Powerline networking for fiber?

[hereandthere]

I understood all the advice so far to say that Ethernet is best for tv so the extender doesn't sound like a viable option since the extender would connect to my router only via wifi. Is this correct? Or maybe you are saying instead of a router the Ethernet cable goes directly into the tv only (actually has to connect to mygica as tv isn't smart), plus I get an extender for separate wireless purposes in this area? Extenders seem to cost the same as routers, but maybe it's a quality thing.

 

[q12485]

I understood all the advice so far to say that Ethernet is best for tv so the extender doesn't sound like a viable option since the extender would connect to my router only via wifi. Is this correct? Or maybe you are saying instead of a router the Ethernet cable goes directly into the tv only (actually has to connect to mygica as tv isn't smart), plus I get an extender for separate wireless purposes in this area? Extenders seem to cost the same as routers, but maybe it's a quality thing.

If you run an ethernet cable to your TV location then it would connect to your Mygica box which would then connect via HDMI to your TV (Assume the model of Magic you have has an ethernet port...). Job done for the TV but still only poor WiFi for other devices etc. If you had used a power line extender then depending on which model it would have given you WiFi as well as an ethernet port to connect to your Mygica box, both problems fixed.

If you run the ethernet cable to your TV room and want to improve WiFi coverage then you could buy a (cheap) router, plug the ethernet cable into it, use it for WiFi coverage and connect it to your Mygica via another ethernet port.

There is no right or wrong way to achieve what you want, depends on what devices you want to connect, how many devices and where you need to connect around the house. Some people will recommend only to use cable but that can be impractical and expensive, some recommend power line as being simple and flexible (you can move them and add locations) while others have had a bad experience with them. Others will advise getting higher grade WiFi access points that can cover the house etc.

Good luck...

 

[ponder]

I understood all the advice so far to say that Ethernet is best for tv so the extender doesn't sound like a viable option since the extender would connect to my router only via wifi. Is this correct? Or maybe you are saying instead of a router the Ethernet cable goes directly into the tv only (actually has to connect to mygica as tv isn't smart), plus I get an extender for separate wireless purposes in this area? Extenders seem to cost the same as routers, but maybe it's a quality thing.

You are complicating things and going in circles. Take the ethernet cable on the tv side and plug it into a new wifi router that also has a 4/8 port switch, you are now DONE.

The wifi router on the tv side will take care of your wifi needs all the way into the garden and you can plug devices requiring ethernet cable into it as well, ie tv/tv streaming box etc.

 

[hereandthere]

Ok guys thanks for the advice. So a router it is. I couldn't do powerline as tv is on a different circuit.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Hello hereandthere,

I see that you are fairly new, so firstly, welcome to the forum.

http://www.tp-link.com/us/win10compatibility.html
From this link. Not an issue for tv though. My husband brought home mygica1900. Installed but painfully slow on wifi.

You are quite correct, you do not need any drivers for powerline networking products.

Thanks in advance again for your patience, especially Trompie et al. Sensing a certain level of frustration.

Please forgive some of my forumites, many of them may have great techie skills, but have not exactly mastered the art of conversation.

Ok guys thanks for the advice. So a router it is. I couldn't do powerline as tv is on a different circuit.

Powerline networking products usually work regardless of being on the same circuit or not, that is because (in most normal home situations) all of the electricity comes from the same distribution bus (the stuff inside your DB board, where the tripswitches and earthleakage are). Have you tried a powerline device yet?

From reading your posts, it seems that the current wireless network does work, but it is slow. There could be many reasons for this, but more often than not, it is related to proximity, and the powerline networking devices could solve the problem by literally bringing the access point closer to the mygica1900 device. Another solution would be to run an ethernet cable from the current access point to the mygica1900 device -- I do not know the device but looking at http://www.mygica.com/Enjoy-TV/ATV1900-Pro_134.html# it appears that it does have an ethernet port. Looking at your post, you also mentioned that you have a Sony Bravia television, which (as far as I am aware) also has an ethernet port (and as far as I recall, the wifi add-on option is pretty overpriced).

