OMG I hate arrogant tanks

[BrianStephan]

I had a run in with a arrogent mage yesterday we were doing cant remember the name now not Old Kingdom but the other 1 thats much shorter. I wasnt concetrating at all cause its a hc and gear so high that its a no brainer was doing 2.5k dps and this damn mage starts swearing at me cause my dps in his standards was 2 low like wtf if it was a raid I would do 5.5k but not arsed with a stupid hc. Then this morning had a lvl 80 hunter has mainly 232 gear doing 700k dps like ok in Pit of Saron HC kicked him after a while lol

 

[f0xZA]

It does take a few seconds (3-5), to build aggro in a mob if you just run in. Its called intimidating shout, and you have thunder clap, cleave, Enrage as well as Shockwave.

Well just so you and the poster above you know ; its Demoralizing shout and it does very little threat wise, its used for the AP debuff. Intimidating shout is the one that makes your current target cower and the rest fear and would most likely cause chaos in any instance/raid.

 

[Cynicster]

700 DPS you mean... not 700k

 

[Oculate]

I had a run in with a arrogent mage yesterday we were doing cant remember the name now not Old Kingdom but the other 1 thats much shorter. I wasnt concetrating at all cause its a hc and gear so high that its a no brainer was doing 2.5k dps and this damn mage starts swearing at me cause my dps in his standards was 2 low like wtf if it was a raid I would do 5.5k but not arsed with a stupid hc. Then this morning had a lvl 80 hunter has mainly 232 gear doing 700k dps like ok in Pit of Saron HC kicked him after a while lol

More dps/less slacking tends to get hc's done faster

I've had hc's where after the run, I've done 49% of the overall dmg done :wtf:

 

[d3th_n1gG4]

700 DPS you mean... not 700k

Bah the one missing on the pug bingo, pure dps class doing triple digits

 

[J0n0]

Well just so you and the poster above you know ; its Demoralizing shout and it does very little threat wise, its used for the AP debuff. Intimidating shout is the one that makes your current target cower and the rest fear and would most likely cause chaos in any instance/raid.

Thats what I meant. I was just testing you all. Jokes. You're right, I hardly use intimidating shout, only when asked or the moment calls to. I mostly work on pictures (yes, i dont bother about names too much so got the muddled up. ) ) I know what it does though.

 

[Tinuva]

From 3.3 both the MD animation and buff are on the Hunter only and not the targeted party member.
Therefore you wouldn't've noticed if the Hunter MD'd you unless you were watching his buffs or looking at his toon instead of the mobs you were tanking...

ok smartass, not going to argue anymore. Regardless of all that, a tank still know whether a hunter uses it or not watching Omen, which is what I do and what started the whole argument with Pornolio. I might not have tanked for a 16k dps hunter, but I have done more than 8k tps (according to omen) on single target fights without a hunter and rogue in my group.

Incorrect, as a precaution one should always use threat reducing abilities (or stop DPS) before getting to 100% threat even if there is the 10%/30% threat safety net. The reason being that abilities like Feign Death and Vanish (possibly others too) have a far greater chance of being resisted once you go over 100% threat.
Also, you never know when you're going to crit like a mafaka which could result in an instant surge of threat far greater than 10% which at 120% means you are now the tank whereas at 80% or so you're still watching someone else taking in the face.

As for that, when tanking multiple adds with each dps'er on his/her own target, regardless of whether I add marks or not, this is the point where I am going to the let dps'er tank the mob. Usually they don't follow the marks anyways.


Generally speaking, my runs always go smooth. Thus far, only 2 runs haven't finished in the over 100 hc runs I did.

1. A hunter kept on ninja pulling while healer was oom, then feign death in the middle of the group and let the group take the dmg. This was the point both the healer and me left. I mean it take us less than 10 seconds to get a group so who cares if the dps stuffed up.

2. Healer left at start saying 28k hp for a tank is not enough (regardless of the fact I tanked that very same instance with that amount of HP before) and everyone else left.

