoPs so I know a little bit about what I am talking about. Collusion will happen, its in evitable as pretty soon we have the possibility of another Telecom provider enter our country and ISP industry so the one who has monopoly now needs to ensure thats how it remains when the 2nd Telco arrives. NeoTel is here but they have some reall problems that they are busy ironing out and doubt whether they'll make in the residential market.

Why do you think Telkom has not entered the uncapped ADSL market yet?....cos they making a killing from their clients....ADSL is like a "sideline business" to them. A known fact is that Telkom have offered "voluntary severance packages" to its alleged Senior Management and Staff - why is that? If they were planning to expand, stabilise and meet customer demand, then why do this?

MWEB has realised that even though their offering of uncapped is a good one, it may have been a little too much too soon. They were hoping the Seacom would resolve the IPC network problems and QoS would improve...what they did not expect is the HUGE influx and demand for more. MWEB has been mature enough to admit this and for this I commend them ...but... instead of now provide us(the users) with a project plan and creating that transparency, they feed us with "white lies" Other ISPs are sitting, watching, waiting and seeing how the market is now reacting to what's happening and instead of doing more bulk take-ons, they getting their house in order before they jump in head first. Take a look at Screamer and Digichilli...how many complaints - based on fact - have we not seen about them and from the stats I can see at times, their user base has shrunk quite drastically...lessons people....lessons

 

[SabreWolfy]

@bradlesliect: Would you prefer that MWeb had not broken the uncapped market open? Or that they waited another 6 months? Another year? I'm astonished that you are unhappy with the fact that they are offering uncapped internet. I'm also astonished at the number of conspiracy theories and insider trading and deal-sweetenings going on behind the scenes. Is that why MWeb uncapped is so cheap? Is Telkom *subsidizing* MWeb? Maybe I *am* from another planet.

 

[AntiThesis]

@bradlesliect: East London and 4mb. I'm guessing that my constant good speeds have something to do with the probable lack of people in my area who have taken up the service/are trying to destroy the internets through downloading.

I know you have many questions and complaints (QoS, see-saw speeds etc) but as far as I can see most of them have been addressed by MWEB (seriously, I'm not calling you a tinfoil hat dude and dismissing your claims, just discussing). They have said they're aware that QoS of lower priorities are suffering (p2p, rapidshare, news) but have explained that high priority traffic (browsing, email) is still being given priority. Given that they're buying as much capacity as they possibly can and can't do much about the delays in provisioning that capacity - what would you expect a reasonable response from them to be?

 

[bradlesliect]

I'm not going to comment on your ridiculous assertions about MWeb getting to me and promising me something. You can take your "sneaky suspicion" and shove it. Seriously, get real. What planet are YOU on?

Most of your examples list capped accounts, which is a completely different business model. MWeb has explained from the start that the "home" uncapped account will be shaped. Period. They've been upfront with that. They've explained that if you want unshaped, take the business account. You chose the shaped "home" account and then complain that it's shaped?

MWeb has admitted that they are waiting for additional *planned* capacity to come online. What's the problem? Would you prefer that they replied that there is no problem? Would you prefer that they not reveal if they shape or not?

Finally, there are many people who are satisfied with their uncapped accounts, so the problems on the MWeb network are not systemic -- they are isolated. You appear to be one of the "unlucky" ones.

<rant>
<flame target>
I wonder how much less weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth there would be if "everyone" (excluding you of course; far be it from me to cast aspersions) stopped trying to suck down half the internet as quickly as possible via P2P and torrents and newgroups and who knows what. Go buy the DVD or quit moaning.
</flame target>
</rant>

I will take my "sneaky suspicions" and shove it up yours if you like.... As I said previously, I respect your comments and opinions and I ask that you respect mine.

You obviously have a copy of the T&C that was not made available to me. In fact, I received no such T&C when I signed up for uncapped. Signup was done telephonically. Contract was emailed to me for signature and confirmation and when I looked at the T&C and told them that these conditions were applicable to shaped/capped accs, MWEB promised to call me back and to this day, I await that call

MWEB only admitted that there was a problem when most of its ADSL base started complaining and instead of giving us some logical answers and explanations they tried to insult our intelligence and when this did not work, they finally spilled the beans about what's really happening....agree?

