OpenWeb ADSL Feedback Thread (Pt2)

[MrBEEP]

Hi Brad,

Capped gets a much higher priority on the network by nature. Uncapped by nature is a contended service.

Since my last posts were while I was on uncapped, I changed to capped... a lot better. Unrestricted and can browse/download etc without a problem. Of course you are capped but if you monitor your average use you do on uncapped you might be surprised the amount of frustration you save yourself on capped. Of course if you download every night, probably better to stay on uncapped but seriously if you need daytime browsing and less stress, capped helped my stress levels a lot. Yes it's caveman tech but pretty much the only thing to do it seems with the way daytime uncapped is in SA as a whole. Just an idea... use it, don't use it.

 

[PostmanPot]

I'm not sure what is unprofessional about offering assistance to clients?

I think it comes across as unprofessional when assuming that those seeking service in this thread have sent emails to support and opened tickets, and asking that they PM you their support number.

This is not your usual reply. Most people who post here get service via PM.

A more professional response would be: "If you have emailed support and received a ticket number, please PM it to me."

Anyway.

Shaping looks at:

* Your service level
* How busy the network is

The network is also split into two distinct regions, with an IPC in the Western Cape, which feeds the Eastern Cape and surrounds as well. And Rosebank, which feeds the rest of the country. A client in the Western Cape might be shaped at 10am until 18:00, where a client in Rosebank may be shaped from 9am to 17:00. It depends on how busy your IPC and network is at any given time and which service level you are on

Durban is going live soon, which means lower latencies for folks in KZN and surrounds.

Which concludes that not ALL clients iwll receive blanket shaping. There are many factors at play.

Then we havent even looked at Telkom congested exchange and other issues, which has a huge impact on performance.

I understand this, but it's not always area specific. It's people all over the show, which I can see based on their 'Location' under their forum nickname.

The question stands, why do people all over the country on Gold often suffer more than people all over the country on lesser accounts?

It begs the question of how the accounts are managed. If Gold is marketed as being higher priority and lower contention, then they should receive better service. People on a lower account should not receive superior service, simply.

Would it not be ethical to have Ts&Cs attached to the accounts, explaining what you have explained above as a potential explanation when a few months down the line after signing up, daytime speeds go downhill? I'm sure it would save you a lot of headaches.

But perhaps you feel that being too honest would lead to more wary potential sign-ups.

Another question is, how do newly issued accounts, which are given to the client when they have problems, fail a few days/weeks later in the same way?

 

[MrBEEP]

The question stands, why do people all over the country on Gold often suffer more than people all over the country on lesser accounts?

This is explained in my previous post.

It begs the question of how the accounts are managed. If Gold is marketed as being higher priority and lower contention, then they should receive better service. People on a lower account should not receive superior service, simply.

Shaping is dynamic based on how busy the network is at any given time, and your service level

Would it not be ethical to have Ts&Cs attached to the accounts, explaining what you have explained above as a potential explanation when a few months down the line after signing up, daytime speeds go downhill? I'm sure it would save you a lot of headaches.

Shaping is dynamic. Therefore we cannot specify how or when you will be shaped. It all depends on how busy the network is at any given time

But perhaps you feel that being too honest would lead to more wary potential sign-ups.

We always strive to lay out all the cards on the table before a client signs up. It is worse having an unhappy client after signup, than one before.

Another question is, how do newly issued accounts, which are given to the client when they have problems, fail a few days/weeks later in the same way?

This depends largely on the systems. We would issue an account on a different network or a different routing. Some exchanges work better on some routes / networks than others. This is a dynamic process.

Assigning a new username is much better for a client, as we can resolve their issue without them having to suffer. If a new route works better for them, this is great. Then the problem is resolved.

I think it comes across as unprofessional when assuming that those seeking service in this thread have sent emails to support and opened tickets, and asking that they PM you their support number.

This is not your usual reply. Most people who post here get service via PM.

A more professional response would be: "If you have emailed support and received a ticket number, please PM it to me."

Anyway.



I understand this, but it's not always area specific. It's people all over the show, which I can see based on their 'Location' under their forum nickname.

