Official Man United Supporters' Thread

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He wanted to demote Rene so im not surprised.

The only ''demotion'' Rene would have endured was that Moyes, a life-long ''hands-on'' coach, was going to oversee first-team coaching, which was Rene's job under Fergie.

I'm quite tired of this notion being punted by the anti-Moyes brigade that he waltzed into Carrington with an axe and hacked into the coaching set-up. He sat down with all of the current coaches and tried to glean as much as he could from them. Yes, there may not have been offers to Phelan and Steele, but Moyes was more than ready to work with Fergie's right-hand man, quite arguably the most important of the lot, to the point that he was offered the assistant manager's position. Round only came in as assistant because Rene snubbed the offer.
 
This is from January, but it is an article written by former Goodison Park favourite, Tim Cahill.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...anchester-united/story-e6frf4a3-1226803934362

What makes Moyes such a good manager? He has a wonderful ability to get the best out of players. Look at the courage of playing Adnan Januzaj, an 18-year-old, when the pressure is on. He's found another level in England striker Danny Welbeck, as well.

Look at my scenario: I'm no world beater but he got the best out of me. Staying back and doing crossing sessions with him, working on my movements, being in the video room going over players with me, analysing teams, having the sheets for the players I'm playing against.

He never let me rest on my laurels. Despite our personal relationship, he would always tell me if I was out of form or if I needed a kick up the backside. Manchester United, Sir Alex Ferguson, those at the club: they can see those attributes. They signed him to a long-term contract, because he epitomises what they stand for. He's honest, loyal and he gives everything.

And he considers your personal and family life too - whether it's pulling you into the office, making sure everyone's fine - my kids or my parents. There was always time for a phone call or a coffee. Sure, there were the odd arguments too, but they made us stronger, because they were constructive, particular in terms of playing, to keep me on track.

That sort of man management will see things turn around at Old Trafford. He is strong on and off the park. Some of the decisions you make in life - as a footballer, or as a father, for example - he makes you see the reality of what's important.

Look at the way he's dealt with Wayne Rooney. It is unbelievable how he's playing at the moment.

The main thing he does is focuses on the players' well-being and keeping that changing room really together and fighting for the same purpose.

He'll believe in you.

I'll never forget the time he and his staff invested in me. He always told me to be the best I can be - I remember at a certain point he started playing me as a striker and he turned to me and said: "I'm not going to buy a striker". I thought: what! He said: "you're going to be the striker". And I played 10-15 games, scored loads of goals and he left me there.

Also, what I've been saying. Clearly the Vidics, Ferdinands (okay, his back is knackered), Evras and RVPs have not thrown their lot in this season and look like they're just cashing cheques at the best of times. Give Moyes his players and not Fergie's players and we'll see a change. Players that want to play for Moyes and not want to remember back to their Fergie glory years.

Will this guy ever be a legend? Probably not, but he'll do a damn sight better than he has once he's given the chance to do his thing. The joke is this side has looked anything but a stoic Moyes-coached Everton side. At the best of times it looks like it is going to concede a goal any second and at the worst of times it looks like it is of the verge of shipping three, four, five goals. I think it was one of the pundits post-Villa that said United look like a wobbled heavyweight boxer, just waiting for that one punch to send him to the canvas. That was not an Everton side. He can sort the mess out, but he needs a chance to do so and he needs players that are willing to fight and buy-in.
 
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The only ''demotion'' Rene would have endured was that Moyes, a life-long ''hands-on'' coach, was going to oversee first-team coaching, which was Rene's job under Fergie.

I'm quite tired of this notion being punted by the anti-Moyes brigade that he waltzed into Carrington with an axe and hacked into the coaching set-up. He sat down with all of the current coaches and tried to glean as much as he could from them. Yes, there may not have been offers to Phelan and Steele, but Moyes was more than ready to work with Fergie's right-hand man, quite arguably the most important of the lot, to the point that he was offered the assistant manager's position. Round only came in as assistant because Rene snubbed the offer.

Exactly my point, Rene had this to say: “Moyes is very hands-on. My role, as it had been with Sir Alex, would have been stripped to the bone.

“I sat down with Moyes and said that the way he wanted me to work under him would lead to frictions.”

Owen does put it nicely with the coaches http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...the-champions-are-still-top-four-quality.html

Although there is so many other things Moyes has done wrong, the "anti Moyes brigade" wont be short of fire power without the coaches excuse.

