I have made a post on the EU forums as blizzard is looking at key talents etc.
I was just wondering what you guys think i can add under paladin talents and spells that i might have left out.
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Seal of command – Simply put, its just to unreliable, most of the time Seal of righteousness has preference as it will at least give you some of your mana spent casting it `s worth.I have had it
Seal of Crusader – our white damage is not enough to make this spell worthwhile. The only thing useful about this spell is the judgement that increases the holy damage. I am yet to hear of someone actually recasting it for any other purpose than to just immediately judge it.
Improved Devotion Aura – Usually just a talent spend to get deeper into the tree. Maybe add spell reflect or something similar to it cause as it stand all that armour means nothing anyway against casters
Redoubt – Good spell but definitely not something that you can count on which makes choosing armour harder.
Precision - Maybe change this to a guaranteed castable spell crit on next magic spell cast like the holy divine favour.
Improved Righteous Fury – Does help but in connection with the fact that most our aggro is re – active instead of active. It become hard getting a bonus aggro boost out of this as you just not pushing out enough holy damage through Holy Shield and retribution aura as off tank since most of the time you not getting hit. And not having all the talents and stats necessary to take huge hits , most of the time we have to settle for off tank however as with various other spells counting on being hit , you end up being last on aggro list cause you just simply not getting holy damage out like holy shield and retri aura.
Improved Hammer of Justice – Problem is the amount of immunity around for it to start with coupled with the fact that it has a very short cast radius. It would become usefull if you could use it to stun casters that are far away.
Reckoning – Once again the fact that it is reactive instead of a active spell means that unless you getting hit you will never see it. This makes even off tanking very difficult as the boss is not hitting you but you are expected to be 2nd on aggro list if tank gets polymorph, stunned etc.
Righteous Defense - Just change it to work same as warriors taunt. All paladins that use this spell, macro it anyway to work the same.
Holy Shield & Improved Holy Shield – Cast must be able to overlap. Meaning cool down should be less than spell duration. Playing on 700 ping you just pray very hard that those crush hits don’t come flying through with that moment your holy shield is down. Another option is to maybe add another element to it after you spend 3 or more talents on it could be to add a pro active ability to it to actually hit the mob with the shield, cause at the moment, if you off tanking you have to keep casting holy shield just for when aggro does turn to you . But since you not getting any constant mana you go /oom relatively quickly by casting something that has to be up all the time anyway without actually getting something in return. If you could do something proactive like hit the mob with your shield every now and then, at least the mana is not going to complete waste.
Ardent Defender – Being a leapable talent does not help with hard-hitting bosses. Rather just increase stamina. Or add defence stats.
Avenger's Shield – Love this spell but as a paladin’s only long range in conjunction with holy shock spell it lacks.
Holy Shock – It should jump to close targets as “shock” in nature does. At the moment it lacks as a serious damage or healing spell. (And if we could actually get it to look like a shock as well and not the same as a level 1 priest spell.)
Food for thought…
( note that retri comments are what I have heard as I have not really tried it. I used to be full protection paladin since I started character, but the fact that warriors and druids take huge hits better caused me to have problems getting groups and thus I changed to healing paladin. All the views inside this post are just out of personal opinion of what I can remember at the top of my head)
As paladin, we don’t have a charge, hamstring etc and basically just one stun spell. Fighting against any spell caster makes this very hard because we just got no way possible to catch up with an opponent in PVP or PVE situations.
This means that a any opponent can just kite us to death. .
Having to go into full protection or 40 points into holy (Holy shock) or 50 for avengers shield to get a ranged spell doesn’t help a lot.
I realise that maybe Paladins cant use guns throw items etc. But we are a spell caster none the less. At least give us some more distance on spells like judgement (for pulling when in PVE environment if there is crowd control like rogue sap. Using avenger shield is good until cc is involved, then it become useless cause you cant control to which mobs its going to jump.) and then bigger range on stun so we can at least catch up to the ranged fighters .
Over all I like the paladin but as most paladins I had to drop tanking as we simply cannot compete in the higher end game instances and had to specialise in healing to be any use to groups. Our DPS class just isn’t strong enough. Our tanking doesn’t have enough going for us compared to other tank classes. We cannot off tank because on main encounters we just are not getting hit so aggro generation suffers badly also spells like judgement of wisdom does not contribute to mana recovery so we go OOM very quick , our white dps is not high enough to be 2nd on the aggro list if tank had to loose aggro.
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Any opinions and info that you can think of that i possibly missed?