You say the problems are isolated? If that is so, why so many complain?

You right, not all us actuall suck down the internet, some of use for actual work(VPN, Support, Maintenance, Mail Server, etc) and some us work at night cos most of the clientele and business we deal with don't keep our office hours, so when you have a need to work, you expect the throughput you paying for...agree?

Telkom won't sell a 384k service, bill you for it and give you a dialup...agree?

...so....get off your soapbox!

 

[rambo919]

@SabreWolfy
It is clear that it is the facts of HOW mweb started uncapped that people are unhappy with, if nothing else they should have first trialed 384 and 512 lines for a week or so before even CONSIDERING something higher. That they did not anticipate the demand is no excuse, they keep not anticipating the demand, first with the local uncapped trial now this. Which suggests that they are completely out of sync with at least one sector of their target markets or total idiots or simply greedy and covering up after themselves.

 

[bradlesliect]

@bradlesliect: East London and 4mb. I'm guessing that my constant good speeds have something to do with the probable lack of people in my area who have taken up the service/are trying to destroy the internets through downloading.

I know you have many questions and complaints (QoS, see-saw speeds etc) but as far as I can see most of them have been addressed by MWEB (seriously, I'm not calling you a tinfoil hat dude and dismissing your claims, just discussing). They have said they're aware that QoS of lower priorities are suffering (p2p, rapidshare, news) but have explained that high priority traffic (browsing, email) is still being given priority. Given that they're buying as much capacity as they possibly can and can't do much about the delays in provisioning that capacity - what would you expect a reasonable response from them to be?

Hey dude .... I cant agree with you more....but some ppl who have responded here seem to be in their own world... I have read what MWEB and others(constructive comments) have to say and I will patiently wait for MWEB to fix up the network....I just believe that transparency was required and I am sure that ppl would have excepted the explanations and waited.

Thanks for feedback. Appreciate it. I will not say anything further as it appears that I am offending ppl

 

[SabreWolfy]

I will take my "sneaky suspicions" and shove it up yours if you like.... As I said previously, I respect your comments and opinions and I ask that you respect mine.

<snip>

...so....get off your soapbox!

I must respect the fact that you are talking utter rubbish about MWeb getting to me and promising me something and I must respect your sneaky suspicions? Are you for real?

If you're are doing all those critical, work-related things and need better throughput, get a business account. It's unshaped.

That's it though. I ain't feeding this troll no more.

 

[bradlesliect]

@bradlesliect: Would you prefer that MWeb had not broken the uncapped market open? Or that they waited another 6 months? Another year? I'm astonished that you are unhappy with the fact that they are offering uncapped internet. I'm also astonished at the number of conspiracy theories and insider trading and deal-sweetenings going on behind the scenes. Is that why MWeb uncapped is so cheap? Is Telkom *subsidizing* MWeb? Maybe I *am* from another planet.

your comments are like water on a duck's back. Your sarcasm needs some training...

I will say this, I have used other ISPs(IS,Web Africa, Afrihost) and I can honestly tell you that they DO NOT make changes or release any product to the market unless they are certain that its not going to affect their current service levels, cause congestion, network connection degradation or impact on the client's surfing experience. They rather test, wait, beta-test and then release. Yes, they know the gap is there and need is great but they prefer not making any mistakes and if any are made, they keep it minimal, contained and manageable.

 

[rambo919]

just a thought....not every business has the money for a business account...small business especially cant be expected to pay so much more

 

[bradlesliect]

@rambo 919

+1000 ...sabrewolf is obviously not aware of it and needs a reality check on it. Us(Small Businesses) struggle to survive each day and try to provide optimum service levels to our clients on the little we have. Economic times are still tough and will be for while

@AntiThesis
What do your traces look like from EL? Have you ever peaked at leat 350k on your 4MB and have you always been with MWEB on uncapped?

 

[AntiThesis]

@SabreWolfy, @bradlesliect - can you guys keep it civil/move it to PM? Chill and calm. It's weekend time man.


@bradlesliect: Always on Mweb, started on 384 (got line speed) - moved to 4mb, get line speed regularly. Most days http goes at the 400+ mark. Speedtests around 6pm were almost identical to those posted by MWEB. What traces would you like to see?