Didnt you post a Robby Savage article recently?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/robbie-savage-column-manchester-united-3292761
 
Exactly my point, Rene had this to say: “Moyes is very hands-on. My role, as it had been with Sir Alex, would have been stripped to the bone.

“I sat down with Moyes and said that the way he wanted me to work under him would lead to frictions.”

Owen does put it nicely with the coaches http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...the-champions-are-still-top-four-quality.html

Although there is so many other things Moyes has done wrong, the "anti Moyes brigade" wont be short of fire power without the coaches excuse.

Didnt you post a Robby Savage article recently?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/robbie-savage-column-manchester-united-3292761

Savage does make some very good points.
 
Exactly my point, Rene had this to say: “Moyes is very hands-on. My role, as it had been with Sir Alex, would have been stripped to the bone.

“I sat down with Moyes and said that the way he wanted me to work under him would lead to frictions.”

Owen does put it nicely with the coaches http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...the-champions-are-still-top-four-quality.html

Although there is so many other things Moyes has done wrong, the "anti Moyes brigade" wont be short of fire power without the coaches excuse.

Didnt you post a Robby Savage article recently?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/robbie-savage-column-manchester-united-3292761

Therein lies what I perceive to be an issue at the club currently; ''My role, as it had been with Sir Alex,".

So you'd have lost some of your toys, Rene, but you would have been right there for Moyes when he needed help connecting with or understanding the likes of RVP (Rene had a hand in his arrival) & Evra, and other key players that have been guilty of half-arsing it up and down the pitch. Look at how Rooney is plug and play. Aside from that just being who he is, Moyes would have had a good grasp on who Rooney is as a person.

And yes, I did post a Savage article.

The issue I have with what he said there was criticising Moyes for playing Cleverley, Carrick and Fellaini. I've gone blue in the face with regards to this small point: Fergie left him a weak midfield and a dilapidated defence, so what are his alternatives? Do we really think Giggs and Fletcher are that much closer to Toure, Fernandinho, Silva, Kroos & Schweinsteiger than Cleverley and Fellaini are?

Actually, in the link I posted Savage highlights the squad's weaknesses, so why the round-a-bout? Tssk tssk, Savage, not man enough to back your horse?
 
The issue I have with what he said there was criticising Moyes for playing Cleverley, Carrick and Fellaini. I've gone blue in the face with regards to this small point: Fergie left him a weak midfield and a dilapidated defence, so what are his alternatives? Do we really think Giggs and Fletcher are that much closer to Toure, Fernandinho, Silva, Kroos & Schweinsteiger than Cleverley and Fellaini are?

So what you're saying is its Fergies fault and the at players fault? Moyes not at fault? I think you've really swallowed the Moyes excuses.
 
So what you're saying is its Fergies fault and the at players fault? Moyes not at fault? I think you've really swallowed the Moyes excuses.

It is a culmination of the three, with Moyes being the convenient scapegoat.

In your heart of hearts, what do you see when you see the names Carrick, Giggs, Cleverley, Anderson & Fletcher?
 
It is a culmination of the three, with Moyes being the convenient scapegoat.

In your heart of hearts, what do you see when you see the names Carrick, Giggs, Cleverley, Anderson & Fletcher?

I see an improvement on Djemba Djemba, Kleberson and O shea, a midfield that managed to get 3rd place under Ferguson. Those guys look much worse than they actually are under Moyes (whos also added Fellaini). Quite frankly it doesnt sit well with me that you are willing to blame Ferguson in order to make excuses for Moyes. I feel its become more Moyes United than Manchester United.
 
I said it before, I'll say it again. It's a perfect storm of problems. Aging squad, new management at the wrong time, misguided tactics at times, movement away at director level.

I have faith that Moyes can do more with this squad next season, but it had better be a big improvement.

I'd love for Moyes to bring in Carlos Queiroz from Iran as Assistant Manager. The Glazers should throw money at him to come over. I think it would be a world of difference.
 
Therein lies what I perceive to be an issue at the club currently; ''My role, as it had been with Sir Alex,". The issue I have with what he said there was criticising Moyes for playing Cleverley, Carrick and Fellaini. I've gone blue in the face with regards to this small point: Fergie left him a weak midfield and a dilapidated defence, so what are his alternatives? Do we really think Giggs and Fletcher are that much closer to Toure, Fernandinho, Silva, Kroos & Schweinsteiger than Cleverley and Fellaini are?

