Official June 2014 Tests Thread

[FoXtroT]

Jan is used effectively as a battering ram in Super 15 but at international level he's not going to run over people!! He's so good on his feet, would like to see him searching for space rather than taking the man on over and over again. JP is not an international outside centre. Adequate at Super 15 level but not at test level, forget it.

I agree with you on JP. He is not a Test centre, he has always been a lazy player but you cant have that in a centre; his laziness in defence was what opened up the gap for Cuthbert to score.

Also thought Serfontein was looking a bit too much like Olivier, hope he starts attacking the space, passing and using his feet more. He has great potential.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I agree with you on JP. He is not a Test centre, he has always been a lazy player but you cant have that in a centre; his laziness in defence was what opened up the gap for Cuthbert to score.

Also thought Serfontein was looking a bit too much like Olivier, hope he starts attacking the space, passing and using his feet more. He has great potential.

Agreed on JP.

I think Serfontein is coached to play that way. Much like Engelbrecht was. Always runs crashball.

 

[Devill]

Sandman OrbitalD and Foxtrot.... You are all forgetting something, the job of the inside center is not to attack the space, it is to draw an extra opponent thus creating space, then the inside center needs to offload. The half gap should then be exposed by the outside center.

OrbitalD - I agree with you that if Pollard keeps improving it will be tough for Goosen to force himself back into the team.

Also I am sure that if this was not such an experimental (read first game together) center pairing both JP and Jan would look a lot more threatening.

 

[sand_man]

Sandman OrbitalD and Foxtrot.... You are all forgetting something, the job of the inside center is not to attack the space, it is to draw an extra opponent thus creating space, then the inside center needs to offload. The half gap should then be exposed by the outside center.

100% correct but part of running at defenders entails changing angles of attack forcing them to change their angles of defense. Perhaps Morne's inability to actually get the backline moving resulted in Jan running straight at defenders and at ineffective angles with little or no use of the sidestep. I don't recall him making it after the advantage line all that often if at all. Welsh defense is not the worst in the world but far from the best. In sharp contrast look at how often Tana Umaga beats a defender with an in and off.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Sandman OrbitalD and Foxtrot.... You are all forgetting something, the job of the inside center is not to attack the space, it is to draw an extra opponent thus creating space, then the inside center needs to offload. The half gap should then be exposed by the outside center.

OrbitalD - I agree with you that if Pollard keeps improving it will be tough for Goosen to force himself back into the team.

Also I am sure that if this was not such an experimental (read first game together) center pairing both JP and Jan would look a lot more threatening.

Yeah, but neither of the centres did that on Saturday. It was up to Willie and Du Preez to find or create space. It could be a combination issue, as a result of them not having played together. But I still don't think JP belongs there. He's too lazy a player for centre. Compare him with Conrad Smith, for example.

 

[Devill]

100% correct but part of running at defenders entails changing angles of attack forcing them to change their angles of defense. Perhaps Morne's inability to actually get the backline moving resulted in Jan running straight at defenders and at ineffective angles with little or no use of the sidestep. I don't recall him making it after the advantage line all that often if at all. Welsh defense is not the worst in the world but far from the best. In sharp contrast look at how often Tana Umaga beats a defender with an in and off.

True. I think he warranted another chance at 12 though. I would love to see him and de villiers as a combo.

Yeah, but neither of the centres did that on Saturday. It was up to Willie and Du Preez to find or create space. It could be a combination issue, as a result of them not having played together. But I still don't think JP belongs there. He's too lazy a player for centre. Compare him with Conrad Smith, for example.

True. JP in my opinion is a temporary measure and not by far my first choice.

 

[ponder]

How's this for another poor decision? Scotland pipped Canada 19-17 but they were bloody lucky.

Appalling decision, if that's leading with the elbow and this is a precedent then we might as well make rugby a non-contact sport. Stoopid kiwi ref

 

[APoc184]

If that is a leading elbow then Bismarck will be red carded each and every time he runs with the ball.

 

[GreGorGy]

If that is a leading elbow then Bismarck will be red carded each and every time he runs with the ball.

...and this doesn't happen ?

 

[Devill]

Sooooooo, what winning margin will please all the people? 20? 40? 193.6?

 

[APoc184]

I think Wales will come at as much more disciplined on defence than before. Going to be a closer game this time round.

They will specifically look to neutralise Willie, which is why I hope Serfontein has been given the clear by Heyneke to run into spaces and look for off loads rather than crash ball the whole time.

I'm still worried about our scrum. Wasn't as bad as against the World XV but we weren't in total control either.

I'm putting Duane down as man of the match back in his home town.

Boks by 11.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Yeah, also expecting a tighter game. Though we'll still take it.

The way Duane's playing Spies won't get near that no.8 jersey ever again.

 

[APoc184]

Yeah, also expecting a tighter game. Though we'll still take it.

The way Duane's playing Spies won't get near that no.8 jersey ever again.

You forget who our coach is and that he said as long as he is coach, Spies will always be part of the Bok team....

Hopefully he includes waterboy in his definition of team.

