marine1
Honorary Master
Thanks bud, yup almost everything with me is black and white. I never sit on the fence with anything.
And I am a very strong principled person and I like to think its principles that are morally right
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Oscar Pistorius: The Sentence
- Thread starter MickeyD
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Thanks bud, yup almost everything with me is black and white. I never sit on the fence with anything.
And I am a very strong principled person and I like to think its principles that are morally right
Why is it so slow?
Do we need more infrastructure? More staff (judges etc)? Is the crime rate just so high it's not manageable by the courts?
marine1
Honorary Master
Intolerance and bigotry you say? Because I am dead against a religion of hatred and anger? Happy to be that then
Albereth
Honorary Master
It's the entire system from arrest to incarceration/acquittal. And not just on criminal matters.
I would suggest that the main problems are incompetence and laziness.
Albereth
Honorary Master
There is also a difference between calling a spade a spade rather than a s*** shovel.
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
Except not everyone who follows the religion is full of hatred and anger. See? Not black and white. Actually, "hatred and anger" describe you pretty well.
bekdik
Honorary Master
TV commentator speaking about underworld audience, replying to "What could they threaten him with?" says "They could threaten to break his legs".
Oh, well.
Oh, well.
marine1
Honorary Master
marine1
Honorary Master
You kidding?
bekdik
Honorary Master
Seriaas. The bald law guy who's on at present.
marine1
Honorary Master
let's say it was a member of your family? give your answer as to what you would like to see happen to the killer. would you see the killer as merely a cereal killa? I think not.
increasing the staffing etc ... will actually slow things down because it is structural defects and additional hands = additional bureaucracy. Aligning the "staffing" in the system - removing prosecutors from the magistrates offices and placing them in prosecuting stables would be a good start, as would appointing competent and functioning public defenders rather than having the Legal Aid Board continuously stall trials.
we have a pile of problems that result in our criminal justice system being wholly inefficient and unjust and the 1997 sentencing and bail legislation are major contributing factors to a lot of problems. Further the regional court which started in the 50s to deal with a small pool of offences that were clogging up the Supreme Court has become a major animal on its own accord with the South African government adopting the attitude of throwing money rather than solving a problem - our murder and matrimony court is a creature like no other. The entire CPA needs to be revisited and rewritten from first principles.
The Pistorius trial is a good example of where resource waste happens because of improper prep work - there was sweet ****all real investigation before charging and consequently instead of police work you ended up loading the courts.
We have far too many postponements in the lower courts and many attorneys (as a number not proportionally) earn a living on stalling.
And this is all before we get to the competence, corruption and interference problems in the lower courts
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
Arguably the people in the worst headspace to be making rational, considered decisions. And also entirely irrelevant to what he's saying.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
I HAD REEVA WITH ME: COUSIN
Reeva Steenkamp's cousin thanked people for their support on Twitter ahead of her second day testifying in aggregation of Oscar Pistorius's sentencing procedures in the High Court in Pretoria.
"Tx for all the messages of support. Reeva really was with me. Lets keep her voice alive. #ReevaSteenkamp #Love," Kim Martin tweeted at 6.59am to her 238 followers.
Replying to tweets, she said Steenkamp was with her and that made it "very easy".
She told a tweeter to "be strong and don't stop spreading Reevas message of love and compassion."
Martin took the stand on Wednesday and told the court about her loving and sociable law graduate and model cousin.
She had been in court on various days since the start of the trial.
"I knew I had to be here, I had to do this, I had to do this for Reeva, I owe her this," an emotional Martin said on Wednesday.
"I know Reeva needs a voice. My way of looking at this to pay her back for what she meant to me."
Martin said she spoke to Steenkamp's parents June and Barry on Tuesday night because she was worried she would disappoint them when she testified.
She said Barry Steenkamp told her that she could never disappoint them and that she had their blessing and needed to be "Reeva's voice".
Martin said an announcement on the radio that Pistorius shot his girlfriend was the first time she heard of Steenkamp's death, while she was stuck in rush hour traffic with her husband.