So, as far as I can see, you have two, maybe three options:
1) Try a powerline networking solution, noting that the mygica1900 solution is AC capable (and therefore supports higher speeds), so preferably something that is also IEEE 802.11AC capable, for example like http://www.tp-link.co.za/products/details/cat-18_TL-WPA8630-KIT.html You will notice that it has 3 ethernet ports, in addition to being able to extend wifi, so one of them would be perfect for your Bravia TV too.
If your powerline networking solution uses the older IEEE 802.11N-series standards (like N900 or N600), then it should still be OK, because the AC1900 standard (which your mygica1900 solution ostensibly supports), should be "backwards compatible" with it. If you are considering IEEE 802.11N series adapters, it is important to note that not all use the 5GHz range, which is good for high throughput. Seeing that you like research, here is a link covering all of the IEEE wireless standards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11.

2) Lay some ethernet cables to the TV and mygica1900. From both a speed and security perspective, this is by far the best solution, although the cons are that it can be expensive, unsightly and a lot of trouble.

3) Some wireless network extenders use the wifi instead of the powerline to "talk to" one another. These may or may not work, and if they do, could be slow (back to square one). Also, they have variable configurations, like using the 2.4 GHz band in a half-duplex manner (the majority of them are like this, yes, it is slower), or if they support dual band (both 2.4 and 5GHz), then they use either the 2.4 GHz or 5GHz channel as the uplink, and distribute the signal on the other channel. Pros are that you only need one of them (they do not need pairs -- it is a cheap and simple entry solution). Cons: Usually, the 2.4 GHz channel is chosen as the uplink (because of its greater range), leaving the 5GHz channel only for distribution. Which is great for speed, but limits the endpoints (not all support 5GHz). IMHO you probably do not want one of these solutions.

I do hope that you come right, and please let us know how it goes?

 

[hereandthere]

Thanks for the warm welcome infscrtyrisk. Rather an electic sounding name you have. Is it Infinite scroll...?
Thanks for the detailed advice, especially regarding the possibility of powerline. Will try to get my head around it all and discuss with the man of the house, who has to do the hard physical labour which doesn't get farmed out. Neither of us are techies as you've gathered (my background is legal), however he is pretty handy and although he normally scoffs at my tech 'ability', was impressed when I first told him about powerline, so I feel I have a slight edge now .
Will let you know the end result. Sadly our model tv can't connect hence the connection via HDMI and AV ports to the mygica, which has wireless and wired Ethernet connection.

 

[hereandthere]

Oh wow; at each step there are more things to think about! MOTH said it will be easy for him to lay the cable. So I just looked at Cat6 cable for sale (30 metres) so as to be 'future proofed' for 10gigs. This comes with rj45 connector e.g. Bidorbuy for only R139.
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/284160124/Cat_6_Network_Cable_30m_High_Quality.html
But they don't advertise if this cable is straight through or crossover which I read about elsewhere. I can ask the seller, but which do I need? If I'm understanding correctly, crossover can go from my existing router in my study to the additional router to be purchased for extended wifi experience in my lounge to garden (used as an AP on the same SSID but different channel). Is a straight through cable only good for connecting to the tv (or in my case mygica) and therefore no good for connecting to a multipurpose router?

 

[ponder]

Oh wow; at each step there are more things to think about! MOTH said it will be easy for him to lay the cable. So I just looked at Cat6 cable for sale (30 metres) so as to be 'future proofed' for 10gigs. This comes with rj45 connector e.g. Bidorbuy for only R139.
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/284160124/Cat_6_Network_Cable_30m_High_Quality.html
But they don't advertise if this cable is straight through or crossover which I read about elsewhere. I can ask the seller, but which do I need? If I'm understanding correctly, crossover can go from my existing router in my study to the additional router to be purchased for extended wifi experience in my lounge to garden (used as an AP on the same SSID but different channel). Is a straight through cable only good for connecting to the tv (or in my case mygica) and therefore no good for connecting to a multipurpose router?

If it's not stated then it's straight.

If it's 1Gb/s ports on the devices then it will do x-over automatically internally, even newer 10/100Mb/s devices will do this but not all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-dependent_interface#Auto_MDI-X

 

[Kloofvreter]

There you go.

What do you mean with and without plug points?

I do not see how the OS matters at all. I use Tenda Powerline adapters for various devices, 2 Win 10 PC's and an Android media player.

