O/T from "Windows 10 warns users not to install Chrome and Firefox" thread

quovadis said:
Well at least there has been some progress, even though this thread has been derailed but not one mention of XP...
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Lol I still have hardware that runs on XP, not by choice however. Have two laptops that run on XP, I think there are quite a few people that still have some thing running on XP.

While we are now free to chat about windows 10 thing, thanks mods.

@Johnatan56
CPU processing and scaling has it limits, CPU's are very inefficient at 3D calculations in general, it doesn't have the necessary power to calculate modern day physics, well it can, it just takes a fair amount of clock cycles to do so.In order to keep up with the GPU, there is only so many task the CPU can do, AI, scripts, and basic 3D calculation, and still requires processing power for in between, Additionally whether it's DX11 or DX12 game the CPU scaling is going to be the same not sure why you brought up the CPU matter as it never was in dispute.

I either way, I have use for windows 7 till 2020 :D after which I will consider either moving over to linux or MACos, I really don't see my self in any way installing windows 10 or any other version.Windows 10 too intrusive, nag, nag, nag, older software incompatibilities, botched updates, forced updates especially for the bandwidth starved isn't a good idea forcing me to update, I simply don't like the way windows is conducting business right now, it's at the expense of incremental update of DX11, and a windows that looks pretty.

I will stick with my original windows 10 assessment, ..............blegh !
 
Johnatan56 said:
No. Windows 10 is the final version of windows, they just release major updates to it.
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Hehehe...hehehe...hehehe....

Still in beta. You may be aware how many 'great' ideas introduced in Windows 10 had been dropped later.
 
Where are your links backing up this propaganda?

You need to provide them asap or I will start reporting posts in this thread as trolling.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Where are your links backing up this propaganda?

You need to provide them asap or I will start reporting posts in this thread as trolling.
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Just responding to the false statement. Make your own research, good not only for robots.
 
wizardofid said:
Lol I still have hardware that runs on XP, not by choice however. Have two laptops that run on XP, I think there are quite a few people that still have some thing running on XP.

While we are now free to chat about windows 10 thing, thanks mods.

@Johnatan56
CPU processing and scaling has it limits, CPU's are very inefficient at 3D calculations in general, it doesn't have the necessary power to calculate modern day physics, well it can, it just takes a fair amount of clock cycles to do so.In order to keep up with the GPU, there is only so many task the CPU can do, AI, scripts, and basic 3D calculation, and still requires processing power for in between, Additionally whether it's DX11 or DX12 game the CPU scaling is going to be the same not sure why you brought up the CPU matter as it never was in dispute.

I either way, I have use for windows 7 till 2020 :D after which I will consider either moving over to linux or MACos, I really don't see my self in any way installing windows 10 or any other version.Windows 10 too intrusive, nag, nag, nag, older software incompatibilities, botched updates, forced updates especially for the bandwidth starved isn't a good idea forcing me to update, I simply don't like the way windows is conducting business right now, it's at the expense of incremental update of DX11, and a windows that looks pretty.

I will stick with my original windows 10 assessment, ..............blegh !
Click to expand...
Well, I would suggest moving anything on XP to Linux instantly due to security unless it's a black box.

3D calculations are inherently parallelize-able, anything that can be done so should be moved to the GPU as it's made for such tasks. In regards to the CPU matter, that's the entire point of DX12, to allow draw calls directly to the GPU instead of the CPU, then Swa started arguing about stuff not being able to scale across multiple processors without being able to give an example.

Not sure what you mean by W10 software incompatabilities? Everything that runs on W7 runs on W10. It has the same compatibility mode as W7 actually, I just haven't bothered to use it. For older DX games, you can use DirectPlay, Windows even suggests the feature if it detects that the game needs it.

1536912760966.png

And yeah, there's nothing wrong with Linux, it's got some great distros, if games and other daily tools like the Adobe suite would work natively on it, I'd move away from Windows instantly.
Not really a fan of MacOS though, people says it's innovative, but I just find it to be the complete opposite. :p

In regards to forced updates to bandwidth starved, Windows 10 actually has the metered bandwidth option, including data usage controls:
1536912947869.png
Which means it also respects your data limit inc. what the apps on your device use:
1536913015330.png
But of course, Windows 10 can never improve in regards to updates. :p

The Windows 10 now compared to launch is miles better, I still have to do the cumulative update so might be new features. It somehow didn't trigger during the time I scheduled it not to. :unsure:

And again, if W7 meets your needs perfectly, don't upgrade, it's got security updates, it's got your entire workflow going well, why move/migrate when everything already works and there is no significant improvement for your workflow (assuming you never shut down or have memory constraints)?

EDIT:
Just realized, newer software like Docker CE wouldn't run on W7.
1536913316602.png
This due to no hyper-v support.
 
sajunky said:
Well, I see now, but your post with a false statement hasn't been moved. Did you notice that?
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Are you going to answer the valid questions posed to you or try deflect them again?

BTW, you still haven't pointed us to the portion of the Windows EULA that grants them permission to mine crypto on your machine.... so lets start there shall we?
 
Really good post!
Win 10 is streets betters now than it was. If you want understand what can be done and what not you need to put in the time and work through the new versions each time to see what has been added.
Especially anything that you may have set up yourself before based on what you believed was previously required.
 
Johnatan56 said:
Well, I would suggest moving anything on XP to Linux instantly due to security unless it's a black box.