Usually no one die, except for the 2 exceptions where dps just ran in and AoE'd a whole group before I even got there. So I doubt I am doing much wrong, as long as the healer and me stay alive we can finish most final mobs just fine.

 

[Crowley]

Then this morning had a lvl 80 hunter has mainly 232 gear doing 700k dps like ok in Pit of Saron HC kicked him after a while lol

You do know recount is broken at the moment and doesn't reflect the correct DPS for some people from other servers right? I had a tank who wanted to kick me on my lock because according to his recount I was also sitting on 700DPS. I linked my recount and he was quiet after that.

 

[SnowWar]

2 Things, take a screenie when you get a hunter doing 16k dps (single target, as AOE does not count) in the 5 man dungeons. I wanna see that :0

Tinuva, that healer in your point 2 was so retarded. I've healed you in just that one dungeon, just used Rejuv on you as you know (with some wg when others where taking some dmg) and it was immediately clear to me that you are a good tank and will continue on to be an excellent one when raiding.

 

[Pornolio]

16k dps is not possible on any 5 man heroic.
I don't think it was even ever claimed.
Only if there are encounter specific damage modifiers which there aren't.

Even 11k dps was done purely in a 25 man encounter with completely no interuptions in dps rotation.

Why are we even discussing crappy 5 man runs and tanking ???
When did skill become a factor running 5 mans ?

Maybe I am missing something ?

 

[J0n0]

ok smartass, not going to argue anymore. Regardless of all that, a tank still know whether a hunter uses it or not watching Omen, which is what I do and what started the whole argument with Pornolio. I might not have tanked for a 16k dps hunter, but I have done more than 8k tps (according to omen) on single target fights without a hunter and rogue in my group.
As for that, when tanking multiple adds with each dps'er on his/her own target, regardless of whether I add marks or not, this is the point where I am going to the let dps'er tank the mob. Usually they don't follow the marks anyways.

+1
Any tank with some half decent tanking experience should be able to see on Omen when a hunter is using misdirect or not. Threat shouldn't be shooting up and all over the place when they use it.

16k dps is not possible on any 5 man heroic.
I don't think it was even ever claimed.
Only if there are encounter specific damage modifiers which there aren't.

Even 11k dps was done purely in a 25 man encounter with completely no interuptions in dps rotation.

Why are we even discussing crappy 5 man runs and tanking ???
When did skill become a factor running 5 mans ?

Maybe I am missing something ?

I've done 10.5k in a 5 man HC, and tanking a pug with some random idiots that don't know how to control their aggro is frustrating to say the least. That's the topic, read the first page...:erm:

It's a lot more difficult to tank for people you've never played with before than to tank for a group you raid with on a weekly basis.

 

[Crowley]

I don't use Omen when I tank. I try to build the best aggro that I can, the DPS must make sure they stay below me or pray for a very good healer.

*edit*
Just saw that came off as the subject of the thread.

 

[Pornolio]

+1
I've done 10.5k in a 5 man HC, and tanking a pug with some random idiots that don't know how to control their aggro is frustrating to say the least. That's the topic, read the first page...:erm:

It's a lot more difficult to tank for people you've never played with before than to tank for a group you raid with on a weekly basis.

**sigh** Are you talking burst dps now, or sustained. I suggest you read the posts earlier very slowly. The topic went from OMG I hate arrogant tanks to "Damn I am imba, R0AR I tank like pro for scrubs in man 5 pug runs!!"

Damn is this the state the game turned to ???

Nowdays if you manage to end up in a LFG pug with one or two high dps players, even if they pull aggro which they do most of the time, they nuke the mobs down by the time they reach the ranged dps'er. If I pull aggro which happens quite often, Detterence tank the mob and he will be dead in any case while I move him back to the AOE area.