The question stands, why do people all over the country on Gold often suffer more than people all over the country on lesser accounts?

It begs the question of how the accounts are managed. If Gold is marketed as being higher priority and lower contention, then they should receive better service. People on a lower account should not receive superior service, simply.

Would it not be ethical to have Ts&Cs attached to the accounts, explaining what you have explained above as a potential explanation when a few months down the line after signing up, daytime speeds go downhill? I'm sure it would save you a lot of headaches.

But perhaps you feel that being too honest would lead to more wary potential sign-ups.

Another question is, how do newly issued accounts, which are given to the client when they have problems, fail a few days/weeks later in the same way?

 

[PostmanPot]

The question stands, why do people all over the country on Gold often suffer more than people all over the country on lesser accounts?

This is explained in my previous post.

Sorry, based on monitoring this thread for 5 months, as well as other threads, and how people all over the country on each IPC suffer differently on Gold vs lower accounts, I don't buy it. Still no proof that Gold offers higher performance/redundancy, because people on lower accounts on the same IPC are getting a better service during hours.

 

[HowTo]

Hi MrBeep

Pm Send.

 

[MrBEEP]

I am sorry to hear that. Gold indeed has a lower contention ratio and higher priority on the network. You are aware that we have thousands of Gold clients. Not just the ones that post on this thread. Generally folks post here when something goes wrong. A select number post here when the going is good. This means the thread cannot be used as a test of overall happiness.

Sorry, based on monitoring this thread for 5 months, as well as other threads, and how people all over the country on each IPC suffer differently on Gold vs lower accounts, I don't buy it. Still no proof that Gold offers higher performance/redundancy, because people on lower accounts on the same IPC are getting a better service during hours.

 

[PostmanPot]

I am sorry to hear that. Gold indeed has a lower contention ratio and higher priority on the network. You are aware that we have thousands of Gold clients. Not just the ones that post on this thread. Generally folks post here when something goes wrong. A select number post here when the going is good. This means the thread cannot be used as a test of overall happiness.

I understand that, but then again, most people are at work during hours, so they can only comment on after hours performance - which is generally perfect.

The complaints here about Gold (and other accounts) are specifically about during hours, and more specifically where people are led to believe that they have a superior product, who are not receiving the supposed benefits during hours performance.

Which then begs the question, if you only use the internet after hours, there isn't really any point of Gold, is there?

Unfortunately the trend is that the bulk of the compliments come from those judging after hours performance, not from those judging during hours performance.

 

[MrBEEP]

Gold clients do have a superior product. They have a lower contention ratio on the network and higher priority. This does not mean they have an unshaped service.

I understand that, but then again, most people are at work during hours, so they can only comment on after hours performance - which is generally perfect.

The complaints here about Gold (and other accounts) are specifically about during hours, and more specifically where people are led to believe that they have a superior product, who are not receiving the supposed benefits during hours performance.

Which then begs the question, if you only use the internet after hours, there isn't really any point of Gold, is there?

Unfortunately the trend is that the bulk of the compliments come from those judging after hours performance, not from those judging during hours performance.

 

[PostmanPot]

Gold clients do have a superior product. They have a lower contention ratio on the network and higher priority. This does not mean they have an unshaped service.

We need some substantiation otherwise a vague answer is just vague.

Where is the evidence of Gold clients having a superior product? Without resorting to the "thousands of Gold clients who do not partake in this thread."

If Gold clients suffer equally during hours as other clients on lesser accounts, where is the superiority?

If Gold clients suffer more during hours than other clients on lesser accounts, where is the superiority?

If Gold clients and clients on lesser accounts generally become unshaped at 17h00 weekdays and on weekends, where is the superiority and benefit of having a Gold account?

 

[MrBEEP]

Unfortunately we are now going in circles. Kindly refer to my first reply.

If you are experiencing an issue kindly PM me your details so that we can investigate.

We need some substantiation otherwise a vague answer is just vague.

Where is the evidence of Gold clients having a superior product? Without resorting to the "thousands of Gold clients who do not partake in this thread."

If Gold clients suffer equally during hours as other clients on lesser accounts, where is the superiority?

