Reflexology anyone?

[Necuno]

Let me guess, you read that bit of profundity in someone's post a few days ago on the matter of more resources being allocated to rhino poaching than our immediate societal problems, liked it, and felt that you could somehow abstractly squeeze it into this discussion?

Not quite.

But whatever, I guess this discussion wasn't headed into productive ground anyway.

Actually no. I think this called an assumption fail.

 

[Necuno]

Or lets not prick up the forum to the point where only you and a select group can decide what is wrong because you say so? Idiotic viewpoint.

Team atheist says no

 

[HapticSimian]

Team atheist says no

This has sweet f.a. to do with atheism. Don't you ever tire of your constant failed attempts at being cute?!

 

[Ockie]

Ockie's trip is not going to hurt any human or animal.

It perpetuates the existence of such conmen and their beliefs. It perpetuates superstitious delusions no different to the delusion that rhino horn increases virility. You cannot defend one without defending the other.

:erm:

Jeez....so now I am not allowed some pampering at a spa due to rhino poaching? - which I think is despicable btw.

Guess I should have just kept my excitement about my first ever professional pampering to myself.

 

[Lycanthrope]

This has sweet f.a. to do with atheism. Don't you ever tire of your constant failed attempts at being cute?!

Prophet's comprehension has never been terribly sharp. He also has never been able to articulate very well. But most irritating is probably his failed attempts at being relevant.

:erm:

Jeez....so now I am not allowed some pampering at a spa due to rhino poaching? - which I think is despicable btw.

As I said, it perpetuates the existence of conmen (you pay them; you create a market for them to thrive in) and superstitious beliefs (miracle cures, alternative "medicine", rhino horn, astrology, reiki, tokoloshe, etc).

Personally, I believe you can do whatever you want as long as it makes you happy and doesn't harm anyone. I just find it intolerable when people (not saying you) lend credence to madness.

It's that credence to madness that gives people their faith in miracle cures and in snake oil and this faith does incredible harm to innocent (and often ignorant) people. This is the bone I feel I need to pick at.

Guess I should have just kept my excitement about my first ever professional pampering to myself.

My skat, you are welcome to be excited and I don't want to put a downer on what you look forward to. You're a big boy and you can make your own decisions on how to feel about stuff like this. All I can do is share my feelings and my opinion on it.

I just don't want you getting hurt or falling prey to the delusional convictions of some nutjob who spent a week in "for'n parts." That he's apparently gay just makes me cringe even more at the desperate lengths our kind go to find a place and meaning in this world.

Maybe if good fortune permits I can treat you to a proper day out at a nice spa with mud baths, yoga, full-body massages, foot massages, a sauna and no crazy "spiritualist practices."

Dinner too

 

[Necuno]

Ag dankie oom Lycan.

 

[w1z4rd]

Idiotic ideas are there to be destroyed.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Sure and I'm all for that because debate can be frikkin awesome but the way it's degenerated over the last few months is comparable to the stupid extremists we have in our midst

 

[chrisc]

Neighbour's daughter (35) is a reflexologist and makes a good living out of it. She told me I had attractive feet for a man since I seldom wear shoes, but wanted to press some areas of my instep to cure what she perceived as some imbalance in my system that was causing me to heal slowly (I had quite a bad accident 20 months ago). Anyway, I visited the orthopaedic surgeon who is looking after my condition and on the third once a month visit to him after starting with the reflexologist, remarked that the tendons and ligaments that had been destroyed and had been implanted were now healing at a much faster rate than he anticipated and I could start a new regimen of physio the next week. I did not tell him I was seeing this reflexologist. At yesterday's visit after another MRI the Dr told me that there was no need for me to see him any more and that I could anticipate a 95% recovery within a further 4 months. I told him about the reflexologist and he said that while he did not agree with all the professed principals, he did agree that benefit can be had from a variety of sources and he had seen what he described as a twofold increase in recovery in 4 months, so continue to go see her. For the first time in 20 months I can walk across a room unaided, which the Dr had said would only be attainable by Feb or March next year.

So does it work? It seems to for me, so why not go on with it. The visits are quiet and painless and when she has done her bit, I fix her computer, email, her TV and other gadgets.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

No doubt you will be called a fool now chris4290 .........

 

[chrisc]

No doubt you will be called a fool now chris4290 .........

Maybe so, but I haven't had to pay anything yet, just lie on a couch for 20 mins at a time and I can even read a book

 

[HapticSimian]

No doubt you will be called a fool now chris4290 .........

Your passive-aggressive interjections are as annoying as Pr⊕phet's terribly sad attempts at playing devil's advocate.

Neighbour's daughter (35) is a reflexologist and makes a good living out of it.

...

So... Some regular foot massages might have aided in your feet healing a bit faster? Sure.

