Question regarding Islam

[joy_Energiser]

Ok, so wearing that veil is not compulsory or even a law anywhere ?They are not forced to wear it at any point? Is this true all over the world, or are there places where they are forced to wear it?

Also the fact that when I die, and I go to heaven, I will be promised 70 virgins.
I will also be re-united with my wife from this earthly world.
But, how will the logistics work here ? Can someone enlighten me ?

I've always wondered if that "virgins in heaven" story was true. if so how does that work exactly.would you guys care to elaborate?

I think one of the greatest obstacles in our time is misinformation, people simply have the wrong idea about other cultures and religions.
On the other hand, religion has been infamous for purposefully misleading people(any religion, example- the crusades.The church waged a holy war and butchered millions "in the name of god",which is Despicable.I refuse to believe that any kind of god which has an ounce of benovolence would ask his/her followers to do that.Therefore we come to the conclusion that religion was twisted by wicked men, posing as servants of god.)
I know that getting the truth out of a religious zealot, is like trying the get blood from a stone.People are so blinded by their faith, logic simply gets Overridden.

Not implying that you guys are religious zealots, but its hard for religious people to be objective when reviewing their own religion without getting defensive.

 

[Albereth]

I thought Shakira law was actually instated as an actual legal system. Does this not happen? Are you saying that isn't the purpose of Shakira law?

Shakira law is the ability to shake some impressively large hips in time to crappy music.

 

[anees]

For this reason: every mosque I've been to, has notices saying that no one is allowed to address the congregation without the express permission of the imaam or the mosque body corporate.

So, there you go..censorship notices even before you step in to pray.

Not implying that you guys are religious zealots, but its hard for religious people to be objective when reviewing their own religion without getting defensive.

 

[wise_guy]

@joy-energiser.As far as I know only Somalia and Taliban controlled Afghanistan force women to wear the hijab.
I doubt you will be re-united with your wife in heaven.How is she going to compete against 70 virgins.
The Quran talks about 'purified mates'or companions rather than virgins.Hence there is no carnal pleasure with these women in the afterlife.The 'ecstacy'will come from just being in this sacred place.
Women on the other hand are promised 'anything they desire' in heaven but again no nooky.

 

[anees]

Boy , this reminds me of Henry Ford's quote: You can have any colour, as long as its black" :twisted:

You doubt ?? How do you know that there will be no carnal pleasure ? No one has died, gone to heaven, hooked up with a purified mate, and come back to report on it.

All we know is that during the spread of Islam, verses were revealed in relation to a particular event.
Do we need to literally follow this ? No, but rather learn the lesson and move forward.

@joy-energiser.As far as I know only Somalia and Taliban controlled Afghanistan force women to wear the hijab.
I doubt you will be re-united with your wife in heaven.How is she going to compete against 70 virgins.
The Quran talks about 'purified mates'or companions rather than virgins.Hence there is no carnal pleasure with these women in the afterlife.The 'ecstacy'will come from just being in this sacred place.
Women on the other hand are promised 'anything they desire' in heaven but again no nooky.

 

[Mineer]

@SiriS
In regarding accrual in a out of community of property union,
Yes accrual would happen if there is sufficient evidence that the woman took part in growing said business, there should be some record stating this, the woman would be entitled to exactly what she put in, if she helped start the business with say 50% start up capital then she is owns 50% of said business and can either choose to sell her share or retain it even after divorce, if how ever she only contributed as a part time secretary a compensation equal to work done is in order.
Further more if she did not contribute to the business and stay home looking after the kids then she has no part in said business.

In anticipation that you will then ask would the husband had the ability to grow said business had he spent his time looking after the kids, or that woman was limited to procuring an income for her self because of looking after the kids. where is the fairness in this ?

The answer is ,Islamicaly the looking after kids is the sole responsibility of the father. He must see to his children needs, of being clothed, fed and educated. The woman has no responsibility in this regard. Further the woman can elect to be compensated, for work done rearing the children, even up to breast feeding the child, the Muslim man should not take this for granted if the woman does not wish to breast feed the child or look after them, he can not force her, she may elect to be compensated for this labor monetary or otherwise what ever seems just to the woman.

