OMG I hate arrogant tanks

Woops, I meant to say I was level 79 at the time. 2 Random instances later I ended up in Upgard Pinnacle again, same gear, different group finished it with no problem. I guess the other healer probably joined random normal by mistake and expected a heroic geared tank.

Since then though I reached level 80 and ran a few ToC 5 normals, but I am not ready to tank heroics just yet. I want at least another 2-4k extra hp and another 10 defence, atm I am on 525 but need to be on 535 for heroic. 540 is only needed once you start raiding naxx 10/25. At least that is what all the tanking websites say like www.tankspot.com/forums/ (my favourite, always watch that priest's videos - she is kinda cute) and http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/

I will add this though, some comments I have heard from healers and dps that did runs with me while leveling.

Shadow Priest - Love it, never pull aggro. (he did 6k dps on a huge trash pack in HoS)
Tree Druid - You are very easy to heal
Retradin - At last, a real tank!

I am sure I don't do much wrong, people just expect easy runs by using gear instead of skill.
 
Make no mistake... the gear is a very important aspect in the game, even when it comes to tanking. You CANNOT tank sufficiently for guys in ilevel258/ ilevel264 gear with sub par level gear.

I would like to see you hold aggro on a fully TOC 25 man heroic geared hunter with 1400 ArP. Pulling aggro off a tank is _no_ effort if you actually know your dps rotations, the trick is to dish out 7/8k dps without pulling the mobs off the tank. Problem with the pug setups you guys are talking about... 99% of the time you are grouped with guys that sit with scrub gear.

From my personal experience, I did find pala's to be slightly better at keeping aggro than warriors, even if the warrior do give me vigileance.
 
Look hunters are beasts when it comes to TPS, however I feel wariors are better at single target tps than paladins. Although I will admit there came times where I stopped spamming my defensive abilities and instead started spamming only my TPS macro. For now thats the only way to stay ahead of 6k dps hunters (which is what I just had in 2 heroics). The missdirect makes a HUGE difference though, that headstart is all a warrior really need.

I just watch omen, if someone comes close, which is not always its over to TPS macro only. Works a charm really.

ps. Its insane how fast a 80 can gear nowadays. I barely hit 80 today already doing heroics. Personally I like the heroics more now, with the insane dpsers I get stuff die so fast I don;t have to worry about staying alive, in fact the healers are so overgeared they are bored even with me whose gear is still around ilevel 187 mostly with like 3 ilvl 200 items.

Edit: Actually did one better. Kept aggro over a hunter who did just over 8k dps. Was insane but it worked :)

skill >>>>> http://www.restricted.co.za/upload/WoWScrnShot_010210_221004.jpg

But tbh, hunters have all the tools to not pull aggro, its completely unacceptable that they go ape **** on TPS, especially in a heroic where the tools do not get resisted.

None the less, there will be people out there like me who will go out of their way to beat the odds.
 
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I have played all the roles. Tanks, healer and dps. When I was tanking I always made sure the healer was ready. For trash, I didnt really worry about the dps. When it came to the boss, I made sure the whole group was ready.

When healing, I never found a tank who didnt make sure I was ready, but that was in TBC.

Since wotlk I have been playing my warlock. I have done many pugs where the tank doesnt give a toss about anyones mana, including the healer. Mages who dont give you mana biscuits, paladins and druids who dont give buffs.

In one heroic, the tank just kept going and going and then got pissed off when he died. The healer quit. I quit. Got another group an hour or so later.

I have done the ICC dungeons on heroic and havent bothered to pug them again. I only go when someone in the guilds wants to go. I couldnt be bothered with emblems. I prefer ripping my epics of the bleeding corpses of raid bosses :D
 
lol yea, I wish I had the balls to let a tank die like that. I'm too much of a nice guy (believe it or not) when it comes to WoW.

The one I don't enjoy is when a tank goes and runs ahead in Nexus. Silly herioc really, piss easy. But still, on the 2nd last boss where you need to hug the guy sometimes we don't get in before the first ice spike hits and it causes unnecessary heart attack from my side getting everyone up to 100% :D
 
I'm noticing a trend, lately, of getting really really bad tanks, often newly levelled DK's, trying to tank in Unholy or Blood Presences and not using their AOE aggro spell. Yet they still seem to think that they're invincible and run off and chain pull everything in sight, which means the healer panics and begins casting big life-saving heals on the tank, pulling healer-aggro, making the melee DPS run around trying to CC the loose mobs while the DK tank blindly sits there and seemingly auto-attacks the mobs...

We make it, barely, or don't and then the complaints start... "Wtf dude!?!", "Hey, tank, do your job!", etc, etc... Sometimes they reply, try and justify themselves. Mostly they just quit and we end up queuing again, looking for another. That happens often enough and the group disbands before the last boss...

Rinse, repeat, tear hair out in frustration...

It's not nearly as bad now at Heroic level because the relative gear levels mean we can 4-man most places and either I or someone else have a dual-spec that can tank if necessary, but for leveling toons using the new LFG system... I'd rather go back to waiting hours on end for one of the tried and proven guild tanks to be available.
 