3D calculations are inherently parallelize-able, anything that can be done so should be moved to the GPU as it's made for such tasks. In regards to the CPU matter, that's the entire point of DX12, to allow draw calls directly to the GPU instead of the CPU, then Swa started arguing about stuff not being able to scale across multiple processors without being able to give an example.

Not sure what you mean by W10 software incompatabilities? Everything that runs on W7 runs on W10. It has the same compatibility mode as W7 actually, I just haven't bothered to use it. For older DX games, you can use DirectPlay, Windows even suggests the feature if it detects that the game needs it.

View attachment 555879

And yeah, there's nothing wrong with Linux, it's got some great distros, if games and other daily tools like the Adobe suite would work natively on it, I'd move away from Windows instantly.
Not really a fan of MacOS though, people says it's innovative, but I just find it to be the complete opposite. :p

In regards to forced updates to bandwidth starved, Windows 10 actually has the metered bandwidth option, including data usage controls:
View attachment 555885
Which means it also respects your data limit inc. what the apps on your device use:
View attachment 555887
But of course, Windows 10 can never improve in regards to updates. :p

The Windows 10 now compared to launch is miles better, I still have to do the cumulative update so might be new features. It somehow didn't trigger during the time I scheduled it not to. :unsure:

And again, if W7 meets your needs perfectly, don't upgrade, it's got security updates, it's got your entire workflow going well, why move/migrate when everything already works and there is no significant improvement for your workflow (assuming you never shut down or have memory constraints)?

EDIT:
Just realized, newer software like Docker CE wouldn't run on W7.
View attachment 555889
This due to no hyper-v support.
Click to expand...

Some of my apps are from Early XP days, lots things like DDS convertors, icon texture previews shells, and other menu shell apps that made my life A LOT easier don't work, now I have to fire up gimp or photoshop for texture conversions and such, I guess if shop around I could get a nice replacement app with shell commands even batch commands that I have missed out on.

CPU's scale quite well in recent years, the thing however, system requirements have stabilized as mentioned before, average system requirements as min require a icore3 and med icore5, and high icore7, throwing a 20 core game at a CPU is a bit pointless even thought it would scale well on all 20 cores, it's not really needed and it won't improve framerate past certain amount of physical CPU cores, load will be balanced but that is about all you going to get.There is a framerate/scale limit for physical cores at the moment.
 
wizardofid said:
Some of my apps are from Early XP days, lots things like DDS convertors, icon texture previews shells, and other menu shell apps that made my life A LOT easier don't work, now I have to fire up gimp or photoshop for texture conversions and such, I guess if shop around I could get a nice replacement app with shell commands even batch commands that I have missed out on.

CPU's scale quite well in recent years, the thing however, system requirements have stabilized as mentioned before, average system requirements as min require a icore3 and med icore5, and high icore7, throwing a 20 core game at a CPU is a bit pointless even thought it would scale well on all 20 cores, it's not really needed and it won't improve framerate past certain amount of physical CPU cores, load will be balanced but that is about all you going to get.There is a framerate/scale limit for physical cores at the moment.
Click to expand...
Maybe that new app could be a lot more productive if you didn't have to jump between apps, if it can cut out the Adobe license it might save money overall.

It's not that system requirements for higher end apps stabilized, it's more that CPU single threaded performance has stagnated as we reached the limit of the process node, you design your software with the hardware in mind. In regards to normal apps, like e.g. word, textpad, etc., old CPU from the early 2000's were already good enough, we just add more "features" or make it look nicer, etc. when we get more performance, though always balance it with the power use trade-off.

Yeah, I did say it scales well. The scaling with an "absurd" amount of cores has more to do with what the mainstream machine was when it was released for games, you optimize for your target audience. Newer games will try and offload from the main thread, but you can't make something that is dependent on something else independent if the logic doesn't allow for it.

1536916347368.png
Is an example of how games multi-thread. Note how logic and sync are always stuck on one thread.
https://godotengine.org/article/why-does-godot-use-servers-and-rids

If you're more interested in different types of multi threading, look at page 18 onwards of: http://www.fragmentbuffer.com/docs/MultithreadingForGamedevStudents.pdf as it has quick summaries that you can Google up on.

- pipelining
- parallel threads
- job scheduler

And it also lists why multi threading is difficult, e.g. race conditions.

My post is mostly for Swa, I'm sure you already understand it, wizard.
 
My post is mostly for Swa, I'm sure you already understand it, wizard.
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Yeah I have no problem with CPU scaling, I do have a problem with the amount of work a CPU is able to do and the scope is quite limited to specific tasks only.Many moons back before physics cards came around it was the job of the CPU to calculate physics in part but as physics in general improved GPU's needed to step, even real time collision detection can be quite demanding.

Which means the tasks a CPU is able to do in realtime is from a fixed pool, which sort of limits the amount that you can gain from any amount of threads any ways, and that is specific to the multitasking architect of CPU's in general.
Which is why we have GPU's and why we will always have some sort of bottleneck concerning CPU's.
 
ToxicBunny said:
Are you going to answer the valid questions posed to you or try deflect them again?

BTW, you still haven't pointed us to the portion of the Windows EULA that grants them permission to mine crypto on your machine.... so lets start there shall we?
Click to expand...

And then deal with all the issues you claim are present regarding updates
And then we can move on to what no longer works .......
 
Geoff.D said:
And then deal with all the issues you claim are present regarding updates
And then we can move on to what no longer works .......
Click to expand...

Of course.. but please, priorities..... we need to keep things simple and one question at a time.
 
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