No Man's Sky

[Oculate]

What made me more sad is when I found out what happens when you get to the center. And the fact that the Honest Trailer did not warn that there would be spoilers :/

Having not learnt what this spoiler is yet, my NMS playtime has gone from every night to 'maybe on the weekend if I feel like it' for a different reason

While I can't find the thread, essentially due to playtesters zerging through the game in roughly 15 hours, HelloGames seems to have expanded the universe by 4 just prior to launch

So you'll start the game at +- 175k ly away... when in fact you are roughly 700k ly from the center.

Originally the pacing would have been perfect, you'd have finished all ship/suit/weapon upgrades with 20-30k ly left to go.... but now you get through all of those progression systems with 150k ly left

When Blackholes say you've warped '960k ly', this is the result of suddenly expanding the universe, the calculated results come out weird and horribly inaccurate

After spending 30min crafting warp cells to fully fuel my hyperdrive + 5 spare in the ship inventory and 10 spare in the exosuit inventory, first warp and my game crashes.

I haven't turned it on since

 

[Brenden_E]

Having not learnt what this spoiler is yet, my NMS playtime has gone from every night to 'maybe on the weekend if I feel like it' for a different reason

While I can't find the thread, essentially due to playtesters zerging through the game in roughly 15 hours, HelloGames seems to have expanded the universe by 4 just prior to launch

So you'll start the game at +- 175k ly away... when in fact you are roughly 700k ly from the center.

Originally the pacing would have been perfect, you'd have finished all ship/suit/weapon upgrades with 20-30k ly left to go.... but now you get through all of those progression systems with 150k ly left

When Blackholes say you've warped '960k ly', this is the result of suddenly expanding the universe, the calculated results come out weird and horribly inaccurate

After spending 30min crafting warp cells to fully fuel my hyperdrive + 5 spare in the ship inventory and 10 spare in the exosuit inventory, first warp and my game crashes.

I haven't turned it on since

You can get a refund if you bought through steam. Go go go!

 

[Alan]

 

[Oculate]

You can get a refund if you bought through steam. Go go go!

I don't want a refund thanks. I'll wait for the progression system to be fixed either in updates or content patches

 

[konfab]

You can get a refund if you bought through steam. Go go go!

Refund after 15 hours of gameplay?

That is pretty much like theft IMO.

 

[Zoopy]

Refund after 15 hours of gameplay?

That is pretty much like theft IMO.

Playtime is irrelevant when the product you got is not the product that was advertised.

I'm amazed at how many people are crying about playtime and call it theft but ignore the fact that the product was sold on a heap of lies in the first place. I guess it's perfectly okay what Hello Games did then. :wtf:

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Playtime is irrelevant when the product you got is not the product that was advertised.

I'm amazed at how many people are crying about playtime and call it theft but ignore the fact that the product was sold on a heap of lies in the first place. I guess it's perfectly okay what Hello Games did then. :wtf:

I am busy exploring the options of unfair trade practises and taking Sony South Africa to the National Consumer Tribunal about their refund policies. Still exploring the same for Steam but I think without local representation that this will be more difficult.

 

[Oculate]

Playtime is irrelevant when the product you got is not the product that was advertised.

The game that was advertized : INDIE game (made by INDIE team) with infinite number of planets in a sandbox universe

Let me quickly buy Infinite Warfare, burn through the SP in 10hours and demand a refund because I made the assumption was an 'infinite' FPS based off announcement trailers

Doesn't steam have a finite time-frame from purchase to qualify for a refund?

I am busy exploring the options of unfair trade practises and taking Sony South Africa to the National Consumer Tribunal about their refund policies. Still exploring the same for Steam but I think without local representation that this will be more difficult.

Care to share how (with the info posted below)?

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/g...efunds/playstation-store-cancellation-policy/

Games, game add-ons, season passes, in-game consumables and PlayStation® Video titles

You can cancel a digital content purchase within 14 days from the date of transaction, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming it.

Digital content that you have started downloading, streaming and in-game consumables that have been delivered, are not eligible for a refund unless the content is faulty.

You can cancel your purchase of a season pass within 14 days from the date of transaction, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming any digital content (e.g. game add-ons) included in the season pass.

If you purchase in-game consumables on the PlayStation®Store, they will be delivered when you next launch the game, until then you will have up to 14 days from the date of transaction to cancel. If you purchase in-game consumables during gameplay, they will be delivered immediately so you will not be able to cancel the purchase. In-game consumables are items such as virtual currencies (e.g. FIFA packs or GTA Cash Packs), boosts and other items that are depleted during gameplay.

Pre-Orders

You may cancel a pre-order of digital content at any time before the release date. If the release date has passed, you can still change your mind and request a refund up to 14 days after payment was taken for the pre-order, provided that you have not started downloading or streaming the content to your device.

Any other 'policy' system opens it up for too much abuse

Be sure to emphasize how long you've been with STEAM and how you use their service and how you will seriously consider purchases with them in future if the refund isn't resolved (do this with PSN too)

Bwuahahaahaha, jeez now this is pathetic

 

[Brenden_E]

snip

Because they lied about the product on record (there's lots of video evidence), they can be sued if they don't refund. So if you feel you have been duped, you have the right to claim a refund.