If you as a tank in low level tanking gear succeed in holding threat, its most like rogues + hunters doing their jobs with threat transfer abilities, and resetting aggro at every possible available cooldown... dont fool yourself, you are not that good that you can tank for players of those gear levels without paying some penalty. The game has evolved from skill > all, to facerolling 99% of the 5 man dungeons in scrub blue / green gear. Nowdays any pug can steam roll through a 5 man instance.

Damn my DK nub which dinged 80, 2 days back is pretty much almost fully kitted out in 5 man Epic normal / heroic gear. The only 5 man heroic instance which requires proper tank setup is HoR. AOE tanking setups + DK's that know how to silencing + DG casters into the tanking AOE group.

Now, back on topic pls... geesh !

 

[Skurm]

I never used to bother with Omen much, but lately I'm finding it more and more valuable in trying to make sure I'm generating as much hate as possible.

 

[J0n0]

**sigh** Are you talking burst dps now, or sustained. I suggest you read the posts earlier very slowly. The topic went from OMG I hate arrogant tanks to "Damn I am imba, R0AR I tank like pro for scrubs in man 5 pug runs!!"

1. Erm, was sustained dps, I don't count bursts on a single mob.

2. I suggest you page back and read your own posts very slowly as well, seeing youre one of the lot going omg im so imba with my uber dps on the boss but our tanks are so imba they hold aggro.

Damn is this the state the game turned to ???

Yes, people love talking about how much their dps is and even post screenshots. It's what people do best, boast about how much better they are than the others.

Nowdays if you manage to end up in a LFG pug with one or two high dps players, even if they pull aggro which they do most of the time, they nuke the mobs down by the time they reach the ranged dps'er. If I pull aggro which happens quite often, Detterence tank the mob and he will be dead in any case while I move him back to the AOE area.

Wow you're pure awesomeness. You complained about this kind of posting just now then?

If you as a tank in low level tanking gear succeed in holding threat, its most like rogues + hunters doing their jobs with threat transfer abilities, and resetting aggro at every possible available cooldown... dont fool yourself, you are not that good that you can tank for players of those gear levels without paying some penalty. The game has evolved from skill > all, to facerolling 99% of the 5 man dungeons in scrub blue / green gear. Nowdays any pug can steam roll through a 5 man instance.

Most of them don't do that hence them pulling the aggro and blaming the tank for being useless.

Now, back on topic pls... geesh !

You go off topic then tell everyone to get back on topic? Anyway, im done. Not here to be a douche and turn threads into some sour arguements etc. I have better things to do.

 

[Pornolio]

1. Erm, was sustained dps, I don't count bursts on a single mob.

2. I suggest you page back and read your own posts very slowly as well, seeing youre one of the lot going omg im so imba with my uber dps on the boss but our tanks are so imba they hold aggro.

Wow you're pure awesomeness. You complained about this kind of posting just now then?

You go off topic then tell everyone to get back on topic? Anyway, im done. Not here to be a douche and turn threads into some sour arguements etc. I have better things to do.

Ok firstly ... be carefull in your dps claims... you might just end up with more mud in your face than you can handle. We are talking 5 man runs. Not 25 man runs. I have merely backed my statements with regards to tanks holding aggro and I laid a LOT of emphasis on the fact that GEAR LEVELS are important to a tank, esspecially if he tanks for higher level dps guys. How is that not relevant to this discussion ???

The only reason I linked the screenshot was to show just how a good tank can operate when pushed to the limit. Not too shoot them down. Some tanks are damn good, not all suck. If it will make you feel better, next time I will link a screenshot from some other guild run since it makes you believe I am bragging. k ?

The reason I stated I have to use detterence, is to just explain to you that we as dps classes have to react quickly on our feet when we see situations get out of control. Its not hard or rocket science, but its something we need to be aware of. Its not just all up to the tank. We have to time and save our cooldowns for such situations. I am now referring to deterrence, FD, readiness(if you are specced for it) etc.

Me going off topic... lovely. Scroll back...

Ok baai ! close the door on your way out. Dont come back until you can post something meaningfull.

