R861m Gautrain bill

Verde said:
No, it is 0.5% 60000 goes into 12000000 200 times, so it is half of one percent of 12000000.
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Ah wait, gotta x100 to get percentage... so yes it's 0.5%...

Expanding on this pitbull says it's ok to spend 22% of the budget on 0.5% of the people because the budget should be expanded as not enough is being invested in infrastructure. So to make the gautrain match users to % of budget the transport budget needs to be 44 times larger or R2 900 000 000 000 thats R2.9 TRILLION
 
It does not matter how you lot want to argue the facts.

It COSTS to build infrastructure. It COSTS to maintain infrastructure.
The more expensive the infrastructure is, the longer the pay back period has to be to make it affordable.

The fact is the service IS hugely useful and I use the Gautrain whenever I have to travel to places served by a Gautrain bus route and a station. It ALWAYS works out to be the better option for me on a personal level, when compared to the alternative, which would be to use the longest parking garage in the country.

It is NOT suitable when travelling to places beyond its designated service area. THEN the parking garage unfortunately wins, even when taking into account the monetary value of the time spent in the parking garage. It is a great relaxing trip, efficiently run and is an absolute pleasure to use.

Those of you that want to analyse these things, have a look at the analyses done for just about every underground rail system in the World, and when you have completed that analysis, and compared the results with the Gautrain, THEN come back and tell us if the Gautrain project is better or worse. That IS the ONLY analysis that is worth debating.

What needs to be done is to improve the inter-action between bus systems operating in Gauteng, so that other bus systems can also provide feeder services for Gautrain. The next thing is to provide for trains on a 24-hour basis (less frequently for sure, but not NO trains), not cut off after about 20:00 at night.

IF it was possible I should be able to get onto a bus at a bus-stop, 3 minutes from my home, change over to a Gautrain bus where the routes cross, and I WILL not then use anything else.
Here IS a valid complaint we should be taking to our council representatives --- more work is required to properly integrate the existing transport systems in Gauteng to get optimal use of all of them.
 
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daniellgr said:
It does not matter how you lot want to argue the facts.

It COSTS to build infrastructure. It COSTS to maintain infrastructure.
The more expensive the infrastructure is, the longer the pay back period has to be to make it affordable.

The fact is the service IS hugely useful and I use the Gautrain whenever I have to travel to places served by a Gautrain bus route and a station. It ALWAYS works out to be the better option for me on a personal level, when compared to the alternative, which would be to use the longest parking garage in the country.

It is NOT suitable when travelling to places beyond its designated service area. THEN the parking garage unfortunately wins, even when taking into account the monetary value of the time spent in the parking garage. It is a great relaxing trip, efficiently run and is an absolute pleasure to use.

Those of you that want to analyse these things, have a look at the analyses done for just about every underground rail system in the World, and when you have completed that analysis, and compared the results with the Gautrain, THEN come back and tell us if the Gautrain project is better or worse. That IS the ONLY analysis that is worth debating.

What needs to be done is to improve the inter-action between bus systems operating in Gauteng, so that other bus systems can also provide feeder services for Gautrain. The next thing is to provide for trains on a 24-hour basis (less frequently for sure, but not NO trains), not cut off after about 20:00 at night.

IF it was possible I should be able to get onto a bus at a bus-stop, 3 minutes from my home, change over to a Gautrain bus where the routes cross, and I WILL not then use anything else.
Here IS a valid complaint we should be taking to our council representatives --- more work is required to properly integrate the existing transport systems in Gauteng to get optimal use of all of them.
Click to expand...

No one is saying that the Gautrain isn't brilliant for the people that can use it because it just is and I personally use it fairly regularly. What we are saying is that 22% of Gauteng's entire transport budget is going into something that services 0.5% of the population... That's insanity, the money should rather have gone into upgrading Metrorail.

As for your "compare to other underground systems" that's just laughable, no other city in the world has separate trains for poor people and rich people, let's face it that's what the Gautrain is...
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
As for your "compare to other underground systems" that's just laughable, no other city in the world has separate trains for poor people and rich people, let's face it that's what the Gautrain is...
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No it isn't, It would seem you choose to use the service only in peak hours -------

So this particular view you have is a perception and not based in fact.
 
daniellgr said:
No it isn't, It would seem you choose to use the service only in peak hours -------

So this particular view you have is a perception and not based in fact.
Click to expand...

You ever been on an international subway? I'm guessing not because it doesn't look like the Gautrain and certainly doesn't cost as much as the Gautrain...

But lets compare Pretoria to Hatfield, the lines run next to each other after all, On Metrorail between R6.50 and R10, on Gautrain between R18 and R26... One for rich, one for poor...
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
As for your "compare to other underground systems" that's just laughable, no other city in the world has separate trains for poor people and rich people, let's face it that's what the Gautrain is...
Click to expand...

They have planned extensions to Mamelodi and further South of JHB.
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
You ever been on an international subway? I'm guessing not because it doesn't look like the Gautrain and certainly doesn't cost as much as the Gautrain...

But lets compare Pretoria to Hatfield, the lines run next to each other after all, On Metrorail between R6.50 and R10, on Gautrain between R18 and R26... One for rich, one for poor...
Click to expand...


The only ones I have not travelled are those in China.

And pray tell me how you would get to Sandton from the nearest Metro rail system station? Compare the costs for a trip, one using the Metro rail system, other bus services ; and the Gautrain and its bus services, and then come back and we can debate numbers.
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
Where there are Metrorail lines running already, the X billion they'll be pumping into building new everything will be much better served upgrading Metrorail...
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PRASA has been upgrading their stuff too, they've bought new trains, redone their signalling systems in Durban and CT too (not sure about Gauteng stuff yet).
 
daniellgr said:
The only ones I have not travelled are those in China.

And pray tell me how you would get to Sandton from the nearest Metro rail system station? Compare the costs for a trip, one using the Metro rail system, other bus services ; and the Gautrain and its bus services, and then come back and we can debate numbers.
Click to expand...

So instead of extending a line into Sandton they built an entire new train network... Come now, comparing the current Metrorail system to the Gautrain is dodging the point. You have to compare what Metrorail would've looked like with the billions spent on the Gautrain directed to it.
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
So instead of extending a line into Sandton they built an entire new train network... Come now, comparing the current Metrorail system to the Gautrain is dodging the point. You have to compare what Metrorail would've looked like with the billions spent on the Gautrain directed to it.
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I did not make the comparison, ---- you did ...

And, IF you take an integrated view of the system, THEN you will see that the Gautrain system IS an extension of the existing rail network in Gauteng, except for some portions which run parallel to the existing lines ---
 
ScottulusMaximus said:
So instead of extending a line into Sandton they built an entire new train network... Come now, comparing the current Metrorail system to the Gautrain is dodging the point. You have to compare what Metrorail would've looked like with the billions spent on the Gautrain directed to it.
Click to expand...

huh?

The size of the upgrades and extensions needed to just even make it viable as an alternative to the Gautrain would be more costly. Since this was to be a pin point accurate mode of transport they would have needed to do a massive overhaul of the whole Metrorail system, management and infrastructure. You can't be serious :confused:
 
Method said:
I don't think so. It was a needed service, it just doesn't cater to enough people or to the right places.
Click to expand...

+1

Would be great if they could expand the link to more areas. But since people are complaining about the money being spent on it now as is. I suppose this will never happen...
 
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