N8 hands on review

[LancelotSA]

Lancelot, did u come across any news on if the n8 will be able to run symbian 4 when its released. Im on operamini till monday, so decent searching is not possible!

I haven't and I am not sure you would just yet. Symbian^4 is not in the wild yet so no one outside of Nokia would honestly be able to answer this. Historically speaking though this is not the usual way so I would doubt it.

EDIT : Some speculation here : http://symbianworld.org/5226-possibilities-to-upgrade-your-nokia-n8-symbian3-to-symbian4/

 

[buffalobill]

I haven't and I am not sure you would just yet. Symbian^4 is not in the wild yet so no one outside of Nokia would honestly be able to answer this. Historically speaking though this is not the usual way so I would doubt it.

EDIT : Some speculation here : http://symbianworld.org/5226-possibilities-to-upgrade-your-nokia-n8-symbian3-to-symbian4/

I'm kind of sceptical, unless the new Nokia CEO can put a rocket up the bums of all at Nokia. In recent years they've been extremely unresponsive and very slow with (buggy) upgrades. I've lost faith in Nokia's software capabilities but I still believe they put some of the best handsets together. Build quality has never been a problem, it's their software that has let them down in the smartphone market. I really hope the N8 is going to be the real thing but it's going to have to be a heck of a lot faster than S3 V50 to hold a candle against the competition.

 

[buffalobill]

It looks like you might all have to wait until the end of October: Nokia-N8-Faces-Further-Delays

 

[LancelotSA]

I really hope the N8 is going to be the real thing but it's going to have to be a heck of a lot faster than S3 V50 to hold a candle against the competition.

I still find this infatuation with "speed" interesting. If my menu takes 2 hundreds of a second to change and yours takes 1 hundredth does it really make the phone that unusable? Unless of course I am totally misinterpreting the definition of "faster".

I have also read complaints about needing to "dig into" menus to find what you are looking for. Call me a product of Windows if you must but I am used to, and in fact prefer, being able to move apps into folders which make sense to me. Certain things that I don't access that often I am happy to have buried three folders deep. Things I need immediate access to can go on one of the three home screens.

Ease of use is another regularly used argument. Now I understand most Americans, if you will allow me to generalise, are lazy (in terms of having to learn something new) and apparently slow (finding Symbian difficult to use can only lead me to this conclusion) but I personally cannot see how someone can call Symbian difficult. I know I am pretty technically minded when it comes to computers and the like but I could honestly pick up any phone and probably be extremely efficient with it after a few hours!

It looks like you might all have to wait until the end of October: Nokia-N8-Faces-Further-Delays

There has been much talk of the apparent delays but Nokia has said they will have the phone released by the end of quarter 3 all along. They are indeed releasing it on the 1st October but shipping issues out side of their control will result in clients only getting the phone in their hands later in October.

I also mentioned earlier, when concerns of these delays were initially raised, that I would rather get a product in my hands that Nokia are totally satisfied with than get an inferior product that has many bugs. If I need to wait a month then so be it. My choice of phone two years ago was excellent so I am in no rush anyway.

 

[undesign]

Perhaps.

Also read the grilling the chap that wrote the second review referred to gets in the comments section :

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2365017,00.asp

Yes I saw. Everyone has a different opinion I suppose - and prototypes were used. I have nothing against Nokia - I hope they make it work. And it's clever of them not to rush the launch - rather make sure the wrinkles are ironed out, so to speak. They've invested a lot of credibility on the N8.

 

[buffalobill]

I still find this infatuation with "speed" interesting. If my menu takes 2 hundreds of a second to change and yours takes 1 hundredth does it really make the phone that unusable? Unless of course I am totally misinterpreting the definition of "faster".

Maybe but only if we're talking hundredths of a second, when I'm talking about seconds. There's a big difference between the two.

I have also read complaints about needing to "dig into" menus to find what you are looking for. Call me a product of Windows if you must but I am used to, and in fact prefer, being able to move apps into folders which make sense to me. Certain things that I don't access that often I am happy to have buried three folders deep. Things I need immediate access to can go on one of the three home screens.

Agreed. I like the tree structure which those of us who have grown up on DOS and then Windows are comfortable with. I also like my stuff logically ordered into directories and sub-directories (music, for example).