 

[Goliath]

Literally had same issue for my boss's house last week when he got fiber installed, got one of these and works like a charm (thus far):

https://www.takealot.com/netis-300mbps-av600-wireless-powerline-adapter-kit/PLID44310463

On the old adsl wifi network he had two TP-Link wifi extenders but those didn't work well with the fibre for some reason

Edit: must also add he just have 10mb/s up and download speed.. not sure if this extender would handle more than that faster.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Oh wow; at each step there are more things to think about! MOTH said it will be easy for him to lay the cable. So I just looked at Cat6 cable for sale (30 metres) so as to be 'future proofed' for 10gigs. This comes with rj45 connector e.g. Bidorbuy for only R139.
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/284160124/Cat_6_Network_Cable_30m_High_Quality.html
But they don't advertise if this cable is straight through or crossover which I read about elsewhere. I can ask the seller, but which do I need? If I'm understanding correctly, crossover can go from my existing router in my study to the additional router to be purchased for extended wifi experience in my lounge to garden (used as an AP on the same SSID but different channel). Is a straight through cable only good for connecting to the tv (or in my case mygica) and therefore no good for connecting to a multipurpose router?

Hello hereandthere, true, it is akin to asking for a costed invoice on a five year old case [please forgive the deliberate jab at the legal profession ;-)]

The cable is easy to lay -- "straight through" is basically "one to one" meaning that every cable on connector number one is connected to the same cable on connector number two.
A "crossover cable" basically just "twists" the send and receive wires. So, if you need one, it really just depends on how the wires are "crimped" on the connector. And it can easily be reversed (if MOTH has a cable crimper (a pretty cheap tool)), as per ponder's link. So it is really not too much of a trainsmash. Plus, as per ponder's post, with 1 Gbps this is pretty much automagic. So if I were you, I would just order a straight through cable. Better still if MOTH has a cable crimper and some spare cable lugs (and rubber boots if you want pretty connectors) because then he can make his own ones for you.

As always, let us know how it goes, and how we can assist?

 

[Genisys]

In 99.9% of instances a normal home user will use a straight connection. Crossover is really not used that often anymore these days, for a home use case anyway.

 

[hereandthere]

Great, so I think I understand the cable at least!
Sorry to harp on what seemed to be a closed subject, but while looking for the second router to buy I came across a few posts recommending not using a router when you actually simply need a WAP (for my extended wireless needs) even though you can set the router to work this way.Potential problem such as double NATting may occur or it may be blocked by ISP or simply not work, when you only need to extend the existing signal. But I can't see how my tv box can also plug into a WAP. Do I ignore this issue and use router with 4/8 ports such as ponder mentioned? Also wondering why so many sites say to use an old router if lying around, instead of WAP. Is it not common to want both cable and wireless at the same point?

 

[Trompie67]

What do you mean with and without plug points?

I do not see how the OS matters at all. I use Tenda Powerline adapters for various devices, 2 Win 10 PC's and an Android media player.

You do not seem to be actually following this thread properly. Look at the links posted. OP posted a link which shows the powerline adaptor which has in integrated plug point in it.

My point, as stated, was exactly that - OS is irrelevant as they have nothing to do with your PC or OS.

 

[hereandthere]

Hi Trompie
I asked about the powerline adaptors initially, however concluded on the balance of everyone's advice that I will rather use cable for my tv. My tv is at the exact same location where I need the extended wifi. So are you saying that regardless of cable running to this location, I should use a powerline adapter for wifi needs next to my tv?

 

[ponder]

Great, so I think I understand the cable at least!
Sorry to harp on what seemed to be a closed subject, but while looking for the second router to buy I came across a few posts recommending not using a router when you actually simply need a WAP (for my extended wireless needs) even though you can set the router to work this way.Potential problem such as double NATting may occur or it may be blocked by ISP or simply not work, when you only need to extend the existing signal. But I can't see how my tv box can also plug into a WAP. Do I ignore this issue and use router with 4/8 ports such as ponder mentioned? Also wondering why so many sites say to use an old router if lying around, instead of WAP. Is it not common to want both cable and wireless at the same point?

You can get a wireless access point (wap) with 4 port switch. With a wifi router you can disable nat/dhcp etc, it's a more functional device.

 

[Trompie67]

Hi Trompie
I asked about the powerline adaptors initially, however concluded on the balance of everyone's advice that I will rather use cable for my tv. My tv is at the exact same location where I need the extended wifi. So are you saying that regardless of cable running to this location, I should use a powerline adapter for wifi needs next to my tv?

Nope. Not saying anything of the sort.

If it was me I would use powerline adapters. 1 from wherever the router is & the second at the TV. Actually, that IS what I do. 1 at router, 1 at TV unit which feeds into a switch. Switch feeds TV, media player, AVR, PS4 & Blu-Ray player. It really doesn't get easier. Plug & play. Happy days.

