Oscar Pistorius: The Sentence

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can someone explain to me why Gerrie is going on and on about Oscar's version...thought, he has been found guilty...are we not busy with sentencing process...or am I messing something here?
 
yebocan said:
can someone explain to me why Gerrie is going on and on about Oscar's version...thought, he has been found guilty...are we not busy with sentencing process...or am I messing something here?
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He does not like the evidence she gave so he is attacking everything she said in an attempt to discredit her. The guy actually had the gall to argue there is no overcrowding in prison when the government advise an overcrowding of 136% on their website. http://www.dcs.gov.za/AboutUs/StatisticalInformation.aspx
 
PoisonedPawn said:
He does not like the evidence she gave so he is attacking everything she said in an attempt to discredit her. The guy actually had the gall to argue there is no overcrowding in prison when the government advise an overcrowding of 136% on their website. http://www.dcs.gov.za/AboutUs/StatisticalInformation.aspx
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not to sure, why they are arguing about all the short comings of prisons...if they are as bad, as it is constantly reported...no convicted person would be sent to them...hence...do not do the crime.
 
yebocan said:
not to sure, why they are arguing about all the short comings of prisons...if they are as bad, as it is constantly reported...no convicted person would be sent to them...hence...do not do the crime.
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It has little to do with if Nel believes the conditions or not - probation officer and this lady made recommendation of house arrest (which implies suspended sentence) and Nel does not like this, so he has to hammer at every fact she relied on to make the recommendation, or show she did not consider the right factors.
 
PoisonedPawn said:
It has little to do with if Nel believes the conditions or not - probation officer and this lady made recommendation of house arrest (which implies suspended sentence) and Nel does not like this, so he has to hammer at every fact she relied on to make the recommendation, or show she did not consider the right factors.
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Thanks...clarity has been achieved....much appreciated!
 
PoisonedPawn said:
It has little to do with if Nel believes the conditions or not - probation officer and this lady made recommendation of house arrest (which implies suspended sentence) and Nel does not like this, so he has to hammer at every fact she relied on to make the recommendation, or show she did not consider the right factors.
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Thank you.
 
PoisonedPawn said:
It has little to do with if Nel believes the conditions or not - probation officer and this lady made recommendation of house arrest (which implies suspended sentence) and Nel does not like this, so he has to hammer at every fact she relied on to make the recommendation, or show she did not consider the right factors.
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Agreed. That's why it's painstakingly long....
 
If the argument is that jails are unsafe for OP

What about if he is free to do what he wants, wouldn't the public be unsafe towards him if they catch him in a dark alley?
 
Garyvdh said:
STEENKAMPS SUPRISED BY PAYMENTS DISCLOSURE

Reeva Steenkamp's parents and their lawyer on Wednesday said they were surprised that a confidential agreement was disclosed in the High Court in Pretoria during paralympian Oscar Pistorius's sentencing.

"We were... quite surprised yesterday when this fact was disclosed in court without any prior warning to us," PJ de Bruyn SC, for the Steenkamps, said in a statement.
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oh gasp !
our daughter the cash-cow, even in death.
 
MickeyD said:
And if you exclude the awaiting trial prisoners?
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The reported figures by Dept. of Correctional Services:
There are 160508 prisoners total
There are 47059 atd (awaiting trial)
There are 113449 sentenced
Bed capacity for sentenced is 92814
The reported overcrowding is 136%

Not going to guarantee my math, but by my reckoning that's a 122% overcrowding for sentenced prisoners.
 
DEFENCE WITNESS 'IRRESPONSIBLE': NEL

A defence witness in Oscar Pistorius's sentencing procedures does not know how prisons are run, the High Court in Pretoria heard on Wednesday.

Prosecutor Gerrie Nel continued with the cross-examination of probation officer and social worker Annette Vergeer on the Correctional Services Act and conditions in prisons.

"What I find very interesting that you want to come to court and deal with conditions in prison and you don't know how the prison is run. How can you do that?" Nel asked her.

"I find it so irresponsible that you would come to court and give an opinion but you don't know anything about the correctional services department and you're employed by another state department."

Vergeer responded: "It is an opinion My Lady, from experience."

Nel said it was "worrying" that Vergeer testified on conditions in prisons but did not verify information she obtained.

She told the court she called the social workers' office in a prison and spoke to a person, who did not want to be named, on the conditions but did not verify the information.

Nel said Vergeer stated it as a fact in her report that prisons did not have facilities like baths for physical disabled people.

She conceded that she never specifically asked if there were baths.

Vergeer presented her report on Tuesday, which the defence paid her to compile.

On Wednesday, Nel asked Vergeer if she was aware that prisoners could write and request a single cell and that medical staff could also write to authorities suggesting a single cell for a prisoner.

He said that there was a regulation that no medical devices, like prosthesis, be taken away from prisoners.

Vergeer said she did not know that.

"I'm just worried that you come to court as a probation officer in private business and complain about the conditions of prison, but you don't know this," said Nel.

"My lady I don't know every single act," Vergeer said.

She said she testified on her experience and what she had been told in interviews.