My point stands about Nokia's buggy software. I've given my 5800 to my wife. She only wants it for the GPS but I have to reinstall Nokia Maps (as a backup to NDrive) and a few other apps. After struggling and failing with Nokia PC Suite, I see that Ovi is corrupted somehow. I've done a repair install, but it still won't launch. Yes, I'm going to figure it out if I want, but why do I have to put myself through this? I won't burden you with the complete story, but it really is very tiresome working with this tedious bloatware.

 

[LancelotSA]

There were questions earlier about the possibility of upgrading the N8 to Symbian^4.... here is a chat about it. Some things mentioned show why it is different now to how it was for the s60v3 and the s60v5, especially some seemingly educated comments by users, and why it may indeed become a possibility going forward.

http://mynokiablog.com/2010/07/12/p...of-upgrading-the-nokia-n8-to-symbian4-to-you/

And regarding being able to upgrade or not....

On the application front, it doesn’t matter too much as both are Qt compatible. Apps made with Qt for Symbian^4 would work for Symbian^3 (as well as MeeGo devices)

 

[LancelotSA]

Maybe but only if we're talking hundredths of a second, when I'm talking about seconds. There's a big difference between the two.
......
My point stands about Nokia's buggy software. I've given my 5800 to my wife.

I've steered clear of touchscreen phones until now for a reason... most have not been up to scratch in my opinion. According to most the iPhone was/is but it is lacking in other areas. By all accounts Symbian^3 is a huge improvement over s60v5 so you can't really compare the N8 to your 5800.

 

[buffalobill]

I've steered clear of touchscreen phones until now for a reason... most have not been up to scratch in my opinion. According to most the iPhone was/is but it is lacking in other areas. By all accounts Symbian^3 is a huge improvement over s60v5 so you can't really compare the N8 to your 5800.

Au contraire my friend. I can and do. The N8 is the first touchphone worth looking at from Nokia since the 5800. It's been two whole years. While Nokia's had its finger up its collective nose, the rest of the world has moved on. I've also moved on and now have the HTC Desire Android phone. This is my speed comparison and it's chalk and cheese.
Now, remember, I'm a Nokia fan which is why I'm distressed about its decline at the cutting edge of the smartphone market. Yes, I know and understand they still dominate the world's phone markets with a massive array of phones to suit all needs and pockets. But the problem seems to be deeper than that. It's turned into an organisation unresponsive to clients. There's the official discussion forums to which no one from Nokia will respond, for example. Customer problems/queries remain unanswered for a year or more. That's a very bad sign of a massive, uncaring corporation out of touch with its customers.
To take it a step further, they're only now getting the idea that the phone is a computing device and what we're into at the moment is a battle of the operating systems. Remember the old joke about the wife who complained about her husband's love making (he worked at Microsoft) when all he would do is sit on the edge of the bed and tell her how great it's going to be? That's Nokia today. (The difference here with Microsoft is they had the DOS monopoly). If the PC world is anything to go by, there's going to be place for two or three operating systems. iOS is going to be one of them, because Apple always hangs in there with maybe 10%. I believe Android will be another because of its momentum and open source nature. The third? I bet it won't be Symbian. Maemo/Meego (what an unfortunate name)? Hardly, unless Nokia has a massive shakeup and spends deep to buy market share. As an aside, is there another phone maker that currently supports Symbian or intends to?

 

[buffalobill]

There were questions earlier about the possibility of upgrading the N8 to Symbian^4.... here is a chat about it. Some things mentioned show why it is different now to how it was for the s60v3 and the s60v5, especially some seemingly educated comments by users, and why it may indeed become a possibility going forward.

http://mynokiablog.com/2010/07/12/p...of-upgrading-the-nokia-n8-to-symbian4-to-you/

And regarding being able to upgrade or not....

I dunno, but what I get out of this is the complete and utter lack of any clear strategic direction from Nokia. It looks like developers are told one thing, the press another and the public nothing. Confusion and disinformation regins.

 

[LancelotSA]

I dunno, but what I get out of this is the complete and utter lack of any clear strategic direction from Nokia. It looks like developers are told one thing, the press another and the public nothing. Confusion and disinformation regins.