There's been numerous threads about how steam will refund you regardless of playtime.

$60 is a lot for some people. Don't defend the developer, it's not okay to lie.

 

[Oculate]

So if you feel you have been duped, you have the right to claim a refund.

You see this is exactly what I have an issue with...

We were promised a massive space exploration game, and that’s what we got. Now if we all opened NMS on launch day to find a mini golf simulator, then sure… ask for a refund. But there’s no bait & switch here, it’s just people bitching about missing features. Features, that I’m pretty sure most of them couldn’t remember were promised until they saw the Reddit thread breaking down every thing Sean Murray ever said about the game and decided to chime in because it’s fun to bitch on the internet and feel like you’re "one of the smart ones."

But wait, $60 is a lot of money... if only there was some safety net...

You had every single opportunity in the world to wait and see how this game turned out, you didn’t have to buy it. But you did.

If anything, this should just be a reminder to people (me included) who preorder/buy on day one – it’s risky. It’s always a better idea to wait for impressions and reviews before jumping in, especially at $60.

Do we get refunds if we go see a movie in the theater that doesn’t deliver on our expectations? No.

I was also unsure of just what NMS would be, so I watched several gameplay videos… got a pretty damn good impression, and then I bought it. I understand what the game is and isn’t, and I’m satisfied.

It’s not the 1950s, where all we have to go on is commercials and salesmen. Not sure? Go online, do some research, and don’t buy on day one.

What a bunch of babies.

What's the underlying theme in both of the above quotes..."buying on day one is risky - DONT DO IT"

FYI I've logged more than 60 hours in game. I've enjoyed 99.8% of that time spent

 

[D.B.Cooper]

I smell a class-action lawsuit incoming... You'd think developers would have learned their lesson with Aliens: Colonial Marines, but no, here we go again

 

[SoulTax]

What's the underlying theme in both of the above quotes..."buying on day one is risky - DONT DO IT"

FYI I've logged more than 60 hours in game. I've enjoyed 99.8% of that time spent

It is risky of course, but people should not be punished for wanting to be among the first to try something new.

If you go to the opening of a top class restaurant. You should be able to claim your money back if they serve you McDonalds.

That is basically what has happened here. And with a product like a game, you sometimes only realise it is Mcdonalds after you have played it for a while.

Sure there is the safety net of waiting to purchase. But it is because of the early purchasers and reviewers, that the waiters get to make a more educated decision. Those early purchasers should not be unduly punished at all.

The only way we can, as a consumer group, change the landscape that we find ourselves in. Is to hit these corporations where it hurts. Bad reviews haven't stopped stopped Activision from making a mint off of re-polishing their CoD Turd over and over, while promising certain hosting functionality and not delivering. But if people actually held the industry to a higher standard of honesty, and were easily able to claim their money back when marketing promises turn out to be false, then the industry would have an impetus to change.

Whether you enjoy the delivered product or not should not make a difference. The facts of the matter are, lies were told in order to boost sales. They need to be held accountable for those lies.

 

[Brenden_E]

snip

What kind of whack logic is that? Imagine that scenario anywhere else. A car salesmen tell you it's a 4x4 and a month later you discover it's a 2x4, it your fault and you should have done better research? Ludicrous.

 

[Brenden_E]

snip

You are mixing things. There's a difference between a subjective experience where the establishment did not lie to you. For instance, I go to a restaurant and I don't enjoy their food. It's not their fault.
And a lie about the product. For instance I go to a restaurant, order beef and get pork. The latter is more accurate to describe the no man's sky situation and it's not ok.

The dev is on video saying you can see other players, it's a multiplayer game. Straight up lie.

 

[konfab]

Playtime is irrelevant when the product you got is not the product that was advertised.

I'm amazed at how many people are crying about playtime and call it theft but ignore the fact that the product was sold on a heap of lies in the first place. I guess it's perfectly okay what Hello Games did then. :wtf:

TV advert promises you that wearing ax deodorant will make you an irresistible sex machine. You use half the tin, and it doesn't work.
Now ask for a refund.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

Care to share how (with the info posted below)?

https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/g...efunds/playstation-store-cancellation-policy/

For the time being I will update progress on my blog. Quite some time back I mentioned in this thread that one PSN refund was processed, but this was a pre-order which was never delivered or started and happened quite quick. Another Steam purchase was also refunded within 1 day.

Right now I am dealing with two separate issues (not going into too much detail until Sony/Steam has responded to my appeals):
1) Sony refund rejection without any reason despite refund request within 2 days of launch and little play-time. This has been going back-and-forth since 12th August. In all fairness SCEE (Sony UK) deals with this and I have only now being able to find out that PartServe deals with this locally (this will greatly assist with the National Consumer Tribunal). The two issues here are the lack of redress/refund (CPA) as well as ethics (the email and chat responses from SCEE on how the refund was refused and the issue skirted.

