Problems with Data (GPRS / HSDPA) [from] 20:45, 19/07/2006

vodacom3g

Vodacom Representative
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feo said:
GayTechie brought up MXit, v3g id like to know if Vodacom is to blame for MXit being so slow at night? Because they recently upgraded servers to cope with the load so i dont think the problem is on their side. Also people on other networks dont seem to have a problem.

Around what time do you see this?

If I look at the network utilisation graphs, there's no (serious) climb in utilisation in the evenings, the network is pretty busy all day long with the first drop in utilisation around 1am and then it picks up again around 6am!

I chat to the MXiT guys nearly daily and know they battle to cope with the massive uptake of their service, which is great. I think they hit the 1 million mark recently! THe bulk of their users are on Vodacom's network, so we're actually looking how we can improve the MXiT service by bringing the servers closer to the network. Currently, the peering is via the internet, so any slowdowns there could affect you as well.

Are you connecting via HTTP or via the MXiT socket connection?

Also, which APN do you use?
 

RompelStompel

Senior Member
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Nov 17, 2005
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Luckily I'm not on a contract , otherwise would be seriously mad

Since returning from Varsity holidays , 3G / HSDPA extremely slow and unstable.

Merlin U740 is used for Vodacom HSDPA access.

Area is Hatfield , PTA . Problem keeps on appearing in the night time :confused:

What's up with this - my old dial-up connection was faster that my HSDPA ???

Ta in advance

Rompies
 

pre-g-user

Active Member
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Here's something VERY interesting. My GPRS has become worse each day since last week Thursday. So bad tonight that I am unable even to send or receive emails. SO ... I borrowed a friends IS dialup account just to be able to get some work done tonight and amazingly with the antiquated telkom exchange I go through I managed to get a 26.4 Kbps dialup connection.

Now most of you are saying OUCH thats slow. Actually NO it's not. In fact right now it's at least 10 times faster than GPRS has been for the last 6 days. Now that is REALLY saying something.

My decision to look elsewhere for a decent data provider is now made up. I have given Vodacom enough time to sort out their network (approx 16 months) and things just seem to get worse.

To say it's because of all the new HSDPA cards out there is just plain ridiculous. What sort of planning does Vodacom do (IF ANY)? Just sell thousands of cards and then hope it does not fall on it's back. Judging from V3G's replies ... this is exactly what he's saying. And judging from my experience as a VERY EARLY user and adopter of Vodacom's Data Services this is EXACTLY the modus operandi.

How can Vodacom explain that a 26.4 Kbps dialup is beating their GPRS product HANDS DOWN !!!!

Anyone wanna buy a 3G/HSDPA Card ... LOL !!!! LOL !!! LOL !!!!
 

SJB

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May 9, 2005
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108
Anti Flame War - Love Peace but connection problems on increase

Ever since vodacom sorted my connection problems in April I have been running fine until earlier this month when intermittent disconnects started occurring.

This seems to be more prevalent during night time (or it may be that that is the time that I would like to work....)

I allready reconnected 3 time tonight (last hour or so..)

Are other forumites also experiencing something similar? Seems like it though... V3G what is happening?

I have a full signal 5 bars according to VMC. (Thanks to a cell extender)
 

Skeptik

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My contact says the same. "Frequent disconnects from Vodacom in the evening." This has been happening ever since 3G launched.
(MtN is far far far more stable)
 

vodacom3g

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pre-g-user said:
To say it's because of all the new HSDPA cards out there is just plain ridiculous. What sort of planning does Vodacom do (IF ANY)? Just sell thousands of cards and then hope it does not fall on it's back. Judging from V3G's replies ... this is exactly what he's saying.
Where did I say this?? :confused:

pre-g, where are you based?
 

pre-g-user

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Hi V3G

I am based in Magaliesburg. I have had a great connection for almost 4 months but now it is too terrible for words. Do you want me to PM you my details?

Cheers
 
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vodacom3g said:
A few months ago, the network was not under the same load it's now, we did not have so many HSDPA cards out there


  • capacity planning
  • wrong KPI's - stability and reliability absolutely necessary if wireless broadband is to become the de facto networking solution


like this it can't happen - stuffed with even basic e-mail

can anyone here confirm whether the Voda HSDPA cards locked for the Voda network, or can they be used on V?
 
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vodacom3g

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pre-g-user said:
Hi V3G

I am based in Magaliesburg. I have had a great connection for almost 4 months but now it is too terrible for words. Do you want me to PM you my details?