She remembered screaming and then hoping and praying that it was not Steenkamp.
Martin would continue her testimony on Thursday.
On September 12, Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide on for the Valentines Day 2013, shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse. The court found him not guilty of murdering Steenkamp.
Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.
Pistorius was found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013. He was found not guilty of shooting through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012, and of illegal possession of ammunition.
Source : Sapa /dm/fg
Date : 16 Oct 2014 09:29
Reeva Steenkamp's cousin thanked people for their support on Twitter ahead of her second day testifying in aggregation of Oscar Pistorius's sentencing procedures in the High Court in Pretoria.
"Tx for all the messages of support. Reeva really was with me. Lets keep her voice alive. #ReevaSteenkamp #Love," Kim Martin tweeted at 6.59am to her 238 followers.
Replying to tweets, she said Steenkamp was with her and that made it "very easy".
She told a tweeter to "be strong and don't stop spreading Reevas message of love and compassion."
Martin took the stand on Wednesday and told the court about her loving and sociable law graduate and model cousin.
She had been in court on various days since the start of the trial.
"I knew I had to be here, I had to do this, I had to do this for Reeva, I owe her this," an emotional Martin said on Wednesday.
"I know Reeva needs a voice. My way of looking at this to pay her back for what she meant to me."
Martin said she spoke to Steenkamp's parents June and Barry on Tuesday night because she was worried she would disappoint them when she testified.
She said Barry Steenkamp told her that she could never disappoint them and that she had their blessing and needed to be "Reeva's voice".
Martin said an announcement on the radio that Pistorius shot his girlfriend was the first time she heard of Steenkamp's death, while she was stuck in rush hour traffic with her husband.
She remembered screaming and then hoping and praying that it was not Steenkamp.
Martin would continue her testimony on Thursday.
On September 12, Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide on for the Valentines Day 2013, shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse. The court found him not guilty of murdering Steenkamp.
Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.
Pistorius was found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013. He was found not guilty of shooting through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012, and of illegal possession of ammunition.
Source : Sapa /dm/fg
Date : 16 Oct 2014 09:29
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
FOURTH DAY OF OSCAR PROCEEDINGS BEGIN
The fourth day of sentencing proceedings for paralympian Oscar Pistorius's culpable homicide-conviction began in the High Court in Pretoria on Thursday.
Prosecutor Gerrie Nel started proceedings by wishing Judge Thokozile Masipa well on her birthday.
"We wish you many more blessed birthdays in the future," he told her.
Masipa said: "Thank you very much."
He then continued with his questioning of Reeva Steenkamp's cousin Kim Martin, asking her about Pistorius's public apology.
"I did not feel that the apology was genuine. I remember crying and it made me realise... why we are here," she said.
"It did not seem sincere."
She said she was fearful of Pistorius.
"I tried really hard to put him out of my mind. We even made a point to not mention his name in our house because we didn't want to spend any energy thinking of him.
"I really believe he needs to pay for what he done."
In court on Thursday were Pistorius's siblings Aimee and Carl, father Henke, uncle Arnold, his ex-girlfriend Samantha Taylor and her mother Patricia, Steenkamp's parents Barry and June and her Johannesburg "family" the Myers.
Also in attendance were former soccer player Marc Batchelor and businessman Jared Mortimer.
In July, while his trial was still under way, Pistorius had an altercation with Mortimer at the VIP Room club in the Michelangelo Towers in Sandton, Johannesburg.
At the time, the Pistorius family released a media statement saying Mortimer "aggressively interrogated him" on matters relating to murder trial.
Mortimer told a newspaper that Pistorius insulted President Jacob Zuma's family and his own friends, resulting in the altercation.
Batchelor and Pistorius also had a confrontation where the paralympian allegedly threatened to break Batchelor's legs, and Batchelor made threats in return.
This was after Pistorius found out his girlfriend at the time had been allegedly cheating on him with Batchelor's friend, coal mining millionaire and TV producer Quinton van der Burgh.