Carrick was voted to the EPL XI last season.

Also what about giving a youth midfielder a chance? We all know Moyes doesn't like youth.

Everyone is going on about Moyes bringing Januzaj into the first team but he would've cracked it even if Moyes wasn't there.

Moyes was forced to give Januzaj a first team place as everyone was raving about him (Fergie included) and Moyes would've been crucified if he didn't promote him.
 
I said it before, I'll say it again. It's a perfect storm of problems. Aging squad, new management at the wrong time, misguided tactics at times, movement away at director level.

Ageing squad is actually quite a myth, i think our average squad age is the 4th lowest in the league? (Will look for confirmation on this though). At the start of the season we only had 4 players over 30, out of those 4 only Carrick and Evra were playing regularly.
 
I see an improvement on Djemba Djemba, Kleberson and O shea, a midfield that managed to get 3rd place under Ferguson. Those guys look much worse than they actually are under Moyes (whos also added Fellaini). Quite frankly it doesnt sit well with me that you are willing to blame Ferguson in order to make excuses for Moyes. I feel its become more Moyes United than Manchester United.

Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba and O'Shea (Why not throw in that epic fail Veron while we're going down memory lane) are not the barometers one should use. They were all garbage and predate the current bunch by close on a decade.

In this era of a far more competitive league at the top, how does United's midfield compare against its peers? Would any of the players Moyes inherited start ahead of City's first choice? Will any of them supplant Lampard and Ramires? Could any of them dislodge Gerrard? How about Ramsey and Arteta? After the way Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta dismantled Rooney, Giggs and Carrick, does an even older Giggs and a less reliable Carrick stand a chance against Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Kroos?

In my opinion and based on how he came into the season, Carrick would have been the only United midfielder that would have stood a chance at starting for any of the teams contending for the title.

I don;t know why Fergie has to be off limits. I'd be damned if anyone tries to convince me that his last squad was anywhere near a great Fergie team. It was good enough to beat bumbling teams from London and across the city last season, but it is not up to the top-3 this season. The talent on offer is 4th/5th place material. They're a bit off that, but they hang on to beat Fulham and eek out a draw against Newcastle and Everton at home and they're 5th, 6 points behind a slumping Arsenal and Champions League football is still very much a possibility.
 
Here it is :
Team P Average Age
1 Queens Park RangersQueens Park Rangers 38 27.75
2 Stoke CityStoke City 38 27.69
3 FulhamFulham 38 27.30
4 Swansea CitySwansea City 38 26.45
5 Norwich CityNorwich City 38 26.26
6 Wigan AthleticWigan Athletic 38 26.24
7 West Bromwich AlbionWest Bromwich Albion 38 26.08
8 EvertonEverton 38 25.94
9 ReadingReading 38 25.73
10 Manchester CityManchester City 38 25.65
11 SouthamptonSouthampton 38 25.50
12 Aston VillaAston Villa 38 25.49
13 West Ham UnitedWest Ham United 38 25.35
14 ChelseaChelsea 38 25.16
15 Newcastle UnitedNewcastle United 38 25.15
16 Manchester UnitedManchester United 38 25.02
17 SunderlandSunderland 38 25.00
18 Tottenham HotspurTottenham Hotspur 38 24.93
19 ArsenalArsenal 38 24.04
20 LiverpoolLiverpool 38 23.79

http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/lfc-are-premier-league-s-youngest
 
Carrick was voted to the EPL XI last season.

Also what about giving a youth midfielder a chance? We all know Moyes doesn't like youth.

Everyone is going on about Moyes bringing Januzaj into the first team but he would've cracked it even if Moyes wasn't there.

Moyes was forced to give Januzaj a first team place as everyone was raving about him (Fergie included) and Moyes would've been crucified if he didn't promote him.

I never said anything negative about Carrick in that post.

I agree with youth, I'd have taken a chance and tried to freshen it up, as that is what I believe the squad needs anyway, a fresh approach.
 
Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba and O'Shea (Why not throw in that epic fail Veron while we're going down memory lane) are not the barometers one should use. They were all garbage and predate the current bunch by close on a decade.

In this era of a far more competitive league at the top, how does United's midfield compare against its peers? Would any of the players Moyes inherited start ahead of City's first choice? Will any of them supplant Lampard and Ramires? Could any of them dislodge Gerrard? How about Ramsey and Arteta? After the way Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta dismantled Rooney, Giggs and Carrick, does an even older Giggs and a less reliable Carrick stand a chance against Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Kroos?