Cheers

Please
 

vodacom3g

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Rumpelstilzkin said:
  • capacity planning
  • wrong KPI's - stability and reliability absolutely necessary if wireless broadband is to become the de facto networking solution

I think the point was more that the number of terminals on the network have opened up scenarios not seen before.
 

bam1

Active Member
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V3G, as per my PM last night, I am getting very bad speeds on HSDPA in JHB, at home Sandringham it is ave 100 kbps and in Sandton I cannot stay connected for more than a few minutes at a time.
 

feo

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vodacom3g said:
Around what time do you see this?

If I look at the network utilisation graphs, there's no (serious) climb in utilisation in the evenings, the network is pretty busy all day long with the first drop in utilisation around 1am and then it picks up again around 6am!

I chat to the MXiT guys nearly daily and know they battle to cope with the massive uptake of their service, which is great. I think they hit the 1 million mark recently! THe bulk of their users are on Vodacom's network, so we're actually looking how we can improve the MXiT service by bringing the servers closer to the network. Currently, the peering is via the internet, so any slowdowns there could affect you as well.

Are you connecting via HTTP or via the MXiT socket connection?

Also, which APN do you use?

Well usually between 8 and 10 at night it's the worst. Well my MXit always shows 'express' so it's the faster of the two (I can't remember if HTTP or socket is faster:eek: ) I currently use the Vlive APN. I'll use the normal one tonight to see if there's any difference. Also I think my phone might be in need of a firmware upgrade but the guys always give me a sad excuse that I must pick it up the day so I've left it till now. I always thought firmware flash are done the same day:confused:
 

74466

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Firmware flashes only takes a few minutes, (my fiancè is a techie) and clients can in most cases w8 for it to be done. All depends on where you take the phone
 
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vodacom3g said:
I think the point was more that the number of terminals on the network have opened up scenarios not seen before.

need clarification on the terminology
  • terminals - does that refer to the distributed access points at which the wireless connection takes place
  • unexpected scenarios - can you give an example of what that means from a computer networking perspective
  • are you sure that this is a "new" technical phenomena - or unexpected: as unexpected is culpable although it may be understandable, whereas "new" is not; ie one implies we didn't do our homework, the other: we could not conceivable have known that such a thing could arise (would doubt Voda is experimenting with new globally ground breaking stuff -expect that at very best you might be early global adopters)

surely the technical networking matters even on these new technologies are documented - can you provide links to tech sites?


all of this, of course, does not change the fact that subscribers are being billed for services already marketed and sold, and continue to be billed, that have now suffered beyond what can be regarded as a reasonable disruption for a test, as a result of the deployment of these new technologies - and at what point do we reach the stage that Vodacom has to show some acknowledgement of that fact, either as an admission of an error of judgement (this is ultimately a business decision that was made) as to the market readiness, or of strategy: placing the stability of what we have at risk over the potential gains from the deployment

as stated previously there are certain market pressures that might lead a big player in the ZA cell arena to take those risks at this time (Sept industry changes), but in the absence of any statements from Voda this cannot be discerned with certainty from the outside, and even this forum has been vocal, saying that the openness by the company that you so emphatically proclaim has been found wanting
 
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vodacom3g

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Rumpelstilzkin said:
need clarification on the terminology
*terminals - does that refer to the distributed access points at which the wireless connection takes place
Network speak for handsets, data cards, etc. The stuff you use to connect.
*unexpected scenarios - can you give an example of what that means from a computer networking perspective
*are you sure that this is a "new" technical phenomena - or unexpected: as unexpected is culpable although it may be understandable, whereas "new" is not; ie one implies we didn't do our homework, the other: we could not conceivable have known that such a thing could arise (would doubt Voda is experimenting with new globally ground breaking stuff -expect that at very best you might be early global adopters)
Say you build a router network, you keep on adding routers and they happily chat to each other and sort their routing tables out. Everyone works. Then you add the nth+1 router and it all goes wonky. After investigation you find a table or counter or something that could not scale to the number of table entries. You log it with the vendor and they change the counter and all's fine again. (Just an example, as you asked, no relation to any events, real or imaginary)