On September 12, Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide on for the Valentine's Day 2013, shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse. The court found him not guilty of murdering Steenkamp.

Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.

Pistorius was found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's

restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013 and not guilty of shooting

through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012.


Source : Sapa /dm/aa
Date : 15 Oct 2014 10:31
 
NEL QUESTIONS VERGEER ON DETERRENCE

A social worker struggled to explain to the High Court in Pretoria on Wednesday how house arrest for Oscar Pistorius would deter other criminals.

"What in this particular matter must the court, in its sentence, deter others from?" prosecutor Gerrie Nel asked Annette Vergeer, who is also a parole officer.

Nel was cross-examining her during sentencing proceedings for Pistorius, found guilty last month of the culpable homicide of Reeva Steenkamp, his girlfriend.

"The fact that he used a firearm and that people are negligent with the use of a firearm," Vergeer replied.

"How can that be what you had in mind? The sentence should deter people from owning legal firearms?" Nel asked.

On Tuesday Vergeer presented her report on Pistorius, which the defence had paid her to compile, to the court. In it she recommended that the paralympic athlete get three years of correctional supervision and community service for killing Steenkamp.

She cited prison overcrowding, understaffing, and a lack of facilities for the disabled as the reasons for her recommendation.

"I'm not exactly sure what I should answer on," Vergeer replied on Wednesday, looking confused.

At one point Nel stood, his chin propped on his hand, as Vergeer rattled off a list that had nothing to do with what he wanted to know. She spoke of an offender's remorse, crime statistics, and the seriousness of the offence.

When she had finished, Nel said: "You haven't answered my question."

Nel finally asked her: "Should people be deterred from firing four shots through a locked door in the middle of the night?"

"In fact so, My Lady," said Vergeer.

On September 12 Judge Thokozile Masipa found Pistorius guilty of the culpable homicide of model and law graduate Steenkamp, but not guilty of her murder. Pistorius had claimed he thought there was a burglar in his toilet when he fired four shots through the locked door in the early hours of February 14 last year, killing Steenkamp. The State had argued he killed her during an argument.

Masipa found Pistorius guilty of discharging a firearm in public, when he shot from his friend Darren Fresco's Glock pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Melrose Arch, Johannesburg, in January 2013.

Pistorius was found not guilty on two firearms-related charges -- illegal possession of ammunition, and shooting through the open sunroof of a car with his 9mm pistol while driving with friends in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012.


Source : Sapa /th/aa
Date : 15 Oct 2014 10:42
 
PRISONS CAN DEAL WITH DISABLED PEOPLE

Prisons have the necessary facilities to deal with people who have similar disabilities to Oscar Pistorius, the High Court in Pretoria heard on Wednesday.

"Disability, we've checked, correctional services do have facilities. Psychological services, we've [also] checked," prosecutor Gerrie Nel said.

Nel was cross-examining social worker and probation officer Annette Vergeer on a report she compiled that said the facilities in prisons were not adequately equipped for people with disabilities.

Vergeer said there were not enough psychologists in prisons.

However, Nel said that according to the law, prisoners were allowed to bring in their own psychologists.

Vergeer said because of factors including Pistorius's disability and state of mind, there were limitations placed on him.

"There are limitations. There are many factors... other than his disability and state of mind like his personality, vulnerability and all other aspects," she said.

Vergeer admitted that she did not have any statistics on people with disabilities in prison.

Nel said about 128 disabled people were incarcerated annually.

Vergeer presented her report on Tuesday, which the defence paid her to compile. She said that prisons did not have facilities like baths for physically disabled people and that the prisons were overcrowded and prisoners had to share group cells.

On September 12, Judge Thokozile Masipa convicted Pistorius of culpable homicide on for the Valentine's Day 2013, shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse. He was found not guilty of murdering Steenkamp.

Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.

Pistorius was found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013 and not guilty of shooting through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012.


Source : Sapa /dm/aa
Date : 15 Oct 2014 11:02
 
PoisonedPawn said:
The reported figures by Dept. of Correctional Services:
There are 160508 prisoners total
There are 47059 atd (awaiting trial)
There are 113449 sentenced
Bed capacity for sentenced is 92814
The reported overcrowding is 136%

Not going to guarantee my math, but by my reckoning that's a 122% overcrowding for sentenced prisoners.
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Better... then we get the breakdown in maximum, medium, etc type sections. :p
 
grantza said:
oh gasp !
our daughter the cash-cow, even in death.
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Do you know their personal (financial) circumstances? I don't, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

People are different. Some walk way from a traumatic experience in an effort to keep their composure and sanity. Others use money as a means to punish an offender or someone who hurt them (think of women who vow to bankrupt their husbands after a divorce). So let's allow for the fact that not all people deal with pain in the same way.
 
MickeyD said:
Better... then we get the breakdown in maximum, medium, etc type sections. :p
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Would not put to much faith in these figures though - got the appearance like most state reported figures of being whitewashed. The 47000 ATD's supposedly get by with accommodation for 25000 (its reported as the benchmark target for ATD's), and has last been updated for the financial year 2011/2012.
 
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