Nice guys always finish last.

dtba said:
The douch bag that sad nice guys want to sleep with the girl, that's not always true hey
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If you just wanted to be her friend there wouldn't be a question of finishing last would there be?
 
I think 'nice' is relative.. e.g. by jhb standards im very nice bahaha :p but really i'm not, i'm just not a pushy bastard. That being said the bar is changed here so as a result you have to change quite a bit which i quickly learnt last year.

What fascinates me about this is that, being adaptable as I am in general, i've become what i don't like being(like bastards i see) yet it appears to work better? Of course it working depends on definition of success, finding lost of random ones sure.. something steady no but then such is life.
 
krycor said:
I think 'nice' is relative.. e.g. by jhb standards im very nice bahaha :p but really i'm not, i'm just not a pushy bastard. That being said the bar is changed here so as a result you have to change quite a bit which i quickly learnt last year.

What fascinates me about this is that, being adaptable as I am in general, i've become what i don't like being(like bastards i see) yet it appears to work better? Of course it working depends on definition of success, finding lost of random ones sure.. something steady no but then such is life.
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Ja, what I'm wondering is why these guys dont stop being nice if it's not working? If "nice" guys finish last, wtf would you want to be "nice"?
 
Its who they are....

Look what krycor said he has sacrificed liking himself to be "liked"
 
I don't know how much is true here. My one friend is the friendliest guy you will ever meet and he is a bit of a push over but girls seem to adore him. he always has one or the other girl lined up so I guess it all depends. He is truly a nice guy thou not just with girls but with every person he meets.
 
TheGuy said:
I don't know how much is true here. My one friend is the friendliest guy you will ever meet and he is a bit of a push over but girls seem to adore him. he always has one or the other girl lined up so I guess it all depends. He is truly a nice guy thou not just with girls but with every person he meets.
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Ja. Guy like that... I bet he's always going for the prize.
 
Nick333 said:
Ja, what I'm wondering is why these guys dont stop being nice if it's not working? If "nice" guys finish last, wtf would you want to be "nice"?
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Alan said:
Its who they are....

Look what krycor said he has sacrificed liking himself to be "liked"
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Because some people, myself included to a lesser degree these days, believe in sticking to an ideal irrespective of the current loss knowing that the future pay off will be there(from career, life, etc). It's almost as if it's a way you brought up. In this case being genuinely nice and accommodating works.. but really what I learnt is that as much as women want that at some point, it's usually further down the line but that's not what they want upfront.

Think about the bad guys women complain about? what makes them bad? lack of commitment, going through plenty women early on, dating many simultaneously, uncertainty, dominating to a degree etc yet women still go in knowing 1/2 the time that he has done this before and will likely do it again. lol, it boils down to just being a man, taking/doing what u want without the baggage.

As much as I like being nice to people in general, i noticed in jhb people see it as a sign of weakness/pushover and quite eagerly try/assume you to be one. With things moving fast here, if she reads it as that and moves on its too late.. rather the opposite.

It's funny.. life really has become a get there first, fast and pay the speed fine later rather than be cautious, last and not achieve as much.
 
Alan said:
Well if he is going through women like a revolving door he must be after one thing. Not a nice guy trait...
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He wants to get married and have kids but the chicks he date are not mariage material so it never works out. I guess he also has a few issues himself
 
TheGuy said:
He wants to get married and have kids but the chicks he date are not mariage material so it never works out. I guess he also has a few issues himself
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Pending his age, he is dating the wrong age bracket &/or type of women :p Friend I met last year told me that the women i seem to go for seem to have the same basic characteristics.

Essentially I go looking for trouble.. it's like that saying from Einstein "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Either accept that results will never be what you want or change input parameter/selection
 
I think we need to realise you can be nice or a door mat. In my opinion a nice guy is respectful and patient BUT will have a little bit of fire in his belly that he uses appropriately. He won't come on as hard as the ''Alpha Dawg'', but he definitely won't be as wimpy as the door mat. A door mat will come across as a nice guy but will have absolutely no fire in him and allow himself to be messed around in the hope that one day it will be his time. A nice guy will hang around, maybe accept one of those "I'm not ready yet" k@k stories until he realises it won't work and then he'll move on. A door mat will be attached to the hip for an eternity, feeding off of every bit of nonsense story about not being ready the woman feeds him.
 
Nick333 said:
If you think you finish last because you're nice, you should read this:

6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/

Daily.
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I'm going to take issue with that article on one point: It's 100% true that in the world of business, jobs, money, what you can do is far more important than what you are. You have to add some value to a corporation and they will only ever pay you commensurately with what you earn for them.

But I'm not at all sure it's true in relationships. Do you really find that women pick and choose men based on the fact that say, out of 10 possible men chasing one woman, this one can play the guitar and cook like a Michelin Star chef, whereas this one is just good looking and respectful? I don't think it works like that. Attraction and love are extremely messy, and women don't add up a scale of attributes to decide on a partner. They fall in love with what a man is, not what he can do.
 