@rambo919, bradlesliect: Using this service for business while it's untested is pretty silly. Adopting it after a month or two would make a lot more sense.

 

[schumi]

your comments are like water on a duck's back. Your sarcasm needs some training...

I will say this, I have used other ISPs(IS,Web Africa, Afrihost) and I can honestly tell you that they DO NOT make changes or release any product to the market unless they are certain that its not going to affect their current service levels, cause congestion, network connection degradation or impact on the client's surfing experience. They rather test, wait, beta-test and then release. Yes, they know the gap is there and need is great but they prefer not making any mistakes and if any are made, they keep it minimal, contained and manageable.

with all do respect do you feel before Afrihost realesed their uncapped internet they as you say 'test, wait, beta-test and then release'. then vote with your wallet and support good service and go to Afrihost. Is is cheaper if you feel that they have better service

 

[bradlesliect]

@SabreWolfy, @bradlesliect - can you guys keep it civil/move it to PM? Chill and calm. It's weekend time man.


@bradlesliect: Always on Mweb, started on 384 (got line speed) - moved to 4mb, get line speed regularly. Most days http goes at the 400+ mark. Speedtests around 6pm were almost identical to those posted by MWEB. What traces would you like to see?

@rambo919, bradlesliect: Using this service for business while it's untested is pretty silly. Adopting it after a month or two would make a lot more sense.

nah....i'm just going to ignore sabrewolf and avoid the comments made...

using it for business silly? I dont think so. I do remote support and I work at night mostly when our SA businesses are closed and their networks are quiet. I use VPN connections into their networks. I think you will find most Engineers(SysAdmin and Network) prefer working at night and its probably the best time to R&D before moving something into production ....but point taken.

 

[rambo919]

Call me a troll if u will but everyone rushing to MWEB's aid just proves a tendancy in this country to be overjoyed because you just got fed scraps. Everytime big business takes advantage of its customer base you get the flock that irrationally sings praises, a minority that looks for any way to put it in a bad light and a smaller minority that just tries to steer clear of the inevitable snake in the grass. This is a country where curruption is unoffical national policy, over-optimism gets no one anywhere. Listen to the pessimists, they will likely stop you from stepping into the pothole your blind faith is leading you into.

 

[AntiThesis]

using it for business silly? I dont think so. I do remote support and I work at night mostly when our SA businesses are closed and their networks are quiet. I use VPN connections into their networks. I think you will find most Engineers(SysAdmin and Network) prefer working at night and its probably the best time to R&D before moving something into production ....but point taken.

Yeah VPN should be fine - but using any DSL product with no particular SLA attached to it as the single connection for a business is silly. Especially if people expect it to be a stable, perfect service.

Call me a troll if u will but everyone rushing to MWEB's aid just proves a tendancy in this country to be overjoyed because you just got fed scraps. Everytime big business takes advantage of its customer base you get the flock that irrationally sings praises, a minority that looks for any way to put it in a bad light and a smaller minority that just tries to steer clear of the inevitable snake in the grass. This is a country where curruption is unoffical national policy, over-optimism gets no one anywhere. Listen to the pessimists, they will likely stop you from stepping into the pothole your blind faith is leading you into.

Troll

I kid! I kid!

I don't think anyone is saying MWEB is perfect - sabrewolfy had some pretty big problems with Mweb (see his earlier posts) but they've been resolved. It's important to realise the middle ground - companies aren't necessarily completely evil either. Not even Telkom and not even Mweb.

 

[bradlesliect]

@schumi

I think that AH had done a considerable amount of testing. I can honestly tell you that I had no probs whatsoever when I was using their capped account. I look at value for money and if the ISP feels that the complaints are not worth the money I'm paying, they are more than welcome to cancel my acc and ask me to go somewhere else. Only reason why I switched from AH was because of the MWEB uncapped offering and AH could not confirm when they would release uncapped because they were still testing.

I am however considering going back to them. I had a good relationship with them. What has your experience been like with them?

I will take a look around and consider my options. I have to give MWEB one month notice unfortunately, not sure why cos we dont have a signed written agreement in place but then again a telephone recording is the agreement...

Thanks for feedback. appreciated.