If Gold clients suffer more during hours than other clients on lesser accounts, where is the superiority?

If Gold clients and clients on lesser accounts generally become unshaped at 17h00 weekdays and on weekends, where is the superiority and benefit of having a Gold account?

 

[Mannemarak]

SAY WHAT!!!!!!

When, Where, When????

......

Durban is going live soon, which means lower latencies for folks in KZN and surrounds.

......

 

[PostmanPot]

Unfortunately we are now going in circles. Kindly refer to my first reply.

If you are experiencing an issue kindly PM me your details so that we can investigate.

Am I asking too much?

Please kindly answer the above questions in this thread. I do not see any circles, it is a direct question that needs an unvague answer. Please substantiate where the lower contention ratio and higher priority is witnessed.

From a customer service perspective, it will do a lot to keep many of your clients on this forum happy, who are doubting the value of their Gold accounts. Certainly more than evading the questions.

We need some substantiation otherwise a vague answer is just vague.

Where is the evidence of Gold clients having a superior product? Without resorting to the "thousands of Gold clients who do not partake in this thread."

If Gold clients suffer equally during hours as other clients on lesser accounts, where is the superiority?

If Gold clients suffer more during hours than other clients on lesser accounts, where is the superiority?

If Gold clients and clients on lesser accounts generally become unshaped at 17h00 weekdays and on weekends, where is the superiority and benefit of having a Gold account?

 

[Wackyza]

Erm. You just avoided his question completely. I have always wanted to know the answer to this question too. He is asking for substantiation/proof/evidence as to how Gold is better? You have not in any previous post provided substantiation/proof/evidence as to how Gold is better? Simply saying is has a lower contention ratio on the network and higher priority is vague at most.

Unfortunately we are now going in circles. Kindly refer to my first reply.

If you are experiencing an issue kindly PM me your details so that we can investigate.

 

[Anakha56]

Durban is going live soon, which means lower latencies for folks in KZN and surrounds.

I like the sound of this but could you please provide more clarification? Googling Durban and IPC has Mweb & Afrihost showing that they have a IPC presence here so is it just OpenWeb or IS that don't have a presence here?

 

[diephoenix08]

I was for a week on a gold trial account, and the daytime speed was better that the nighttime speed.

And it seems blanket shaping is applied, not protocol shaping anymore. As soon as you download the shaping comes up. But what is a download? I don't torrent in the day, but i do work from home, and I am busy online, remote desktop, ftp to publish, vpn to Db to debug code. I also surf, maybe listen to Jacaranda live, or youtube, or facebook. Sometimes when looking for a solution, i will have 10 -20 tabs open to different websites. All of this is downloads.

So what triggers the shaping? what is defined as an download?

Don't get me wrong, I like this account, and I download a lot on it at night, and its night speed is good, and weekend speed is also good, except on Sunday afternoon, then its gets very slow???

I think a better balanced and dynamic package needs to be created, daytime capped with its better ratios and speeds, nighttime uncapped.

 

[ShoalDiverSA]

My experience is that my Gold (Power) account performs significantly better during office hours than the Gamer's King account that I was on. On Gamer's King, I couldn't do much of anything during office hours on most days.

I think the frustration that became apparent in January was probably exacerbated by the test OW ran in December to measure demand at the higher connection speeds we'd been bumped to by Telkom. Having an all-you-can-eat line performing at double your usual speed (I was on a 2 Meg line, bumped up to 4 Meg) all day long was internet bliss. But, as MrBEEP said, it was unsustainable given the demand they measured.

During January, I had issues all round with my DSL (kicked off initially by me capping the routing account I had due to the above mentioned test - sorry OW ). I lodged tickets and received good, patient support from OW. I was issued with new routing accounts, which performed well at times and then borked at others. Given the many variables in the equation, it was difficult for me to identify whether the issue was ISP-related (shaping, contention) or the DSL service.

So, to remove contention from the equation, I moved to a Gold (Power) trial account, with the assistance of MrBEEP, as this account has a lower contention ratio than Gamer's King. Daytime performance was (and is) stellar. So at least I now knew that contention was part of the issue I was experiencing. To be fair, I was paying a very low price for an uncapped service, so logically I was contending with more people for the same bandwidth.