On September 12 Pistorius was found guilty of the culpable homicide of Steenkamp, but not guilty of her murder. Pistorius had claimed he thought there was a burglar in his toilet when he fired four shots through the locked door in the early hours of February 14 last year, killing Steenkamp. The State had argued he killed her during an argument.
Masipa also found Pistorius guilty of discharging a firearm in public, when a shot went off as he held his friend Darren Fresco's Glock pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Melrose Arch, Johannesburg, in January 2013.
Pistorius was found not guilty on two firearms-related charges -- illegal possession of ammunition, and shooting through the open sunroof of a car with his 9mm pistol while driving with friends in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012.
Source : Sapa /aa/dm/fg
Date : 16 Oct 2014 09:43
The fourth day of sentencing proceedings for paralympian Oscar Pistorius's culpable homicide-conviction began in the High Court in Pretoria on Thursday.
Prosecutor Gerrie Nel started proceedings by wishing Judge Thokozile Masipa well on her birthday.
"We wish you many more blessed birthdays in the future," he told her.
Masipa said: "Thank you very much."
He then continued with his questioning of Reeva Steenkamp's cousin Kim Martin, asking her about Pistorius's public apology.
"I did not feel that the apology was genuine. I remember crying and it made me realise... why we are here," she said.
"It did not seem sincere."
She said she was fearful of Pistorius.
"I tried really hard to put him out of my mind. We even made a point to not mention his name in our house because we didn't want to spend any energy thinking of him.
"I really believe he needs to pay for what he done."
In court on Thursday were Pistorius's siblings Aimee and Carl, father Henke, uncle Arnold, his ex-girlfriend Samantha Taylor and her mother Patricia, Steenkamp's parents Barry and June and her Johannesburg "family" the Myers.
Also in attendance were former soccer player Marc Batchelor and businessman Jared Mortimer.
In July, while his trial was still under way, Pistorius had an altercation with Mortimer at the VIP Room club in the Michelangelo Towers in Sandton, Johannesburg.
At the time, the Pistorius family released a media statement saying Mortimer "aggressively interrogated him" on matters relating to murder trial.
Mortimer told a newspaper that Pistorius insulted President Jacob Zuma's family and his own friends, resulting in the altercation.
Batchelor and Pistorius also had a confrontation where the paralympian allegedly threatened to break Batchelor's legs, and Batchelor made threats in return.
This was after Pistorius found out his girlfriend at the time had been allegedly cheating on him with Batchelor's friend, coal mining millionaire and TV producer Quinton van der Burgh.
On September 12 Pistorius was found guilty of the culpable homicide of Steenkamp, but not guilty of her murder. Pistorius had claimed he thought there was a burglar in his toilet when he fired four shots through the locked door in the early hours of February 14 last year, killing Steenkamp. The State had argued he killed her during an argument.
Masipa also found Pistorius guilty of discharging a firearm in public, when a shot went off as he held his friend Darren Fresco's Glock pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Melrose Arch, Johannesburg, in January 2013.
Pistorius was found not guilty on two firearms-related charges -- illegal possession of ammunition, and shooting through the open sunroof of a car with his 9mm pistol while driving with friends in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012.
Source : Sapa /aa/dm/fg
Date : 16 Oct 2014 09:43
Sure...principles could go in any direction, cannot deny that. I don't know...maybe I just don't know marine1 for as long as you have. I agree with most of what he had to say on the Israel/Hamas issue....I can't brush every Muslim with the same brush though....we're dealing with individuals.
As for Oscar, punishment is due...regardless
Midnight_choir_drunk
Expert Member
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If you expect society to uphold a high level of ethical integrity, you have to first ask this of yourself. Its out of love and nurture for my loved ones that I support an ethical and compassionate society. Its not out of spite to them.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
STEENKAMP FAMILY NOT SEEKING REVENGE: COUSIN
Reeva Steenkamp's family are not seeking revenge against her boyfriend Oscar Pistorius but do want him to go to jail, the High Court in Pretoria heard on Thursday.
"My family are not seeking revenge," Kim Martin, Steenkamp's cousin, said to questions from prosecutor Gerrie Nel.