There are more T&Cs/TOS (like this one: http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/e/e_tosua_en.html - section XII onwards). I have a whole list of evidence how Sony skirted the issue (including the one where they blamed HelloGames or where SCEE said that they don't have to answer to South African consumer laws). Then there is obviously the discrepancy in credit card charge although only less than 30 Rand, I am pretty sure it is illegal to charge on a Rand advertised product forex fees.

2) Steam is a separate issue and is going to be a bit trickier as there is no SA representation. Since I gifted the game to my son, the last thin I want to do is request a chargeback and then have my kid's steam-account banned.

I will post more info once I have more. Right now SBSA has also just come back that Sony replied with "No refund, contact the developer for a patch" (that was from Sony SCEE - I still want to see what Sony SA does).

I think the challenge Sony/Steam and HelloGames have is the following:
- The game was broken when it launched. On the PS4 it crashed for a large number of users frequently. For me personally it crashed every 10-15 min as soon as I landed/scanned and I gave up. For my son he had FPS/lag issues and although other games work really well, he had to turn down all GFX settings on a high-end rig to make it work. Most of the 3hours he played was adjusting settings and restarting the game. I sat with him for maybe 1 1/2 hours Googling solutions on release day and that "idle" time was also recorded as game-time as the game was running while he was Googling. Had a I known about the 2hr refund limit, then I would have cancelled right away.
- The game was overhyped/priced and features where promised which do not exist. I think most upset comes from the title being USD60/R899 on PS4 (and I think it was R599 on Steam) - a cost for which you get some decent AAA titles which do not crash.

Some people disagree with guys asking for refunds despite long play-times. Let's not forget that countries very well have consumer protection laws in place which protect consumers from wrong/misleading advertising.

For many players like myself, we are not talking about latent defects (i.e. that surprise when you realise what happens when you reach the center of the universe), but we are talking about an obvious defunct product. It is comparable to ordering food for delivery and paying for it and the food arrives off/mouldy - I doubt that you would accept it and wait until perhaps sometime in the future the company resolves the issue.

I would have loved playing the game had it not crashed every 15 minutes. I was really not in the mood to troubleshoot and try one patch after the next. The reason why I bought a console was to not face all sorts of driver/OS issues and the expectation is more than reasonable that HelloGames should have delivered a crash-free game on the console (I fully appreciate that PC systems are more fragmented and hence have a higher potential of issues - a PS4 is a PS4 and if it crashes on one system there is a 99% chance it will crash on any other PS4).

 

[Ninja_Theory]

TV advert promises you that wearing ax deodorant will make you an irresistible sex machine. You use half the tin, and it doesn't work.
Now ask for a refund.

Bwahaha Not a perfect analogy though.. Axe's lie is that they never mentioned it only works for 5 mins after a shower. NMS lied about game features that were never part of the release product. Big difference. I'm still loving the game though, lies and all

 

[redarrow]

Steam must be receiving a lot of refund requests, I noticed the No Man's Sky store page now has a note at the top: "The standard Steam refund policy applies to No Man's Sky. There are no special exemptions available. Click here for more detail on the Steam refund policy.". Doesn't really inspire confidence...

Personally I think Steam's 2 hours thing is a bit flawed, some games can be played entirely in 2 hours and and some barely get started. They should be a bit more fluid based on the perceived length of the game - although that would also be tricky with sandbox type games...

 

[Zoopy]

You see this is exactly what I have an issue with...

Yeah, because people forgot that they were promised MP.

Man, please let me never have a developer's cock that far down my throat. :crylaugh:

The game that was advertized : INDIE game (made by INDIE team) with infinite number of planets in a sandbox universe

Let me quickly buy Infinite Warfare, burn through the SP in 10hours and demand a refund because I made the assumption was an 'infinite' FPS based off announcement trailers

Yeah, because that's totally the same as not actually having the features advertised. If the CoD lead designer says in multiple interviews that CoD Infinite will have vehicles and the game drops and there are no vehicles, then you can compare it to NMS.

Try a little harder next time.

Considering the people whose job it was to take our money (Steam, Sony, Amazon) gave out refunds, I reckon the angry fanboys' opinions are more than a little irrelevant. It's just more butthurt whining at this point, in line with the whining about the game dropping to only 40% positive reviews on Steam. :crylaugh:

 

[Zoopy]

TV advert promises you that wearing ax deodorant will make you an irresistible sex machine. You use half the tin, and it doesn't work.
Now ask for a refund.

Yeah, because there is totally a reasonable expectation that wearing Ax will bring girls to you in hordes.

Whereas when the lead designer for a videogame explicitly says a game will have MP, it is very unreasonable to expect the game to have MP.

You are mixing things. There's a difference between a subjective experience where the establishment did not lie to you. For instance, I go to a restaurant and I don't enjoy their food. It's not their fault.

Exactly! It's not like people were simply disappointed in the game they got, it's that the game they got was not remotely what they were told they would get. If the game was simply disappointing but still exactly as advertised, it would be a different matter altogether. I wonder how many of these people defending NMS devs were opposed to the ****storm around Aliens: Colonial Marines?

I'm disappointed in Deus Ex: MD. I don't enjoy it but I don't want a refund because I played 10 hours and got the game that was advertised to me. I wasn't conned into buying it based on misleading advertisement by Square Enix/Eidos Montreal.