Nope, what I get out of that is excited speculation from Nokia users. The press are told nothing and merely speculate based on some information they have heard. Another blog then picks up on this story and adds it's bit. A bit like playing broken telephone.

 

[LancelotSA]

The N8 is the first touchphone worth looking at from Nokia since the 5800. It's been two whole years. While Nokia's had its finger up its collective nose, the rest of the world has moved on. I've also moved on and now have the HTC Desire Android phone. This is my speed comparison and it's chalk and cheese.

So you are comparing your two year old 5800 to your brand new HTC and are concluding that Nokia are a write off even before seeing their new Symbian^3....

You may claim that you can and do feel you are right to throw the 5800 and N8 into the same mix but then you'd do as well to throw a two year old HTC into the mix if we are to be fair.

Now, remember, I'm a Nokia fan

We could argue this!

here's the official discussion forums to which no one from Nokia will respond, for example. Customer problems/queries remain unanswered for a year or more. That's a very bad sign of a massive, uncaring corporation out of touch with its customers.

Could you point me in the direction of a forum where Google respond directly to clients about Android queries. I'm not saying it does not exist but I am interested in finding out to make sure we are not judging one company on different criteria to another.

Nokia has taken it's operating system (and I refer to Symbian as theirs as they are the one who seem to hold it dearest) to the people by leading the fight to make it open source (from my understanding). Not sure how you can get more in touch with your customers and users. Yeah, of course, they could take the easy road and just slap Android on there... of course they would need to upgrade their hardware as Symbian is far more efficient at using a phone's resources.

To take it a step further, they're only now getting the idea that the phone is a computing device and what we're into at the moment is a battle of the operating systems.

One wonders why Samsung is looking at Bada.... after all Android is apparently a no brainer. I have no idea where you come from with them only now realising what a phone is! The N95 was doing things many years ago that other phones were just dreaming of!!! My two year old N82 has acrobat reader, a full office suite etc. Not sure what else you are referring to!

I believe Android will be another because of its momentum and open source nature.

Funny that you think open source is what gives Android the edge when the Symbian foundation is doing just this.

The third? I bet it won't be Symbian. Maemo/Meego (what an unfortunate name)? Hardly, unless Nokia has a massive shakeup and spends deep to buy market share. As an aside, is there another phone maker that currently supports Symbian or intends to?

Betting on the longevity of Symbian really means very little to me. I will be replacing my phone in two years no matter which unit I get now or which OS I choose. I am not promising to marry for better or worse until death us do part. And unlike some people I do not feel the burning desire to own what everyone else owns. If Symbian has 1% market share and I am happy with it's performance then so be it. Numbers often mean very little more than the fact that the sheeple were lead by good marketing.

 

[buffalobill]

We could argue this!

Sigh. Are you calling me a fraud? I think everything I've said points otherwise and I've owned nothing but Nokia since my first phone which was a Siemens S10. But I'm also no blinded fanboy.

One wonders why Samsung is looking at Bada.... after all Android is apparently a no brainer. I have no idea where you come from with them only now realising what a phone is! The N95 was doing things many years ago that other phones were just dreaming of!!! My two year old N82 has acrobat reader, a full office suite etc. Not sure what else you are referring to!

And two years later you're still waiting for something better? Nokia's been ahead of the iPhone (for example) for a while with features that are important to me - for example, Bluetooth stereo. No more. I go back to what I said: They've been sitting on their *r*es lacking clear strategic direction. This has been a management problem.

Funny that you think open source is what gives Android the edge when the Symbian foundation is doing just this.

Sigh. And when did Nokia set up the Symbian foundation? Some time in the first half of last year. NO other manufacturer supports Symbian. Maybe we'll get into a situation with iOS (Apple) vs Symbian (Nokia) vs Android (lots) vs the others.

Betting on the longevity of Symbian really means very little to me. I will be replacing my phone in two years no matter which unit I get now or which OS I choose. I am not promising to marry for better or worse until death us do part. And unlike some people I do not feel the burning desire to own what everyone else owns. If Symbian has 1% market share and I am happy with it's performance then so be it. Numbers often mean very little more than the fact that the sheeple were lead by good marketing.

If I was a sheeple, I'd have a Blackberry (or wannabe lookalike), like everyone else in my office. I love my touchscreen and I'm never going to look back. As I said before, I think the N8 is going to be a very fine phone and I'd have (maybe) loved to have one. It's just a bit late for me. And the Ovi software still sucks.