"We just feel that if you take someone's life, shoot behind a door, shoot an unarmed person... You need sufficient punishment."
She said she was initially afraid that prison would be bad for Pistorius but after the case understood that prisons did cater for people with disabilities.
Martin told the court that everyone had suffered in the case and that Pistorius should go to jail for what he had done to her family, his family and to Steenkamp.
"Everyone has suffered here. We need to send a message to society," Martin said.
"I don't think the suggested punishment will fit the crime."
Under cross-examination, Pistorius's lawyer, Barry Roux asked her if she would be against a prison term if the conditions would not be humane for a disabled person.
She replied that she would not want anyone to live under inhumane conditions.
On September 12, Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide for the Valentine's Day 2013, shooting Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse. The court found him not guilty of murdering Steenkamp.
Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.
On Wednesday social worker and probation officer Anette Vergeer recommended community service for Pistorius.
Pistorius was found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's
restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013. He was found not guilty of
shooting through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September
30, 2012, and of illegal possession of ammunition.
Source : Sapa /dm/aa/fg
Date : 16 Oct 2014 10:02
Reeva Steenkamp's family are not seeking revenge against her boyfriend Oscar Pistorius but do want him to go to jail, the High Court in Pretoria heard on Thursday.
"My family are not seeking revenge," Kim Martin, Steenkamp's cousin, said to questions from prosecutor Gerrie Nel.
"We just feel that if you take someone's life, shoot behind a door, shoot an unarmed person... You need sufficient punishment."
She said she was initially afraid that prison would be bad for Pistorius but after the case understood that prisons did cater for people with disabilities.
Martin told the court that everyone had suffered in the case and that Pistorius should go to jail for what he had done to her family, his family and to Steenkamp.
"Everyone has suffered here. We need to send a message to society," Martin said.
"I don't think the suggested punishment will fit the crime."
Under cross-examination, Pistorius's lawyer, Barry Roux asked her if she would be against a prison term if the conditions would not be humane for a disabled person.
She replied that she would not want anyone to live under inhumane conditions.
On September 12, Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide for the Valentine's Day 2013, shooting Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse. The court found him not guilty of murdering Steenkamp.
Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.
On Wednesday social worker and probation officer Anette Vergeer recommended community service for Pistorius.
Pistorius was found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's
restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013. He was found not guilty of
shooting through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September
30, 2012, and of illegal possession of ammunition.
Source : Sapa /dm/aa/fg
Date : 16 Oct 2014 10:02
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
NEW WITNESS CALLED IN OSCAR CASE
The acting national commissioner for correctional services was called as the second witness for the State in the aggravation of sentencing for Oscar Pistorius in the High Court in Pretoria on Thursday.
"I said in Parliament [on Wednesday] that the department is ready to take in people with disabilities in prison," Zach Modise said.
On September 12, Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide on for the Valentines Day 2013, shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse.
The court found him not guilty of murdering Steenkamp. Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.
Pistorius was also found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013. He was found not guilty of shooting through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012, and of illegal possession of ammunition.
Source : Sapa /dm/aa
Date : 16 Oct 2014 10:04
The acting national commissioner for correctional services was called as the second witness for the State in the aggravation of sentencing for Oscar Pistorius in the High Court in Pretoria on Thursday.
"I said in Parliament [on Wednesday] that the department is ready to take in people with disabilities in prison," Zach Modise said.
On September 12, Pistorius was convicted of culpable homicide on for the Valentines Day 2013, shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in his Pretoria townhouse.
The court found him not guilty of murdering Steenkamp. Pistorius shot Steenkamp through the locked door of the toilet, apparently thinking she was an intruder about to emerge and attack him. She was hit in the hip, arm, and head.
Pistorius was also found guilty of firing a pistol under a table at Tasha's restaurant in Johannesburg in January 2013. He was found not guilty of shooting through the open sunroof of a car in Modderfontein on September 30, 2012, and of illegal possession of ammunition.
Source : Sapa /dm/aa
Date : 16 Oct 2014 10:04
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