I was just wondering what you guys think i can add under paladin talents and spells that i might have left out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Seal of command – Simply put, its just to unreliable, most of the time Seal of righteousness has preference as it will at least give you some of your mana spent casting it `s worth.I have had it
Seal of Crusader – our white damage is not enough to make this spell worthwhile. The only thing useful about this spell is the judgement that increases the holy damage. I am yet to hear of someone actually recasting it for any other purpose than to just immediately judge it.
Improved Devotion Aura – Usually just a talent spend to get deeper into the tree. Maybe add spell reflect or something similar to it cause as it stand all that armour means nothing anyway against casters
Redoubt – Good spell but definitely not something that you can count on which makes choosing armour harder.
Precision - Maybe change this to a guaranteed castable spell crit on next magic spell cast like the holy divine favour.
Improved Righteous Fury – Does help but in connection with the fact that most our aggro is re – active instead of active. It become hard getting a bonus aggro boost out of this as you just not pushing out enough holy damage through Holy Shield and retribution aura as off tank since most of the time you not getting hit. And not having all the talents and stats necessary to take huge hits , most of the time we have to settle for off tank however as with various other spells counting on being hit , you end up being last on aggro list cause you just simply not getting holy damage out like holy shield and retri aura.
Improved Hammer of Justice – Problem is the amount of immunity around for it to start with coupled with the fact that it has a very short cast radius. It would become usefull if you could use it to stun casters that are far away.
Reckoning – Once again the fact that it is reactive instead of a active spell means that unless you getting hit you will never see it. This makes even off tanking very difficult as the boss is not hitting you but you are expected to be 2nd on aggro list if tank gets polymorph, stunned etc.
Righteous Defense - Just change it to work same as warriors taunt. All paladins that use this spell, macro it anyway to work the same.
Holy Shield & Improved Holy Shield – Cast must be able to overlap. Meaning cool down should be less than spell duration. Playing on 700 ping you just pray very hard that those crush hits don’t come flying through with that moment your holy shield is down. Another option is to maybe add another element to it after you spend 3 or more talents on it could be to add a pro active ability to it to actually hit the mob with the shield, cause at the moment, if you off tanking you have to keep casting holy shield just for when aggro does turn to you . But since you not getting any constant mana you go /oom relatively quickly by casting something that has to be up all the time anyway without actually getting something in return. If you could do something proactive like hit the mob with your shield every now and then, at least the mana is not going to complete waste.
Ardent Defender – Being a leapable talent does not help with hard-hitting bosses. Rather just increase stamina. Or add defence stats.
Avenger's Shield – Love this spell but as a paladin’s only long range in conjunction with holy shock spell it lacks.
Holy Shock – It should jump to close targets as “shock” in nature does. At the moment it lacks as a serious damage or healing spell. (And if we could actually get it to look like a shock as well and not the same as a level 1 priest spell.)
Food for thought…
( note that retri comments are what I have heard as I have not really tried it. I used to be full protection paladin since I started character, but the fact that warriors and druids take huge hits better caused me to have problems getting groups and thus I changed to healing paladin. All the views inside this post are just out of personal opinion of what I can remember at the top of my head)
As paladin, we don’t have a charge, hamstring etc and basically just one stun spell. Fighting against any spell caster makes this very hard because we just got no way possible to catch up with an opponent in PVP or PVE situations.
This means that a any opponent can just kite us to death. .
Having to go into full protection or 40 points into holy (Holy shock) or 50 for avengers shield to get a ranged spell doesn’t help a lot.
I realise that maybe Paladins cant use guns throw items etc. But we are a spell caster none the less. At least give us some more distance on spells like judgement (for pulling when in PVE environment if there is crowd control like rogue sap. Using avenger shield is good until cc is involved, then it become useless cause you cant control to which mobs its going to jump.) and then bigger range on stun so we can at least catch up to the ranged fighters .
Over all I like the paladin but as most paladins I had to drop tanking as we simply cannot compete in the higher end game instances and had to specialise in healing to be any use to groups. Our DPS class just isn’t strong enough. Our tanking doesn’t have enough going for us compared to other tank classes. We cannot off tank because on main encounters we just are not getting hit so aggro generation suffers badly also spells like judgement of wisdom does not contribute to mana recovery so we go OOM very quick , our white dps is not high enough to be 2nd on the aggro list if tank had to loose aggro.
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Any opinions and info that you can think of that i possibly missed?
3 things i'd like to see changed would prolly be Redoubt, the Holy Shield overlap and skipping of Argent Defender