 

[LancelotSA]

And two years later you're still waiting for something better? Nokia's been ahead of the iPhone (for example) for a while with features that are important to me - for example, Bluetooth stereo. No more. I go back to what I said: They've been sitting on their *r*es lacking clear strategic direction. This has been a management problem.

Not sure what you are hoping to achieve with your comment about two years? I'm sure you are implying that they released nothing of interest in that time, perhaps you are right, point is that I was not needing a phone in that time as I am on contract so that means very little to me. I need a phone now and the N8 is being released. Lucky me.

Clearly Nokia is not for you if you feel that all they have to offer you is Bluetooth stereo... I could list a number of features. The new HDMI output for one. An FM transmitter is another. The best camera on the cellphone market is yet another. One of the few xenon flashes on the market too.... I could carry on but this is my personal list, you are apparently only interested in Bluetooth stereo, which holds very little interest for me.

Indeed Nokia have some management problems. This would be obvious to anyone and is easily seen by the number of management changes taking place. Any company that's market position slides would be concerned. Shareholders would demand action and heads to roll. This holds little concern for me when it comes to choosing my phone of choice. If the N8 does what I want it to then who gives a damn about Nokia having some management issues! I mentioned before that a phone is only a two year "investment" for me.

Sigh. And when did Nokia set up the Symbian foundation? Some time in the first half of last year. NO other manufacturer supports Symbian. Maybe we'll get into a situation with iOS (Apple) vs Symbian (Nokia) vs Android (lots) vs the others.

Again I am not sure of your point. Which other manufacturers support iOS? And you seem to have totally ignored the Samsung/Bada question. Why do they appear to be also taking a similar route to Nokia?

If the operating system is the main criteria for many when choosing a phone then do you not think it is an intelligent strategy to differentiate yourself from the masses? Of course you will argue that differentiation is a negative point when you have an inferior OS but that is your opinion. I feel Symbian is well developed and it's better use of phone resources is one testament to this.

If I was a sheeple, I'd have a Blackberry (or wannabe lookalike), like everyone else in my office. I love my touchscreen and I'm never going to look back. As I said before, I think the N8 is going to be a very fine phone and I'd have (maybe) loved to have one. It's just a bit late for me. And the Ovi software still sucks.

I never referred to you specifically as sheeple but pointed out the flaws in the numbers game you were playing. I find it interesting that you assumed I must be talking about you.... At least we are in agreement that the N8 is a fine phone.

 

[pimpassdaddy]

I'm still unconvinced about Nokia... Been disappointed way too many times. I've had the N91, N95, N96 and N97... No more!!
Never being a innovator with regards to Nokia again... Always was one of the first. DISAPPOINTING!!!!

My blackberry is my first love, by far... Can't wait for the Blackberry Torch. I use 2 phones, and come upgrade for one of my contracts, I don't even think Nokia will be worthy of the 2nd spot either...

 

[LancelotSA]

I'm still unconvinced about Nokia... Been disappointed way too many times. I've had the N91, N95, N96 and N97... No more!!
Never being a innovator with regards to Nokia again... Always was one of the first. DISAPPOINTING!!!!

My blackberry is my first love, by far... Can't wait for the Blackberry Torch. I use 2 phones, and come upgrade for one of my contracts, I don't even think Nokia will be worthy of the 2nd spot either...

Opinions are great things but some constructive criticism would prove more useful to others making cellphones choices.

You mention the N95 in your list of disappointments, this is rather surprising as that phone is regarded by most as a trend setter and way ahead of it's time. It is comments like this that make one wonder what the person is hoping to achieve by posting.

I spoke to someone this weekend that I totally trust. They had an E71 and just recently made the move to BB because of an offer they could not refuse. They stated that the only thing that makes them use the BB and not the E71 is BB messenger. They used to send lots of sms's and now they don't need to as they have lots of friends on BB. It was good to hear this as this is what I have always thought. As stated, everyone's needs differ. Being able to message my mates hundreds of times a die is not high up on my agenda.

This is exactly the reason I am active in these threads, in the hope to learn something new that I don't already know when I am considering a phone. Unfortunately all I often find is bashing without my constructiveness but at least talking about it makes me aware of certain things.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

Opinions are great things but some constructive criticism would prove more useful to others making cellphones choices.