In my opinion and based on how he came into the season, Carrick would have been the only United midfielder that would have stood a chance at starting for any of the teams contending for the title.

The midfield has issues i dont doubt that, but i also know they are much better than you're giving them credit for. Cleverly was actually pretty good last season, he had some really good games against City, Arsenal , Newcastle etc. Fletcher is also a good player (granted we dont know how much the his injury has effected him), add to that Moyes paid 27 million for Fellaini. Our attacking players on paper are the best in the league imo, tell me who has Kagawa, Januzaj, Rvp , Rooney, Mata, Hernandez and Welbeck to choose from? Chelsea have no real striker to talk of yet they are challenging, its a testament to a proper manager who can take a squad with obvious deficiencies in attack and defence and still be competitive.

I don;t know why Fergie has to be off limits. I'd be damned if anyone tries to convince me that his last squad was anywhere near a great Fergie team. It was good enough to beat bumbling teams from London and across the city last season, but it is not up to the top-3 this season. The talent on offer is 4th/5th place material. They're a bit off that, but they hang on to beat Fulham and eek out a draw against Newcastle and Everton at home and they're 5th, 6 points behind a slumping Arsenal and Champions League football is still very much a possibility.

Nonsense and im going to post stats to show you why.

1) Ferguson has never finished below 3rd in the PL
2) Third place would be challenging for the title at this stage.
3) Barring 1 season when United already had the title wrapped up, they have never been worse off than 6 points from the previous season. That would be at worse 83 points this season, you do the math and see where you think that points total will leave us at the end of this season.
4) Even if i were to accept the top teams have improved drastically, that doesnt explain all Uniteds dropped points against the lower teams
5) City and Liverpool have never done the double over us in a season, so they would both have less points.
6) Martinez is 6 points away from breaking Moyes' all time points record.
 
Regarding Ferguson, i can only imagine these comments from Moyes about squad talent and how he would have battled wont go down well and i sense Ferguson has made this known to Moyes. Bob Cass a friend of Ferguson's in the media has already implied that Ferguson is distancing himself from Moyes and his future. Michael Owen also a friend of Fergies who owns horses with him, wrote that article i posted earlier where Moyes should be getting more out of the squad and he only has himself to blame. Both of these articles came out straight after those comments were made by Moyes, perhaps im joining dots that aren't there but it all seems plausible to me because of how Fergie uses the media and who he uses.
 
Ageing squad is actually quite a myth, i think our average squad age is the 4th lowest in the league? (Will look for confirmation on this though). At the start of the season we only had 4 players over 30, out of those 4 only Carrick and Evra were playing regularly.

Aging squad isn't a myth, it's a squad game. Carrick, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra, RvP, Giggs, Fletcher. Our squad for the past few seasons have been based around Carrick, Vidic/Ferdinand (either with each other or with younger CB's), Evra, and last season, RvP. That's the spine of the team, and team leaders all around (RvP excepted). The only reason I mention the aging is because we never really had (except for a few fleeting matches back before Cleverly was injured) a team that was mostly based around young players. They've dotted in to fill in when first teamers have been injured. Jones has been a RB, CDM, CM and CB. Smalling has been a RB and CB. Cleverly is in and out. Kagawa hasn't been given a look in.

Who are our young players who have been consistently first team over the last couple of years when the entire team has been fit?

Rafael, DDG... ?



Here it is :
Team P Average Age

That's almost exactly a year old.
 
Also what about giving a youth midfielder a chance? We all know Moyes doesn't like youth.

Fellaini, Rooney, Rodwell, Barkley, Coleman, Osman, Vaughn, Hibbert, Anichebe. I don't think that's a valid critcism, especially since Moyes has used our young players so often this season.
 
Fellaini, Rooney, Rodwell, Barkley, Coleman, Osman, Vaughn, Hibbert, Anichebe. I don't think that's a valid critcism, especially since Moyes has used our young players so often this season.

The only 2 standout players in that list are Rooney and Barkley.

Rooney was a no brainer, much like Januzaj. Moyes would've been slaughtered if he didn't play him.

As for Barkley, he was sent out on loan last season, Moyes never played him. This season under Martinez, he's one of the best young players in England, being tipped for an England call up for the World Cup.
 
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