 

[Kloofvreter]

You do not seem to be actually following this thread properly. Look at the links posted. OP posted a link which shows the powerline adaptor which has in integrated plug point in it.

My point, as stated, was exactly that - OS is irrelevant as they have nothing to do with your PC or OS.

Yes, didn't see that one link. I wasn't sure what he meant by plug points. Now I see it's a powerline adapter with a power outlet.

 

[infscrtyrisk]

Hello hereandthere,

... while looking for the second router to buy I came across a few posts recommending not using a router when you actually simply need a WAP (for my extended wireless needs) even though you can set the router to work this way.

A good question, and I am sure that you will get many different answers. You are basically asking the question about the difference between a WAP and a router, so I will try and explain without getting too technical. The term "router" has kind of evolved over the past 20 years. In the old days a router was a device that connected dissimilar TCP/IP networks. So you would get a device that would connect a 10baseT ethernet network to a 802.5 token ring network, and then also have a serial port for WAN connections (over HDLC). This device was termed a router. Then soon almost everything went to ethernet (due to lower cost) with the result is that the router became a device that routed packets at OSI layer 3 (IP), vs a bridge or switch which forwards packets at OSI layer 2 (a good reference on the OSI model at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN8PcdOdcHs, I tried to choose one that was not non-mysoginistic. It is a pretty abstract concept, so do not worry if you do not grasp it at first glance). A wireless access point (WAP) is basically a dumbed down version of a router, with limited functionality. Its primary purpose is to get packets from a router, or another WAP, to itself (usually via an ethernet cable), where it can distribute the signal again via wireless. It does not (or should not) concern itself with the routing of packets, but basically "copies" the packets from the upstream router and distributes them via wireless. So in a way it is a "wireless switch", if something like that were to exist. So if you can get hold of a WAP, and there is a good business case to use it (for example if it were substantially cheaper), then yes, it would be suitable to resolve your problem. The reality is that WAPs are in many instances more expensive than home routers, because they are typically aimed at the corporate market, with corporate features (such as RADIUS and DIAMETER support, SNMP monitoring, and a whole lot of other stuff that you probably do not want in *your* home).

Potential problem such as double NATting may occur or it may be blocked by ISP or simply not work, when you only need to extend the existing signal.

I think that your problem, and the way you described it, will not need any NAT beyond a "many to one" NAT which takes place at your internet gateway. If you get a router that automatically enables NAT, then you would simply turn the NAT off. If you cannot turn it off, then return it because it is rubbish.

But I can't see how my tv box can also plug into a WAP. Do I ignore this issue and use router with 4/8 ports such as ponder mentioned? Also wondering why so many sites say to use an old router if lying around, instead of WAP. Is it not common to want both cable and wireless at the same point?

I cannot speak for the other sites, but they are probably recommending the use of an old router because a)it works and b)it doesn't cost anything.
You need to choose whether you want to use ethernet cable or wireless between your second router / WAP and the tv box. My understanding is that the TV box supports both. Unless you redecorate your TV room often (and therefore move stuff around a lot), the cable connection is first prize. Wireless, as a rule, is less secure and will have less performance, but it is more convenient because you can place stuff where you want it, and change it more often. Then there is the issue of legacy devices, like your Bravia TV, which could probably benefit from a cable connection (even if it is only to update its 6 year old firmware). And having wireless is fun, because you can google stuff on your mobile or tablet while you watch "Gone with the Wind", or catch up on the MyBB forum.

 

[hereandthere]

Thanks for all the PT you did answering my question, especially finding the female presenter. Nice touch. You can ask me at least one legal question if you like. Like you said I was puzzled by the price of WAPs, so feel reassured now buying a router. I did read about switching off router function but was wondering why WAP wasn't first option, so the history explains it nicely thanks. Our 2011 tv isn't a smart tv like other Sony Bravia models. We bought it a fraction too early so it's not 'ready'either, however the tv box provides the network capability.
I accept Trompie has good experience with powerline, but am opting for cable here because it's easy enough and will definitely provide a good connection. I may however try the powerline elsewhere. Not sure how long tvs last these days but we'll probably buy a smart tv in a couple of years. I don't think ours can be upgraded in the first place. It's a KDL-32EX400 if you're interested. Will use a router at the connection point, especially for getting a bluetooth speaker further into my garden. More Blowin' in the Wind than Gone with the Wind, but yes!