 

[GreGorGy]

Sooooooo, what winning margin will please all the people? 20? 40? 193.6?

Up to 20, the complaint will be about how we can almost lose to such a pathetic team. Over 20 the complaint will be that the match means nothing because obviously the opponents aren't up to the task. You can't win.

 

[OGroteKoning]

Up to 20, the complaint will be about how we can almost lose to such a pathetic team. Over 20 the complaint will be that the match means nothing because obviously the opponents aren't up to the task. You can't win.

1 point will do. It's test rugby BUT bad play will be bashed. This is test rugby!

 

[OrbitalDawn]

You forget who our coach is and that he said as long as he is coach, Spies will always be part of the Bok team....

Hopefully he includes waterboy in his definition of team.

 

[Devill]

I think Wales will come at as much more disciplined on defence than before. Going to be a closer game this time round.

They will specifically look to neutralise Willie, which is why I hope Serfontein has been given the clear by Heyneke to run into spaces and look for off loads rather than crash ball the whole time.

I'm still worried about our scrum. Wasn't as bad as against the World XV but we weren't in total control either.

I'm putting Duane down as man of the match back in his home town.

Boks by 11.

I agree with this post

I should think the Boks would have done well to beat the welsh by 10+ points.

Yeah, also expecting a tighter game. Though we'll still take it.

The way Duane's playing Spies won't get near that no.8 jersey ever again.

One can only hope, but I know HM is a big Vermuelen fan, and he has said as much when he was still with the Bulls.

You forget who our coach is and that he said as long as he is coach, Spies will always be part of the Bok team....

Hopefully he includes waterboy in his definition of team.

May I ask if you heard him say that, or if it was a conclusion that you came to from one of his speeches?

As far as I know HM has rated Vermeulen higher than Spies for a long time ,even when he (HM) was still with the Bulls and Vermeulen was with the Cheetahs.

Up to 20, the complaint will be about how we can almost lose to such a pathetic team. Over 20 the complaint will be that the match means nothing because obviously the opponents aren't up to the task. You can't win.

This is very true. I am sure even when Mallet was re-writing the history books and smashing other teams left right and center there were people complaining.

1 point will do. It's test rugby BUT bad play will be bashed. This is test rugby!

This is true but the lines van become slightly blurry as one team can make another team look a lot worse than they are by amplifying their faults and marginalizing their strengths.

 

[APoc184]

May I ask if you heard him say that, or if it was a conclusion that you came to from one of his speeches?

As far as I know HM has rated Vermeulen higher than Spies for a long time ,even when he (HM) was still with the Bulls and Vermeulen was with the Cheetahs.

http://www.rugby-talk.com/2013/04/meyer-ill-never-drop-spies/

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has revealed that he will never omit Bulls captain Pierre Spies from his squad.


No 8 Spies, who has been criticized in some quarters for his performances over the past year, was on Tuesday included in a 36-man Springbok training group named ahead of the Incoming Test Series against Italy, Samoa and Scotland in June.

Meyer told the ArenaSport website that Spies is probably the most important member of his squad.

“This group is by no means a final one for the June Tests and could still change in the coming months, but what I can commit to is that Pierre Spies will always be a part of the Springbok setup, certainly as long as I’m in charge.

“You have to understand that we need Pierre. There is no one else quite like him in South African rugby. No one in any of the other local franchises can do what he does.

“Those big muscles, those strong arms, those thick, immense thighs. They are all a necessary cog in the Bok wheel,” said Meyer.

The first of two planned national training camps will be held in Cape Town from 14 to 16 April. The three-day camp will start on Sunday, the day after the Super Rugby derby between the Stormers and the Sharks, and conclude next Tuesday.

No Kings players were considered for the first training camp. They return from their Australasian tour this weekend and will be in contention for the second planned training camp, at the end of May in Durban.

After reading the original post on ArenaSport website I think it might have been tongue in the cheek. http://www.arenasport.co.za/2013/04/09/heyneke-exclusive-spies-best-in-his-position/

 

[Devill]

http://www.rugby-talk.com/2013/04/meyer-ill-never-drop-spies/

After reading the original post on ArenaSport website I think it might have been tongue in the cheek. http://www.arenasport.co.za/2013/04/09/heyneke-exclusive-spies-best-in-his-position/

I am sure it was.

With all that time he spends in the gym, he’s able to carry the bags of 10 squad members at one time. This allows us to save and spend wisely in other areas, like on movie nights we can now afford DStv Box Office.”

On another note.

May I ask which Bulls players do not deserve to be there, and who whould you replace them with.

Ps this is aimed at all, not at Apoc. Perhaps someone like M-Helix would like to comment.

 

[GreGorGy]

I am sure it was.



On another note.

May I ask which Bulls players do not deserve to be there, and who whould you replace them with.

Ps this is aimed at all, not at Apoc.

which Bulls players do not deserve to be there: Olivier.
replace with: A broken-down wheelchair driven by a one-legged blind granny who knows to rather pass than do a stupid dance this way, that way and run into negative space to knock-on.

Perhaps someone like M-Helix would like to comment.

He'd say all of them including HM. He'd replace them with a shark.