She can obviously do this as charity service if she so wills. Charity can only really be compensated by God, So its up to the woman to decided how she would like to be compensated and with that she should feel it is fair to her. I can understand our atheist forumites may not fully appreciate this concept, but just for a moment imagine there is a God and he would compensate you for good deeds, this is the belief of the woman in case, or in other words put your self in her shoes just for a moment

Summary
Accrual is a possibly for the Muslim divorced woman but she would need to provide evidence of her contribution, looking after kids may prove to some extent requiring accrual but the ideal situation is the woman should be credited for work done during the marriage not after divorce. I don't see a problem of her claiming payment for looking after the kids after divorce but this would have to be scrutinized, very carefully it may be difficult reach a fair compensation at that point :erm: depending on circumstances. .... or maybe not

 

[wise_guy]

@anees.With regard to the verses that discuss purified mates what lessons have you personally learnt?
For me personally the prohibition of intercourse during critical times of faith(ihram,fasting etc) is reason enough to believe that it is not something that one would do in a 'purified' state.

 

[Frankie]

@porchrat.Sharia law encompasses both state and personal law.Personal law is a guideline as to how you should conduct yourself as a muslim.
@joy.It is wrong to force people to wear the full hijab because a)Its not even compulsory and b)the prophet said let there be no compultion in religion which means that no one should be forced to do anything they don't want to do.Therfore wearing of a veil is based on culture not religion.

I don't think that it's as you say in practice.

So a devout Muslim can eat bacon ?

What's the "law" on apostasy ?

 

[Mineer]

Sorry about earlier, I did get a little heated.

Your point about contracts and Vodacom, thats exactly my point, you see those contracts are designed to benefit the cell phone provider in EVERY WAY, if you don't agree with the terms and conditions, then your shlt out of luck.They will not change those terms and conditions for you...

Well the Vodacom contract maybe in Vodacom's favor but I agree'ed to it, was not intimidated in to signing, I agreed by my own free will there is no fault on vodacom side. I could have elected a other cell phone provider or all together just gone pre-paid. or just left the whole cellphone thing completely, I got no-one but myself to blame. and yes the did change the conditions slightly for to make it more palletable to me I ask them to set a limit

and that brings me to my point about Muslim women and contracts,now granted I don't know much about Muslim marriage arrangements and contracts, but I have a feeling that the women is usually never in the position to negotiate the contract terms and conditions, just like we will get laughed at if we challenge the cell phone providers terms and conditions before entering a contract.

Well you said it you don't know much about Muslim marriage arrangements but I am trying to give you an some indication , but really not knowing the religion, said persons claims to believe in who's fault is that ? further you can change the defaulted terms and conditions, with out fear of being laugh at or ridiculed, if the woman does get this treatment she will have to ask her self is this the marriage she wants to get in (not saying this right) but just think about it, say she knows she has the right to change the default conditions and the guy she wants to marry laughs at her for her ability think . just think it through, you marry for reasons of love you don't marry a "known" enemy. I say known in " " cos unfortunately some ppl misrepresent them self's and turn out to be their partners worst enemy, sad situation, I am hoping this sad situation is the exception not the norm.

Now be honest,(because honestly I don't know much about it myself) its probably true that muslim women are shunned if they try to change those marriage contract conditions aren't they ?

Nope they are not shunned, if a guy wants a stupid girl to marry he will look for a stupid girl to take advantage(Not condoning this, I mean can this be called love, you know the kind of caring loving) . The girls who know their rights this type of "man" tries to avoid, but a genuine guy would give her rights even if she did not know about them.

Are even worse, A high percentage just dont "read the fine print".

is that thumb sucking or fact if its fact even if you have the proof who is to blame for not reading the fine print

Either way, the fact that the contract is by DEFAULT set up in such a way as to benefit the male, just shows the biased situation that currently exists.

