Rape victim gets 200 lashes

[Syndyre]

Supposedly she was in the US or EU and robbed a bank and was subsequently raped. Do you think they would have reprieved her from
bank robbery because of a gang rape? Two crimes were commited and while
I disagree with the punishment towards the woman, these are Saudi laws based on their religious principles, she's a Saudi National and had full knowledge of these laws and POSSIBLY she may not have been raped had she not broken the relevant religious law.

Whether she was raped or not I think the law is wrong. Her sentence almost seems worse than those of the rapist's which is even more disturbing.

 

[PeterCH]

Apologies, I viewed the full stop as a comma.


Lets hope so, they are a oil hub, a booming tourist destination, many billions invested in new, purchased developments, for sale to foreigners, they are running out of oil and tourism and foreign investment is their only hope.

It's sinful for Muslims to invest money yet Muslim governments seem to invest it anyhow. Can any Muslim person or anyone in the know comment on this?

 

[Syndyre]

It's sinful for Muslims to invest money yet Muslim governments seem to invest it anyhow. Can any Muslim person or anyone in the know comment on this?

I thought it was only sinful to charge interest? Don't know too much about it though.

 

[PeterCH]

Whether she was raped or not I think the law is wrong. Her sentence almost seems worse than those of the rapist's which is even more disturbing.

Its the law over there. She had full knowledge of this law and by remaining in Saudi Arabia and not emigrating she chose to follow this law. The Saudi's are happy with their laws. We in the west may find this law upsetting but
like I said, two crimes were comitted and had comitted a crime in the West she would have been punished for it notwithstanding the rape. Also as I pointed out, Saudi laws are very against women and men mixing, maybe if
she followed the letter of her law she would not have been raped in the first place. Its their culture and their religion and they choose to follow it,
I find it strange but they are free to follow their own laws. For them our laws are strange, for instance 7 years of prison for murderers in SA.

 

[PeterCH]

I thought it was only sinful to charge interest? Don't know too much about it though.

Well the aim of investments is to generate interest, isn't it? Or are these
ME owned corporations not making any profit?

 

[Syndyre]

Its the law over there. She had full knowledge of this law and by remaining in Saudi Arabia and not emigrating she chose to follow this law. The Saudi's are happy with their laws. We in the west may find this law upsetting but
like I said, two crimes were comitted and had comitted a crime in the West she would have been punished for it notwithstanding the rape. Also as I pointed out, Saudi laws are very against women and men mixing, maybe if
she followed the letter of her law she would not have been raped in the first place. Its their culture and their religion and they choose to follow it,
I find it strange but they are free to follow their own laws.

Are they happy with them? I'm not saying they're not but its not exactly a democracy so they don't get much choice in the matter. The laws are imposed on them. Yes it is the law and they may be following the law but that doesn't make it just. The issue isn't so much the 2 crimes but more the fact that the one is a crime.

IMO their are some things that can't be justified by religion/culture, even if that makes me a Western cultural imperialist.

 

[Syndyre]

Well the aim of investments is to generate interest, isn't it? Or are these
ME owned corporations not making any profit?

I meant specifically in terms of loans, like this:

Islamic economic institutions, not just the Islamic bank but all those connected with Islamic banking operates on the basis of "zero interest." Critics of Islamic economics argue, however, that the fundamental characteristic of charging interest (i.e. charging a premium, on the principal amount of a loan, for the time value of the loaned money) is not truly eliminated in Islamic banking, but rather the interest is merely hidden and relabeled.

For example, consider the practical reality of purchasing a vehicle from an Islamic bank under an allegedly "zero interest" loan. The procedure, generally, is that the client tells the Islamic bank which vehicle he or she would like to own. The Islamic bank then purchases that vehicle in its name, and sells it to the client at a marked-up price, under an agreement that the new marked-up price of the vehicle must be paid in a certain number of installments of a certain time period. Thus a $20,000 car might cost $35,000 if purchased from an Islamic bank at "zero interest," 5 year loan. Of course, the bank charges the extra $15,000 on top of the $20,000 cost of the car because money has a time value (that is to say, a payment of $20,000 5 years from now is worth less than a payment of $20,000 today)..

 

[Alan]

IMO their are some things that can't be justified by religion/culture, even if that makes me a Western cultural imperialist.

Who are you judge *spit*

 

[PeterCH]

Are they happy with them? I'm not saying they're not but its not exactly a democracy so they don't get much choice in the matter. The laws are imposed on them. Yes it is the law and they may be following the law but that doesn't make it just. The issue isn't so much the 2 crimes but more the fact that the one is a crime.

IMO their are some things that can't be justified by religion/culture, even if that makes me a Western cultural imperialist.