This was unexpected, no amount of testing would have shown this.
surely the technical networking matters even on these new technologies are documented - can you provide links to tech sites?
Seriously doubt it. Vendors are reluctant to publish detailed technical info, claiming IP.
all of this, of course, does not change the fact that subscribers are being billed for services already marketed and sold, and continue to be billed, that have now suffered beyond what can be regarded as a reasonable disruption for a test, as a result of the deployment of these new technologies - and at what point do we reach the stage that Vodacom has to show some acknowledgement of that fact, either as an admission of an error of judgement (this is ultimately a business decision that was made) as to the market readiness, or of strategy: placing the stability of what we have at risk over the potential gains from the deployment

as stated previously there are certain market pressures that might lead a big player in the ZA cell arena to take those risks at this time (Sept industry changes), but in the absence of any statements from Voda this cannot be discerned with certainty from the outside, and even this forum has been vocal, saying that the openness by the company that you so emphatically proclaim has been found wanting
Well, it seems the more I do make public statements, the more you ignore them and repeat the question. :) I believe you'll keep on asking until the answer is in line with your expectations of what it should be.

Sorry, but nothing sinister going on here...no knee-jerk to MNP, just a network that growing very rapidly.

The current problems are being caused by a combination of new technology rollout and a rapid expansion rate, causing scenarios that, although unexpected, gets dealt with ASAP. Every effort is made to do ensure a stable service.

Sounds like you're in IT and possibly in networking?

When last did you do a roll-out of a few thousand desktops, or a thousand routers or a new app across those desktops and it all went in on day-one and ran without a hiccup from day-one?

It's the nature of the beast.
 

lilDeath

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vodacom3g said:
When last did you do a roll-out of a few thousand desktops, or a thousand routers or a new app across those desktops and it all went in on day-one and ran without a hiccup from day-one?
With proper planning and determining the mitigating risks and factors, it should be pretty darn mostly hiccup-less
 

TowerGuru

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um just a lil comment... maybe [Vodacom] could have sorted the hiccups up before [Vodacom] started charging for it? i mean you wont buy a car that has faulty seatbelts would you? you would give it back and say fix it then i will buy it? just a thought.
 
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Wynsam

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GayTechie said:
um just a lil comment... maybe [Vodacom] could have sorted the hiccups up before [Vodacom] started charging for it? i mean you wont buy a car that has faulty seatbelts would you? you would give it back and say fix it then i will buy it? just a thought.


Actually Toyota have just had a recall on airbags announced today. Stuff happens dude. They are fixing it for free though. lets hope that Vodacom are also fixing it real fast. From the comments preceding it seems they are pulling all the stops. Maybe not though, considering they now are locking people to their network.
 

Tallies

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Unexpected problems

Have been having the same problems in Pretoria, since the weekend. I hope Vodacom gets this resolved before I lose another 200+ Mb by not being able to maintain a stable connection.

On the other hand:
vodacom3g said:
Say you build a router network, you keep on adding routers and they happily chat to each other and sort their routing tables out. Everyone works. Then you add the nth+1 router and it all goes wonky. After investigation you find a table or counter or something that could not scale to the number of table entries.

Using this example - Ripping the offending nth+1 router out of the network does not instantly fix the problem, sometimes it takes hours or even days to fix a problem that took 10 minutes to make itself known!

On another line: Why can't Vodacom give rollover data (even if just for a day or three - then I wouldn't have to hit EXACTLY 500Mb on the last day of the month!)
 
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apples with apples ...

vodacom3g said:
...a roll-out of a few thousand desktops, or a thousand routers or a new app across those desktops...

sorry, not clear on the analogy:

this mail is not specifically aimed at v3g, but is directed to anyone who can give input to the question

to me this response describes a dimension relating to the scale of things, rather than a model by which i can understand what you are saying

for "desktops" read "handsets" right? if that is true, then i do not understand the "roll-out" of an application across handsets

is not the structure/process something akin to:
  • access: authentication / log-on to Voda network
  • routing: the switching according to geography (access point receivers/towers, etc), transfer to Voda data server and routing to remote, ie outside the Voda-network servers (host)
  • connecting and authenticating on those servers
  • host-client transfers: maintaining the link between the client (handset/datacard) and the host (server) via Voda network while the transfers happen

as i understand this the Voda server is the pass-through to the host; technically a more sophisticated "router"; so on what Voda servers was this application deployed, surely that must be the data servers or the routers? so either this would be a server farm of a quite limited number of machines, or the routers, which would be well, shall we say a challange...

if its servers, conceptually i come up against a volume / capacity issue as i cannot see how it can be a partial failure, the software upgrade will either work, or it won't & fallback should be manageable and executable within a relatively short period of time

however if it is on routers that software flush will be more tricky, but then one should be able to deploy in a limited way (could this explain the slowness?)

neither picture fits the facts satisfactorily ; can someone assist in correcting the picture?
 
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