Further a woman must have the approval of her father to marry someone, now before I continue I want to point out to you Muslim fathers do not hate their children, I know you have watch countless movies that portray Muslim men like this, Please give me this understanding, You see the typical Muslim father should have the best interest of his children at heart, with this sort of typical type father it makes sense that if the woman requires her fathers approval for marriage, he would go through the contract with her and look for parts that would give his child a tremendous back footing or negatively affect her, she then also enjoys this form of protection going into marriage, the father should also help his child look for a good partner, if he feels the guy she brings home has an hidden agenda he should voice his concerns for her, pls keep in that the typical father should want the best for his child, yes u get bad fathers but that should be the exception not the norm, besides if the woman can prove to a shiek that her father is not of good nature, maybe he is a drug addict she wont need his approval again this is the exception not the norm

Only a small percentage of Muslim women actually have the intelligence or courage to get that contract into a benificial situation.

I know you apologized for this statement earlier,
but I leave you with this

Prophet Muhammad sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam said: “Seeking knowledge is obligatory
upon every Muslim.(both male and female)” (Related by Ibn ‘Adiyy, Al-Bayhaqi and Al-Tabarani).

So just because something CAN be done about it, doesn't mean that its fair,because by default, it is not fair.Other wise the DEFAULT position of the contract would benefit both parties equally.I mean, this is simply logical.

How is it better to marry (in community of property) ? why is it bad to go back to what she had initially when she grew up under her fathers home, I have dealt with accrual in my previous post, and maintenance is the woman's right. why does she have own half of what the other person owns, when she had no part growing that wealth, if she had part thats a diff story again refer to my prev post, What are the negatives of an out of community of property union? can you list them,

How about you list all the negatives on out of community of property union
keep this in mind while typing out that list , in Islam it is the womans right to live under same or better conditions as she had when she lived under her father's roof , meaning if she lived having a helper pick up after it is her right to ask her husband to up keep this standard,

Also what if the woman is the wealthy one in this marriage and male struggles financially, do you think its fair for the man to take half of her wealth

 

[porchrat]

@porchrat.Sharia law encompasses both state and personal law.Personal law is a guideline as to how you should conduct yourself as a muslim

Well I am very glad to hear that. Could you please tell those dudes stoning people to death based on Shakira law to stop because people don't have to follow Shakira law?

 

[Fudzy]

Why do you feel that is the responsibility of sensible Muslims to do this? If you were Catholic would you make the effort of going to the Pope to tell him he is making a bad decision in protecting child molesting priests?

 

[porchrat]

Why do you feel that is the responsibility of sensible Muslims to do this? If you were Catholic would you make the effort of going to the Pope to tell him he is making a bad decision in protecting child molesting priests?

Yes. I would most definitely be letting him know of my disapproval of his activities. I can say this with certainty because for the majority of my life I was a Catholic.

As a Catholic I would feel it was my duty.

 

[Fudzy]

And now? Why aren't you anymore?

 

[porchrat]

And now? Why aren't you anymore?

A multitude of reasons. None of which are relevant to this thread.

Like I said. Yes as a Catholic I would consider it my duty to express my outrage at the way the whole paedophilia thing was handled. Similarly I would expect other Muslims to express their outrage at the way Sharia law is being used to stone people to death in other countries. As BOYAH himself said you shouldn't be compelled to follow a religion. Your prophet said that. It is therefore safe to assume that the way Sharia law is being applied in these countries is something you should be against. Assuming it is against Islam shouldn't you not only be displeased that these people are pretending to represent Islam but be actively condemning it?

If you don't condemn it I ask this: Why not?

 

[wise_guy]

@frankie.A straight A student will never willingly fail his exam unless forced to do so.The same applies to to pork.Even in other religions it is stricktly forbdidden and a devout muslim will nver touch it unless his life depended on it-Quraan 2:173.
2:256 clearly states you there is no forcing of religions on anyone.If you choose to leave Islam so be it,however depending on the country,if you openly reject the practise Islam that is tantamount to a charge of treason and hate speech which could see you in the courts.

 

[anees]

you miss the point....what I'm saying is that no one has died, gone to heaven, met these purified virgins and come back to report on it.

Your personal view on this matter is based on earthly experiences.

@anees.With regard to the verses that discuss purified mates what lessons have you personally learnt?
For me personally the prohibition of intercourse during critical times of faith(ihram,fasting etc) is reason enough to believe that it is not something that one would do in a 'purified' state.