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@zippy. It's a case of desensitisation. Heroics are very easy now, and so you get some people used to simply bulldozing through them with guildmates. Then they hop into a random dungeon and it all breaks down. The hardest thing about heroics these days aren't the bosses, but your party members.

Started levelling a warrior now with the intention to tank and pvp, and already at level 25-ish, the number of baseline tools i have for tanking simply dwarfs my level 80 DK. Cleave, sunder, revenge, blah blah blah. I can see why Warrior tanks are seen as THE tanks. Tanking on my DK is kind of stupid in comparison, a case of using 2 or 3 different abilities and 2 or 3 different cooldowns, max. With my warrior, I have to work harder at level 25, I can only imagine what it must be like at 80.
 
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Our maintank is still a warrior as well.

And from what I have seen, it requires a lot of quick reaction times vs say a pala, DK tank. Esspecially when it comes to multimob tanking.

I am just glad I am not a warrior tank when we dps'ers go ballistic on mobs.

Last night I pulled just under 16 000 dps on multiple mobs, and damn our tanks are amazing. They are so quick with taunting mobs back to them when we dps guys pull aggro. My nutsack just drops to the floor when I see that dreaded "Feign Death resisted" message.

Even single target nuking when I dish out 11k dps, I can see how our warrior tanks suffer to keep it together. As your dps'ers gear progresses, the tanks are just forced to pump their threat generation to the limit.
 
Yeah I have to agree, as a warrior I use my taunt and revenge A LOT more than I used taunt and whatever else I had on my pala tank. I am just so used to it now to tank facing the group and if a mob runs I just use the next ability that is ready to pull ahead on aggro again.

What I absolutely hate the most in random groups, is DPS'ers pulling mobs. This causes me to gain no rage, and no rage means I have a very hard time pulling TPS off needed to stay ahead of high threat dps'ers. This is when I usually start adding dps'ers to my ignore list. I don't care how good they are their gear are, but if you make life difficult for a warrior tank expect problems in the run. On my pala this is not a problem, you start off with full mana most of the time anyways.
 
Tinuva said:
Actually did one better. Kept aggro over a hunter who did just over 8k dps. Was insane but it worked :)
Click to expand...

Tinuva said:
But tbh, hunters have all the tools to not pull aggro.
Click to expand...

Er... Don't you think those two are related?
You didn't hold aggro on him; he MD'd to you to give you extra threat and FD'd when he got close to pulling aggro from you. With MD and FD both on a 30sec cooldown it makes it much easier now days for us hunters not to pull aggro.

Trust me there is no way in hell you can hold aggro on a hunter who out-gears you this much. Impossible.

I was in a heroic pug a while back where the tank was grossly undergeared (greens and blues). However, he had the stats he needed to tank the instance and the skill too, he was very good. This however didn't help and I had to DPS with Aspect of Viper on all the times (50% less DPS) because no matter what I tried otherwise, I'd pull aggro in a second.
 
Tinuva said:
Yeah I have to agree, as a warrior I use my taunt and revenge A LOT more than I used taunt and whatever else I had on my pala tank. I am just so used to it now to tank facing the group and if a mob runs I just use the next ability that is ready to pull ahead on aggro again.

What I absolutely hate the most in random groups, is DPS'ers pulling mobs. This causes me to gain no rage, and no rage means I have a very hard time pulling TPS off needed to stay ahead of high threat dps'ers. This is when I usually start adding dps'ers to my ignore list. I don't care how good they are their gear are, but if you make life difficult for a warrior tank expect problems in the run. On my pala this is not a problem, you start off with full mana most of the time anyways.
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Im loving warrior tanking. It's hell when you have a mad mage and idiot Hunter that doesnt know how to use misdirect, but that makes the fight so much more exciting. When the blame starts flying when i decide to let one go (if you cant manage your aggro, you must take whats coming to you), I just shrug it off and give a brief lesson how omen works. I am geared for as much threat as possible though, so, so far ive been holding aggro from 7k-10k dps'ers. But you will always have that one slip away from the mob. It's unavoidable unfortunately, unless you're a pally i guess. Which sounds to be an easy tanking class. I'm leveling one now to cause some annoyances with the opposite faction. :D

I still have to come accross a good DK tank that knows what he/she is doing. I've seen mostly good Pally tanks, the odd one thats not up to scratch, but they seem to argue less than DK's. Good warrior tanks seem to be quite scarce, it doesnt seem to be a very loved/liked class?

ps. remember that you have the enrage ability that gives you instant 30-50 rage points. I've glyphed mine to use no health and its on a 10 second cooldown. I normally taunt the one leading the pack, enrage then charge him. My rage jumps to 100% for which my thunderclap is ready to pull the rest, I pull back slighlty then use my shockwave to stun them, and use the demoralizing shout as well, it generates more aggro. When i see that its a group (99% of the time they do this), that doesnt attack the tanks target, but each go for their own one, I shuffle through targets and taunt as well as sunder armor each to get sunder to 5 stacks. You see mobs drop quicker then and the dps'ers think they are the ultimate. It's not a rewarding "job", neither is healing i think. You dont get much recognition like dps'ers rave about dps. :p
 
Ok... to give some clarity on why **certain** hunters suffer so badly on threat.

