Rape victim gets 200 lashes

[JK8]

Clearly they don't. They having monsters like the woman who is the subject of the thread going around doing whatever it was that is about to get her 200 lashes.

Yet we having a 5 page debate on a single rape in the country...
Atleast her case went to court regardless of the outcome.

 

[feo]

What? Women don't go to heaven fool!

Now you're just trolling....fool.

 

[icyrus]

Well done.

Nobody is stopping you speaking your mind but whether you like/accept Shari law or not, the least you can do is not "bash" Islam.

Bash it? If this is what it preaches why should it be protected from criticism?

 

[GougedEye]

erm, i dont care about head scarfs, I am talking about beating a woman because she got gang raped. beeg difference.

I think we have basically the same opinion on this. Just whereas I don't think it's workable or practical to force change. I am by no means saying we shouldn't speak out against it, encourage change, and do everything we can to promote change. Just starting to fling bombs around isn't going to work. We are talking about fundamental change of attitude in hundreds of millions of people. The fact that many of the people you are trying to help will resist you to the death will just complicate things enourmously.

My solution (basic outline)? We need to stabalise the Middle East and provide a platform for prosperity. Means we have to sort out the CF in Iraq, the Israeli / Palastinian problem, Iran, etc. etc. We need to stop supporting dictators. We need to sop believing that anything we do in the persuit of oil is justified. It's a massive challenge, and it seems easier to just keep tossing bombs at people we don't like. But the bombs are not working.

 

[w1z4rd]

Forcing a woman to wear a scarf on her head is no more morally wrong than forcing a woman to wear a top on the beach.

However, this is more than about the right to wear or not wear an article of clothing. This is about a lady being bashed for what is clearly an unjust pshyco law.

 

[GougedEye]

Well done.

Nobody is stopping you speaking your mind but whether you like/accept Shari law or not, the least you can do is not "bash" Islam.

I'm not bashing islam. I'm bashing Sharia Law. I have to respect your right to having a particular religious belief. I don't have to respect that religious belief itself.

 

[GougedEye]

Heres an article about Muslim woman and scarves.

I fully respect the right of any woman. Muslim or not, to wear a headscarf. I alos believe they have a right not to wear a headscarf. You yourself say that you will force you wife to wear a headscarf. If she does not want to you will divorce her. You further say that she had better be a virgin or you will not marry her, yet you feel no requirement that you be a virgin.

What it all comes down to is choice. You want to deny women choice based on your interpretation of Islam, while retaining that choice for yourself.

 

[GougedEye]

Forcing a woman to wear a scarf on her head is no more morally wrong than forcing a woman to wear a top on the beach.

I'm also opposed to that.

 

[w1z4rd]

My solution (basic outline)? We need to stabalise the Middle East and provide a platform for prosperity.

Lets look at this. I agree that you need a platform of prosperity for stabilization but how do you go about doing this with little sheikdoms, only half the population has decent rights, or the ability to conduct business.

How do you propose taking control of the resources required to achieve that stabilization away from the ruling class and extremist religious nut class sponsored by the ruling class to stop ... who are sponsoring this religious conflict so people in the area dont ask start asking questions on democracy and equality.

The system is designed to keep creatures like JK8 fighting about silly things instead of concentrating on the real things.

I will be interested to see your response.

 

[GougedEye]

Originally Posted by GougedEye
What? Women don't go to heaven fool!

Now you're just trolling....fool.

No I was just being sarcastic. P.S. Islam does allow woman to go to heavan, just like men. Koran says something like "enter heavan ye and your wives". They don't get their own virgins though, so I guess they have to share their husbands?

 

[w1z4rd]

No I was just being sarcastic. P.S. Islam does allow woman to go to heavan, just like men. Koran says something like "enter heavan ye and your wives". They don't get their own virgins though, so I guess they have to share their husbands?

Lesbian orgies in heaven FTW!

 

[GougedEye]

Lets look at this. I agree that you need a platform of prosperity for stabilization but how do you go about doing this with little sheikdoms, only half the population has decent rights, or the ability to conduct business.

the little sheikdoms are doing quite well. UAE is basically a collection of little sheikdoms. I had a lot of dealing with Dubai a while back. Youd be amazed at the clothes some of those women where under the Bhurka. Latest designer labels etc. And I was informed that under those, they have the latest in Victoria's Secret. They are still relatively strict by our standards and not democracies, but they are moving in the right direction as their prosperity increases. In dubai, foreigners are allowed an alcohol allowance (which gets rapidly sold off to the locals). As these sheikdoms get more prosperous, their influence will extend. They also want a stable middle east.

I cannot over emphasise the need to sort out the Palastinian issue. And it's a thorny one. Unfortunately, the situation is a mess. The Palastinians think they have nothing left to lose which is pretty accurate. the Israel thinks that with the unconditional US support they currently have, they don't need to make any compromises. This needs to change, or the current situation will go on forever. Once they have sorted that problem out the entire region can benefit.

Now here is a controversial thought (even more so than the Israel one). We need to find a way to live with and encourage Iran. Iran is stable and a (sortof) democracy. They are on the ball as regards education etc. They are going in the right direction. Sure there is lots, wrong with them. They make me kindof antsy every time they mouth off about destroying Israel, but this is mostly just sabre rattling. Now History tells us that if Iran continues to prosper and grow, they will (a) become less radical as they get more to lose, and (b) become a stabalising force in the region. Saudi who is nominally our ally is far worse than Iran, yet we can live with them? Maybe because saudi never overan a certain countries embassy a couple of decades ago. Some people really know how to hold a grudge.

The system is designed to keep creatures like JK8 fighting about silly things instead of concentrating on the real things.