I signed up for a 4 Meg Gold (Power) account and it has performed admirably. However, Telkom's exchange has not. I discovered that the intermittent performance of the connection was still there. OW was not the reason for the intermittent performance of my account. You can see in my last post that I've had to contend with wildly variable pings on the second hop (us to 2500ms…). I logged faults with Telkom and escalated them yesterday. Late last night or early this morning, something changed. My line is stable and my pings are as expected. Long may it last.

What I've learnt through this process is that the ISP is the front line in terms of DSL issues and, as they are more accessible than Telkom, they take the "heat" for all Internet connectivity woes, whether they are the cause or not. I think there's also the issue of user expectation and at some point we as consumers have to accept that this is a business. Unless we want to be complicit in grinding our ISPs into insolvency, we have to accept that we need to pay for the level of service that we expect. It is expense, but we do have a monopoly - and those monopoly costs are the overwhelming majority of our internet connection costs.

There are of course anomalies and performance issues from time to time, and my experience has been that OW deals with them professionally and attempts to do so with minimum impact to their customers (although even this - namely the issuing of new routing accounts - is treated with extreme suspicion by their clients).

Although I'm happy with the performance of my Gold (Power) Uncapped account, I believe that Capped is the best option for users that require high levels of performance 24/7. They will just have to be responsible and not attempt to download the whole internet every month. (Last bit said slightly tongue-in-cheek)

PS: Here's my latest speedtest, taken a few minutes ago via ssh:
speedtest_cli.py
Retrieving speedtest.net configuration...
Retrieving speedtest.net server list...
Testing from Internet Solutions (196.210.130.93)...
Selecting best server based on ping...
Hosted by Telkom SA (SAIX) (Durban) [16.20 km]: 33.061 ms
Testing download speed........................................
Download: 3.32 Mbit/s
Testing upload speed..................................................
Upload: 0.35 Mbit/s

 

[Hecate]

@ShoaldiverSA Try a international speedtest?

 

[PostmanPot]

<snip>

I hear you, and I really hope your positive experience continues for more than a few months.

Like I originally said, I've monitored this thread for 6 months, and it's quite startling the amount of forumites who sign up and are happy, but then come back a few months later complaining. The most recent being, IIRC, Koosi, who used to give a lot of praise a few months ago. Another member, TEXTURE GUY, who also used to give praise, but now makes use of two ISPs because of OW/IS problems. There are plenty other less vocal forumites who conform to this pattern I have witnessed, as well as what other members, current and ex OW clients, have said all along.

And about the Telkom faults, I think most of us are tech-minded, and are able to rule out Telkom-related faults before going to the lengths of blaming the ISP. You will see that the issues continue after checking for congestion, doing line tests, port resets, swapping modems, testing other ISPs...

So as I said, the pattern is that new accounts perform well in the beginning, and then deteriorate after a few months. Not all I'm sure, but a good proportion as experienced in this thread. Yours is a new account, so I just hope your service continues past the few months where deterioration usually takes place.

And yes, a local Speedtest isn't much to go by. In fact nor is an international.

 

[PostmanPot]

<snip>

One last thing which I forgot that is very important. While I understand you are having a better experience, there have been posts here about people upgrading to Gold from lesser accounts, and getting worse performance.

The inconsistency is truly baffling when the advertising states higher priority and lower contention i.e. better performance.

 

[Kensei2605]

For me personally my Gold ( Power ) account has been very inconsistent. I don't know what to expect. Currently not downloading anything during the day as browsing becomes unusable, p2p is like the weather after hours during the week.

I must add support has been great always help full and quick to respond but currently I have had 2 port resets and 1 profile routing change ( dunno if its the same thing ) the only thing it seems to do is solve the 1 problem an create another.

PS. This past weekend by Gold account was super fast the whole weekend so no problems with my "setup" I'm sure its shaping that is the cause of most problems no matter what account. I feel shaping needs to be less on the gold accounts though at the least browsing should never be affected no matter what or when your downloading.