You mention the N95 in your list of disappointments, this is rather surprising as that phone is regarded by most as a trend setter and way ahead of it's time. It is comments like this that make one wonder what the person is hoping to achieve by posting.

I spoke to someone this weekend that I totally trust. They had an E71 and just recently made the move to BB because of an offer they could not refuse. They stated that the only thing that makes them use the BB and not the E71 is BB messenger. They used to send lots of sms's and now they don't need to as they have lots of friends on BB. It was good to hear this as this is what I have always thought. As stated, everyone's needs differ. Being able to message my mates hundreds of times a die is not high up on my agenda.

This is exactly the reason I am active in these threads, in the hope to learn something new that I don't already know when I am considering a phone. Unfortunately all I often find is bashing without my constructiveness but at least talking about it makes me aware of certain things.

I kept my N95 8GB up until recently because it was such a good phone. Other than that all of the nokia N series have been slow and the same old thing over and over again. Im not a BB fan either, they are underpowered devices that have nothing going for them other than the included services(that you pay for anyway) and the cool factor at this point in time.

 

[Rands]

a COMPREHENSIVE review of Symbian 3 : http://www.mobile-review.com/review/symbian-3-en.shtml#8

Nokia was not very happy about this review from Eldar Murtazin : http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/07/legal-action-against-eldar-murtazin-official-statement/

I have not read the full page as yet, but he was not too impressed. Part of his conclusion :

lot of effort has been put in the S^3 to optimize the code and its work speed. Compared to the fifth edition of the S60 platform, everything appears several times faster, which is a great advantage. In addition, the increased RAM size allows one to run a dozen of applications and keep them active in the memory after that, which is another advantage.

As for the disadvantages, the S^3 is none other than an evolutionary development of S60 5th edition with a few minor features added (e.g. an updated player, single tap, pinch-to-zoom, HDMI output, several widget desktops). The situation is analogous to the Android updates from version 2.0 to 2.2 through 2.1, which happened within half a year or slightly more than that. What was added is a new gallery with support for geo-tags (version 2.1) plus minor updates to other functions, as well as extra speed in version 2.2. It took Symbian about two years to do exactly the same.

I dont have a problem with the fact that Symbian 3 looks & feels alot like previous versions, 'eveloutionary development'..as he says. In fact, I almost prefer it that way cos over the years I have become very comfortable with the way that Symbian works. If Sym 3 adresses previous shortcomings of the OS then good.Symbian is basically the face of Nokia smartphones, whats the use of making it look & feel like Android or WM 7?

When Toyota or BMW release a newer model, it sill looks like a Toyota or BMW, same with Microsoft, so why should Symbian be any different.

Symbian is not dead.....it just 'evolved' ")

 

[b_crazy]

If this phone had android I'd pay top dollar for it. Symbian? Nokia why?

 

[LancelotSA]

As for the disadvantages, the S^3 is none other than an evolutionary development of S60 5th edition with a few minor features added (e.g. an updated player, single tap, pinch-to-zoom, HDMI output, several widget desktops). The situation is analogous to the Android updates from version 2.0 to 2.2 through 2.1, which happened within half a year or slightly more than that. What was added is a new gallery with support for geo-tags (version 2.1) plus minor updates to other functions, as well as extra speed in version 2.2. It took Symbian about two years to do exactly the same.

I am reading many reviews online, mostly by Americans, and the ignorance by those who profess to be experts in the field is astounding! The bias equally astounding. Someone will go on at length about a ground breaking, state of the art first from Apple, like (apparent) multitasking (even though the more intelligent amongst us know that it is far from true multitasking) yet when a new feature by Symbian/Nokia is mentioned is it written off as a "minor feature added"

Of course Android can add "new" functions like geotagging and the like in a few months when they are merely following on the coat tails of Nokia! Imitation is far easier than innovation.

Someone joked on another forum about how we'll be hearing in a few months about the exceptional new iPhone that has HDMI output, USB on the go, or dolby surround sound! No doubt everyone will be cheering and bowing at the feet of Steve Jobs. Of course these features are written off as "minor updates" when they occur on a Nokia.

The situation has truly become laughable.