A MM hunter with ArP items and the correct items in his kit, will pretty much sit and feed the tank.

Lemme explain. Cynicster hit the nail on the head with his post.

If a undergeared tank is holding aggro on a 8/9k dps hunter, its purely because the hunter is wasting his GCD's, timing MD'ing shots to the tank, holding back on nuking, and spamming FD at every possible cooldown. Hunters are like cars rolling down a hill... you have to get the rotations flowing and get into the cycle of nuking, build up speed and keep it there... to stop your cycle and backoff on nuking, because his threat is climbing to aggressively, is a serious dps loss. Once your dots are running and you need to know when to refresh them without breaking your timing to MD to the tank, means you pretty much start over on your rotations.

Now hunters with Grim toll or Mjorn runestone will know exactly what I am talking about. Those two trinkets proc so easy, its usually within the first opening shot or second opening shot that the thing goes. Now, once that thing runs, I am on 1400 Arp which is 100% armor ignore. Every single autoshot / physical damage shot like aimed shot, hits like a truck on steroids.
The first few seconds in a pull is a NIGHTMARE for any MM hunter.

Multishot is another evil necessity... you have to use it as a MM arp hunter.

I know you guys say pulling aggro is no excuse, but honestly its hard if the tank is not very well geared up, to aid his threat generation. 99% of the time you will see the tanks are not using the proper threat enchants, since they are pretty confident they can keep aggro.
 
At the moment I am leveling an unguilded undead priest. I have about 4 or 5 alliance lvl 80's and I am gatvol of the alliance Northrend quests. Since my undead priest is unguilded, obviously I am doing pugs.

When Cataclysm comes out, I want the option of switching to horde. Been playing alliance for over 2 years. Played horde for a long while before that.

So I will be doing pugs, no doubt healing. I have done UK and Nexus as shadow. No complaints really. Although on UK we had a lvl 80 pally tank helping is mate. Easy mode.

I miss having lvl 80's to buy my tome of cold weather flying :(
 
In normal instances/dungeons, having your dps scale to 10k and pulling aggro is just showing off. Even with 3 dps' doing about 3 to 6k you can fly through the dungeon. I'm not the best geared tank, but I reckon im not poorly geared. Sitting at a gearscore of 4.9k and having 41-44k hp in dungeons should say a little. (I should be getting my new chestpiece soon soon, yay) I normally see hunters' aggro start low and shoot skyhigh at a frightening rate. On bosses I have seen their aggro surpass mine but somehow the boss stays with me. (That's when i do a slow release in my pantie and just keep the high threat attacks going) Same goes with mages.

About the tank not being well geared, I pull aggro from tanks that outgears my dps spec by far and i manage 6k and up on a mob with bladestorm. The new system has enabled a whole new breed of tanks I think. Well geared noobs that just doesnt know how it works or what it's really about.
 
JOn0, you only pull aggro from the tank once your threat is 30% above his (as ranged). In other words, if you look at Omen, the tank's threat will be 100% and you need to get 130% to pull aggro. So technically you can hover in between 100% and 130% threat and pew pew like a mad man without pulling aggro. Of course this is risky business =P
 
hmmmm, I think ill have to read up on that. I'm an arms warrior so no pew pew for me. Just charge and swipe. :D In mobs i just go hard because my target tends to drop before I get too much aggro or get beaten too much. On boss fights I tend to hover it as close to 100% as possible though. :P
 
Anyone Druid tanking? For me that is really hard, specially on mobs, boss can go, mobs are hard to control for me.

Of all the tanking classes I pref my Warrior.

I sometimes wonder if some classes DPS is just to high on threat generation, aving a Mage,Warlock and hunter in the group makes the instance fly, but aggro on mobs can be a problem if every1 goes for his/her own target, as some of these guys aggro goes through the roof with almost 1st shot crits lol.

Feels like they have to buff the threat generation while tanking
 
Too much dps is a problem yes. Like they say, power is nothing without control. Ran something a while back with 2 aggro whore warlocks pushing 6k and we wiped on that run more than many a 'noob' group comprised of 2k dps range. I had to 'strip my moer' befoer they chilled the #$!% out. To be pretty damn frank, racing to beat the other dps in the group or because you're in a hurry is a detriment to the group as a whole. And DPS only ever needs to be good enough to down the boss before the boss enrages and/or healer(s) go oom. More than that is simply an epeen contest. Pulling aggro off a tank doesn't mean you're leet, and it doesn't necessarily mean the tank is bad.

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/46.html
 
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Skurm, I agree totally with you on that. I have been tanking for a very long time now, and I know what I'm doing (Sort off lol)

When I run with aggro whores like you said, I always get blamed for wipes, but the funny thing is the healer stays alive, the DPS just don't care about aggro anymore, I rarely see a Mage Iceblock or a pally bubble...they just die and blame the healer or Tank.....and don't ask the warlock to soulshatter, I wonder if some of them know about the spell even.....

I just think things got to easy and that's why no control is needed like TBC, just rush 1 instance after the other...
 
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