A while back they did an interesting study. They took a pile of photo's of men, and made two copies of each picture. On the first they said the man was had a fairly low paying job and on the second photo a high paying job but the photo was the same. They then asked thousands of women to rate the men on a scale of 1 to 10 for attractiveness. Despite the photo being identicle the higher salary photo of each man on average scored 2 points higher than the low salary version. Just as men are biologically and culturally programmed to like prety fertile looking women, women are programmed to look for a good provider. Hence yes, it does matter that you can deliver the goods. It matter two points. If your genetic lottery at birth made you a 6/10 looks wise then provided you work hard and get a good career you can improve that to 8/10. Simple fact.
 
Assuming "working hard" correlates to wealth :erm:
 
Lol, it does help, but working smart also helps, as does a fundamental understanding of supply and demand.
 
cerebus said:
But I'm not at all sure it's true in relationships. Do you really find that women pick and choose men based on the fact that say, out of 10 possible men chasing one woman, this one can play the guitar and cook like a Michelin Star chef, whereas this one is just good looking and respectful? I don't think it works like that. Attraction and love are extremely messy, and women don't add up a scale of attributes to decide on a partner. They fall in love with what a man is, not what he can do.
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I think you will find that men who are skilled, talented and/or achievers are a lot more attractive to women in general. Absolutely. I'll admit it's not as hard and fast a rule because as you say attraction is messy, but achievement/skill/talent are a humongous factor when it comes to attractiveness of men.
 
Sorry, Girls -- There Are No Nice Guys


Here's the thing -- on paper, I'm actually one of those Nice Guys you often hear and/or read about. I'm uncomfortable to the point of nausea at the idea of being a jerk to women in order to manipulate them into sleeping with me. I do everything in my power to make a girl I'm interested in comfortable and happy, and I refrain from any remotely creepy or suggestive behavior.

So, although I actually do qualify as one of the Nice Guys, there's a paradox -- there's no such thing.

The Nice Guy question had always vexed me, because I'm Nice -- but really only in comparison to some of these hammers and nails I see in bars, aggressively hitting on you women. (I really don't know how you all deal with it.) Then it struck me one night while I was being Nice to a girl -- I want to sleep with her just as much as that a-hole over there does. Which makes me just as much of a creep.

Let me explain.

Look -- you know how you and every one of your friends dated a worthless waste of internal organs at some point in your life? That's because every single one of us is at least a little bit of a worthless waste of internal organs. You guys aren't strictly all a bunch of Ma Teresa's and church mice, either. But hey -- guys aren't all Lloyd Dobler or the Antichrist. There's a spectrum for these things -- and that's good.

The sooner you accept that most guys are --- like me -- nice guys and metaphorical-leather-jacket wearing sacks of crap, the sooner you'll find a guy who's a good balance of the two.

Look, I Really AM One of the Nice Guys
I love talking and listening! I do. And I especially love talking and listening to women. I love language and stories and I love talking about emotions and feelings. Why? Oh, I don't know, perhaps my body's making too much estrogen, or maybe it's because I have sisters and nieces and a mom I love. I've been told I'm utterly guileless! Hear that? Guile-free, ladies!

Wait, No -- I'm the Worst
Nice Guys, like perverts and douchebags and Mormons, also want to get down. Yes, I just spent 45 minutes talking to you about the show "Degrassi: The Next Generation," but I still want to take your bra off. Oh, and I've never actually seen "Degrassi!"

Make no mistake -- we sweet, self-deprecating, talky, emotionally available and thoughtful types want sex, too. Nice Guys want you bad and, just like the a-hole, we're ready to compromise ourselves in order to get what we want. How bad? "Degrassi" bad.

Wait, No, Don't Go -- I'm Nice
I honestly want to get to know who you really are. You want to talk about heartbreak or longing or your fear of death? Done. I'll talk to you for hours about almost anything. If there's a house party and there are dudes on a couch in front of a giant TV and women in a kitchen with a giant bottle of wine, I'll be in the kitchen. Why? Because you women are baffling, exotic creatures and just listening to you talk thrills me to no end. I'm constantly marveling at how much more interesting you are then men. Why do you even like us??

Oh, Wait, Nope, I'm Still a Creep
While enjoying your company and conversation, I will also have a parallel narrative running in my head in which you tell me you want to ball up your panties and shove them in my mouth. I will entertain both the real you and the Hopefully You in my head, and by our second or third drink, you and I will be married in my insane freakshow of a mind. If by drink number four you don't give me your number or generally grow less enthralled with my presence, I will go home alone and have an extremely depressing masturbatory moment involving the thought of you debasing me horribly in some way. I'll want to cry myself to sleep, but won't be able to because I'll pass out.

In Sum, I'm Actually Just a Normal Dude. Sorry, Ladies!
So I'm a bit of a merman, but it doesn't mean I'm not a calculating, diabolical bastard-face. Now just because most of my calculations end in failure doesn't diminish the fact that I am, much like the intentional a-hole who "negs" chicks, engaged in some form of pathology that I'm hoping will get you to make out with me.

But here's the thing -- all of my personality traits -- the self-deprecation, the willingness to share my actual feelings, the sweet temperament -- they're not manufactured. They're real. But they also conveniently help get me what I want. See? It's complicated.

I don't do it for this purpose, but I do realize that my ability to listen and synthesize information may also get me a shot at having you sweat on me later. See, we all work with what we've got. A Nice Guy's guilelessness? Still his guile.
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http://www.lemondrop.com/2009/12/23/sorry-girls-there-are-no-nice-guys/
 
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