 

[wise_guy]

@anees.Of course not its just my personal view.If anything my view is actually the opposite of my earthly experiences.

 

[Frankie]

Fudzy,
I suggest that you ask your questions about Islam to web sites such as the one below, and they will be answered by devout Muslim clerics, and will give you a true insight into what it's about.

These threads do wonders for exposing what Islam is really about.

http://www.shariahprogram.ca/islam-qa-women/women-cutting-hair.shtml
QUESTION: What is the ruling regarding cutting the hair for women? If it is allowed, then how short can she cut it?

ANSWER:

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful

In general, the major classical Hanafi Fiqh books prohibit the cutting of hair for women. This is also affirmed by many Indian Subcontinent scholars. However, some scholars of the Arab world have permitted it conditionally.

In a Hadith, “the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) forbade women from shaving their hair.” (Sunan Tirmidhi, 2/246 & Sunan Nasa’i, 5/407)

Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) mentions in his famous book in Hanafi Fiqh:

“If a woman cuts her hair, she will be sinful and cursed. In al-Bazzaziyya it is added: “Even with the permission of the husband, as there is no obedience to the creation in disobeying the Creator.” (See: Radd al-Muhtar with the Durr of al-Haskafi, kitab al-hazr wal-ibaha, 5/261)

The main two reasons given by scholars for the impermissibility of women cutting their hair are:

a) Imitation of the Kuffar (non-Muslims),

b) Imitation of men,

Both of which have been clearly prohibited in Shariah.

In the Hadith recorded by Imam Abu Dawud in his ‘Sunan’ and others, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Whosoever imitates a group is amongst them.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 4031)

Regarding the imitation of men, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) cursed those men who imitate women and those women who imitate men.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, 7/205)

For the above two reasons, the jurists (fuqaha) have generally prohibited the cutting of hair for women. It is for the reason of imitating men; they considered such women to be cursed, as in the Hadith women who imitate men are cursed by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace)

In view of the above, it would generally not be permitted for women to cut their hair. To imitate the styles of the Kuffar and non-Muslim women is not permissible. The hair cuts prevalent among many modern women have a clear resemblance with the styles of non-Muslim women, thus it will be unlawful.

Similarly, to shorten the hair in a way that it resembles the hair of men is also prohibited. If a woman does so, she will earn the curse of the blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace)

However, if a woman trims her hair slightly in a way that she did not contravene any of the above two reasons, then this would be (and Allah knows best) permitted. In other words, there are two conditions for this permissibility, and they both should be understood properly, and not misused or taken out of context:

1) There should be no imitation of non-Muslim Women,

The hairstyles adopted by kuffar and non-Muslim women, such as flicks, perms, fringes, etc… will not be allowed. Cutting the hair from the front will also be impermissible.

2) There should be no imitation of men

Cutting the hair in any way that resembles the hair of men is unlawful (haram), as mentioned previously. Therefore, if a woman cuts her hair from the lower end slightly in order to equate the level of the hairs, then this will be permissible.

It should be noted that, if the hair is cut, then it should be well below the shoulders, and this permissibility is only to cut it slightly. If the woman is married, then this should be done with the consent of her husband.

Finally, it should be remembered that it is better for a woman to not cut her hair altogether, unless there is some genuine reason. In the early times, a woman’s beauty was considered in the length of her hair, and not in looking like a man.

In conclusion, generally it is not permissible for a woman to cut her hair. However, if the hair is cut in the manner outlined above, it would be permissible, although better to avoid.

And Allah knows best

(Mufti) Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK


[Source: Darul Iftaa]

 

[TonyHawk]

My Christian ex has muslims in here family... the one sweet muslim daughter cuts her hair, her mothers and her brother's hair ... heck.. she even does it for a living
Is she not breaking the law.. ? Guess she's too westernized.. in the Western Cape

 

[Fudzy]

My Christian ex has muslims in here family... the one sweet muslim daughter cuts her hair, her mothers and her brother's hair ... heck.. she even does it for a living
Is she not breaking the law.. ? Guess she's too westernized.. in the Western Cape

Lol. I'd love to know why Frankie has such an agenda that even after several threads he still paints all Muslims with the same brush.