Even a democracy is rule by the majority and extenuating circumstances
may exist in every case yet we punish or aim to punish most criminals.

Saudi laws are based on their religion and since most Saudis stay happily at home,despite being able to travel abroad and seek assylum, I would assume that most of these people are happy with the status quo. It's not like Khmer Rouge's Kampuchea or Stalin's Russia where you couldn't leave and had to bear the inhuman laws.

 

[feo]

It's sinful for Muslims to invest money yet Muslim governments seem to invest it anyhow. Can any Muslim person or anyone in the know comment on this?

Nope, Muslims are not allowed ro invest in interest bearing financial instruments but yeah, most do it anyway. Muslim banks don't call the growth "interest" per se, but yeah I'm not totally qualified to tell you how it works so I'll stop there.

EDIT. Syndyre is too fast.

 

[Syndyre]

Even a democracy is rule by the majority and extenuating circumstances
may exist in every case yet we punish or aim to punish most criminals.

Saudi laws are based on their religion and since most Saudis stay happily at home,despite being able to travel abroad and seek assylum, I would assume that most of these people are happy with the status quo. It's not like Khmer Rouge's Kampuchea or Stalin's Russia where you couldn't leave and had to bear the inhuman laws.

Democracy is definitely far from perfect, "tyranny of the majority" comes to mind. Most Saudi men may be happy with the laws but I'm not sure how many woman there are given the choice.

 

[Syndyre]

EDIT. Syndyre is too fast.

 

[PeterCH]

Democracy is definitely far from perfect, "tyranny of the majority" comes to mind. Most Saudi men may be happy with the laws but I'm not sure how many woman there are given the choice.

Mothers are respected in Saudi society. Secondly these Saudi men are raised by these 'unhappy' women. I'm also sure that the average Saudi man loves his mother, sister and wife. They're not any less human than you or me.

I agree with you on the physical punishment for the woman but I still
feel that it's their country and they seem to be satisfied with the way it is run.

 

[noxibox]

Some laws should be broken. Religious nutter laws in Muslim countries amongst them.

 

[PeterCH]

Democracy is definitely far from perfect, "tyranny of the majority" comes to mind. Most Saudi men may be happy with the laws but I'm not sure how many woman there are given the choice.

It seems that many ME countries which were opened up to democracy choose to elect fundamentalist governments. Maybe these people like
to live like this and maybe we should let them. However if they send
any terrorists into our own territories our governments should defend us.

 

[PeterCH]

Some laws should be broken. Religious nutter laws in Muslim countries amongst them.

It's THEIR law not YOURS and THEY want to keep a LAW which only exists within the boundaries of THEIR own country. Tolerance is a mark of civilisation, otherwise if
we listen to everyone and their dogs' opinion about what laws we should keep or remove, we'll end up in an anarchy.

 

[Syndyre]

Mothers are respected in Saudi society. Secondly these Saudi men are raised by these 'unhappy' women. I'm also sure that the average Saudi man loves his mother, sister and wife. They're not any less human than you or me.

I agree with you on the physical punishment for the woman but I still
feel that it's their country and they seem to be satisfied with the way it is run.

I just meant if an individual woman decided she didn't like it she wouldn't have the same freedom to emigrate that an individual man likely would.

It seems that many ME countries which were opened up to democracy choose to elect fundamentalist governments. Maybe these people like
to live like this and maybe we should let them. However if they send
any terrorists into our own territories our governments should defend us.

Yeah, still can't believe the Palestinians elected Hamas. In that case they can live however they want but then they also can't expect the rest of the world to bankroll it through massive aid donations.

 

[feo]

Some laws should be broken. Religious nutter laws in Muslim countries amongst them.

If you don't respect another country's law then that's your problem. It seems to work well, maybe SA needs a little dose of Shari law considering the state this country is in when in comes to rape.

 

[PeterCH]

I just meant if an individual woman decided she didn't like it she wouldn't have the same freedom to emigrate that an individual man likely would.



Yeah, still can't believe the Palestinians elected Hamas. In that case they can live however they want but then they also can't expect the rest of the world to bankroll it through massive aid donations.

Who do you think won the elections in Turkey? What about any elections in Pakistan? Which parties are the most popular in Egypt then?

As for the woman above, we don't know all the details. Still women can travel outside of Saudi Arabia although to leave SA they probably need to be with a male relative. Once they're in the west they can do what they want and could approach a foreign government mission for assylum.

 

[Syndyre]

Who do you think won the elections in Turkey? What about any elections in Pakistan? Which parties are the most popular in Egypt then?

I'm not arguing with you, was just saying the Palestinian case was probably one of the worst. I can't understand why they vote for those parties but then again I can't understand why people vote ANC either.