JK8 does not represent the majority of muslims in any way. Neither does Osama.

 

[Alan]

Don't read on. You're too sensitve and I might hurt you feelings.

We need to find a way to live with and encourage Iran. Iran is stable and a (sortof) democracy.

Ruled by a religious elite. Some democracy. Perhaps they're 'stable' because of the state religious police. They even have undercover police in schools

They are going in the right direction.

They make me kindof antsy every time they mouth off about destroying Israel, but this is mostly just sabre rattling.

Yeah the nazis did a lot of that too. No biggy

Now History tells us that if Iran continues to prosper and grow, they will (a) become less radical as they get more to lose, and (b) become a stabalising force in the region.

Yeah "growing' towards nukes. 'stabilize' the region through Hizbollah LOL

Saudi who is nominally our ally is far worse than Iran, yet we can live with them? Maybe because saudi never overan a certain countries embassy a couple of decades ago. Some people really know how to hold a grudge.

Iran commited the biggest terrorist attack against America other than 9/11 and are currently waging a war with America and Britain in Iraq . Saudi Arabia aren't attempting to get nuclear bombs.

JK8 does not represent the majority of muslims in any way. Neither does Osama.

WOW that is true

 

[w1z4rd]

the little sheikdoms are doing quite well. UAE is basically a collection of little sheikdoms. I had a lot of dealing with Dubai a while back. Youd be amazed at the clothes some of those women where under the Bhurka. Latest designer labels etc. And I was informed that under those, they have the latest in Victoria's Secret. They are still relatively strict by our standards and not democracies, but they are moving in the right direction as their prosperity increases. In dubai, foreigners are allowed an alcohol allowance (which gets rapidly sold off to the locals). As these sheikdoms get more prosperous, their influence will extend. They also want a stable middle east.

I cannot over emphasise the need to sort out the Palastinian issue. And it's a thorny one. Unfortunately, the situation is a mess. The Palastinians think they have nothing left to lose which is pretty accurate. the Israel thinks that with the unconditional US support they currently have, they don't need to make any compromises. This needs to change, or the current situation will go on forever. Once they have sorted that problem out the entire region can benefit.

Now here is a controversial thought (even more so than the Israel one). We need to find a way to live with and encourage Iran. Iran is stable and a (sortof) democracy. They are on the ball as regards education etc. They are going in the right direction. Sure there is lots, wrong with them. They make me kindof antsy every time they mouth off about destroying Israel, but this is mostly just sabre rattling. Now History tells us that if Iran continues to prosper and grow, they will (a) become less radical as they get more to lose, and (b) become a stabalising force in the region. Saudi who is nominally our ally is far worse than Iran, yet we can live with them? Maybe because saudi never overan a certain countries embassy a couple of decades ago. Some people really know how to hold a grudge.

Your opinion is very biased based and does not answer my question. Dont blame the americans for everything. The saudi royal family are just as much to blame as the Bush`s... hence the reason the families are old friends. If one side sponsors the weapons and has oil shares, the other side can sponsor the radical religious to make sure those weapon shares go up, and both families gain when the oil is in conflict.

JK8 does not represent the majority of muslims in any way. Neither does Osama.

Which islamic nations have equal rights for all its citizens across the board (other than those invaded by the US?) Im curious as to see how you came to your conclusion. Cause if most muslims were liberal, there would be an islamic country out there that has equal rights for ALL its citizens. Or am I missing the boat somewhere here?

 

[Vrotappel]

Saudi has a 0.00% crime rate. If you have ever been there you would know the people there are happy with their lives they are the most humble people you ever met (exept at the airport lol).

Obviously it has a zero percent crime rate. Women are to **** scared to speak out about the crimes committed (by their men) or against them because the consequences will be dire. You should pray to Allah for forgiveness otherwise there won't be any fresh virgins for you in heaven. Spit.

 

[noxibox]

Saudi has a 0.00% crime rate.

According to the Ninth United Nations survey of crime trends and operations of criminal justice systems Saudi Arabia's murder rate is just below the Netherlands and higher than Ireland, Luxembourg, Austria, Denmark, Norway and Greece. I must naturally assume that all those countries do implement Sharia law and have the death penalty (no I didn't bother to check, but it seems the logical conclusion).

 

[JK8]

I wonder if this chick is still in SA. Given the choice would she leave..?

 

[RamblingMan]

Going back to PeterCH's earlier posts about the fact that Saudi people are happy with their laws. I think you also need to take into consideration that they probably don't know much better. They are brought up with the idea that woman are inferior and most woman believe it because that's what they are taught. If they were brought up without the brainwashing, I'm sure they WOULD NOT be happy with the laws and would probably try escape.

 

[noxibox]

Going back to PeterCH's earlier posts about the fact that Saudi people are happy with their laws. I think you also need to take into consideration that they probably don't know much better. They are brought up with the idea that woman are inferior and most woman believe it because that's what they are taught. If they were brought up without the brainwashing, I'm sure they WOULD NOT be happy with the laws and would probably try escape.

Exactly as in the west women were raised to think of themselves as weak and inferior. Back when I was still at school my girlfriend was discouraged from taking mathematics as a subject because "girls don't need mathematics" according to both her teachers and her father. Her mother just meekly agreed.

Look at the way women are portrayed in old movies, even as recently as the 80s, and look at them now.

Some people are raised to believe that authority figures are always right and should be obeyed automatically. It is quite insidious.

 

[noxibox]

It did with Nazi germany and nuked Japan.

Yes, but do the failures outnumber the successes? There is no clean way to do it. And those involved have to be focussed on their purpose. Money, power or political influence can easily be ulterior motives which undermine the goal.