 

[Skurm]

In his defense, this thread was originally about the frustration people have with tanks in 5man pickup groups. Yes 5mans are ezsauce if everyones geared and on the same page, but the point of pugs is that more often they're not. What makes pug heroics sometimes hard isnt the content - most of it IS retardedly easy - , but the random people you're playing with. I've run groups where it's a 15 minute cakewalk, and groups where on the exact same dungeon we wipe on trash 3 times. My style etc remained the same, but impatient dps doing the pulling, healers afking after a pull, rogues screwing around in stealth and aggroing 3 packs, nobody ever decursing etc etc etc can turn something easy into a nightmare.

 

[Cynicster]

ok smartass, not going to argue anymore.

Looks like I hit a nerve...

Anyway look, I originally started the argument that maybe your claim to fame on holding aggro on a 8k DPS Hunter may have been due to his proper usage of the tools he has at hand since you did state that you were undergeared. I wasn't trying to ruin your parade, just stating that maybe he was behind the fact that you managed to hold aggro on him.

As to my smartass'edness, I was merely correcting you on known facts (especially the new MD). No need to take it personally. We all make mistakes, learn from each other to end up being wiser and play better in the end.

Regardless of all that, a tank still know whether a hunter uses it or not watching Omen

You could've just said that and we wouldn't've had this argument

1. A hunter kept on ninja pulling while healer was oom, then feign death in the middle of the group and let the group take the dmg. This was the point both the healer and me left. I mean it take us less than 10 seconds to get a group so who cares if the dps stuffed up.

That wasn't a Hunter, that was a Huntard.
Hate people who waste other's time in instances and raids with such childishness...

 

[J0n0]

Ok firstly ... be carefull in your dps claims... you might just end up with more mud in your face than you can handle. We are talking 5 man runs. Not 25 man runs. I have merely backed my statements with regards to tanks holding aggro and I laid a LOT of emphasis on the fact that GEAR LEVELS are important to a tank, esspecially if he tanks for higher level dps guys. How is that not relevant to this discussion ???

I say what I mean and I mean what I say. Got that high dps in a Nexus pug. Nothing to be chuffed about because in other HCs i get between 2k and 4k. 25 mans is obviously better because of the time of the fights. Gear levels is very important, but as skurm said, in pugs youll never get people with evenly matched gear and random idiots that cant manage aggro. Yet, if you cant tank or play your char properly, your gear wont compensate or make you any better. Neither does it compensate completely for the high dps'ers that don't back down on aggro. (It helps to a point. So nuff arguing about that please. )

The only reason I linked the screenshot was to show just how a good tank can operate when pushed to the limit. Not too shoot them down. Some tanks are damn good, not all suck. If it will make you feel better, next time I will link a screenshot from some other guild run since it makes you believe I am bragging. k ?

I didnt see that you posted the screenshot so I apologize, but I have seen people going on about their dps etc and posting pics of it. Though inn a way it did seem like you're showing off that dps scores a little. (I dont know your char name so you could be bottom of that list I wont know. )

The reason I stated I have to use detterence, is to just explain to you that we as dps classes have to react quickly on our feet when we see situations get out of control. Its not hard or rocket science, but its something we need to be aware of. Its not just all up to the tank. We have to time and save our cooldowns for such situations. I am now referring to deterrence, FD, readiness(if you are specced for it) etc.

I wish more dps' thought and played that way. Unfortunately I come accross more people that don't use any of those and choose the worst places to stand .

Ok baai ! close the door on your way out. Dont come back until you can post something meaningfull.

Sorry but I didnt say im leaving...

 

[Pornolio]

Cool

I am also done arguing about crap ...
And yes I completely agree with you that LFG / Pugging can open up your 5 man runs with the worst of the worst.

I had a "huntard" the other day that could hardly speak a word of English, and everytime he pulled aggro on mobs which arent suppose to be pulled... he just spammed "sory sory sory sory sory"... Even think his pet was on aggressive mode in Timed Culling of Strat run... you can imagine the poor tank...