An issue arises, however, when these alternative 'treatments' are said to help for maladies when they 1) simply cannot, and 2) have been proven not to. In many instances the exhaustive studies have been done; we know homoeopathy, reflexology, acupuncture and a host of other wacky practices perform similarly to placebo in every metric you'd like to investigate. Combine the placebo effect with regression towards the mean and we also know why many are duped by alternative hooey.

The real problem stems from, as has been alluded, the air of legitimacy that such practices manage to maintain. Many, many people forego necessary treatment in favour of ineffective sugar pills and foot massages. How are you all OK with that? :wtf:

 

[porchrat]

So does it work? It seems to for me, so why not go on with it. The visits are quiet and painless and when she has done her bit, I fix her computer, email, her TV and other gadgets.

If you take a single event that could easily be explained away as coincidence and interpret that your anecdotal experience demonstrates that reflexology was indeed the reason for your healing and that that demonstrates that it works then you are beyond help.

 

[Necuno]

Your passive-aggressive interjections are as annoying as Pr⊕phet's terribly sad attempts at playing devil's advocate.

At least you managed the name right. [-]Besides why play the devil when you are the devil [/-] [-]Devil believer !?[/-]

Doctors... good for getting you to sluk that pill View attachment 30204

 

[Singal]

Sorry, I did not read the whole thing,and I can understand chrisc4290's recovery, since it were his legs that were damaged. What I'd like to know is, if you suffer from severe migraines,can reflexology cure it?

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Sorry, I did not read the whole thing,and I can understand chrisc4290's recovery, since it were his legs that were damaged. What I'd like to know is, if you suffer from severe migraines,can reflexology cure it?

I would say it's different for different people, I know two people in my life who have had migraines for decades and one went the homeopathic route and eventually found acupuncture to offer relief where 'western medicine' couldn't. The other person tried it once, it didn't do anything and they gave up. That person still has debilitating migraines.

 

[Pooky]

I say if it works for you, then great. Don't let other people tell you what's right or what's wrong. Try stuff for yourself and make up your own mind.

 

[Nanfeishen]

It never ceases to amaze how those who sprout off about "no scientific evidence" completely choose to ignore, or are otherwise ignorant, to all the evidence and all the medical documentation relating to "The physiological effects of Stress on the Body" and how stress affects and promotes ill health and disease in the body.

It is now considered a well-established fact that psychological stress can be a trigger or important factor in a variety of physical symptoms and diseases processes. There is abundant evidence of this link in the medical literaure as well as in current medical practices. For example:

Medical research suggests that up to 90 percent of all illness and disease is stress-related, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Evidence shows chronic stress can lower immunity and make people more susceptible to infections. Conversely, stress-reduction strategies, such as meditation, relaxation, and exercise, have been shown to help reverse this effect (by increasing the number of infection-fighting T cells and feel-good chemicals called endorphins in the body, for example) and prevent disease.
Stress has been shown to contribute to the development of heart disease and high blood pressure. As a result of those findings, most heart programs incorporate stress management and exercise, and stress reduction now plays a very prominent role in both the treatment and prevention of cardiovascular diseases.
Skin doctors have found that many skin conditions, such as hives and eczema, are related to stress.
Stress is thought to be a common cause of everyday aches, pains, and health problems, such as headaches, backaches, stomachaches, diarrhea, sleep loss, and loss of sex drive. Stress also appears to stimulate appetite and contribute to weight gain.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/human-biology/how-stress-works1.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_(biology)#Biological_mechanisms

Stress causes whole body deterioration

Stress, to put it bluntly, is bad for you. It can kill you, in fact. A study now reveals that stress causes deterioration in everything from your gums to your heart and can make you more susceptible to everything from the common cold to cancer.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/01/09/34154.aspx

Biologically the body doesnt differentiate between physical and psychological stress, people also differ in chemical makeup, stress coping and psychological makeup.
It is due to this that "scientific studies" on the effectiveness of things like Reiki, Reflexology, Acupuncture, Qigong , Yoga etc in the treatment of diseases and illness will always remain "inconclusive".
Any and all of the methods promote relaxation and reduce stress, thereby contributing either in a small way or in whole to curing or healing a patient.
Calling them all "hocus pocus" and dismissing them outright as "quackery" demonstrates nothing but ignorance.

 

[HapticSimian]

/snip

Your entire post is one massive strawman; of course stress can make one more susceptible to illness of almost any order, and worsen the effect of existing conditions. By all means, go for all the foot massages you want if you find them relaxing, as being less stressed aids healing. But don't call it 'reflexology' and point to a bunch of bollocks charts showing how your bladder's connected to your big toe, and think a foot massage is going to cure cancer.

As for the studies: in many instances they're not so much inconclusive as what they conclusively show that quackery hocus pocus doesn't actually do anything. When something cannot outperform a placebo it doesn't do anything, and to continue the charade that it might do something is dishonest and dangerous.

At least, again, your post is befitting of your signature.

 

[porchrat]

Sorry, I did not read the whole thing,and I can understand chrisc4290's recovery, since it were his legs that were damaged. What I'd like to know is, if you suffer from severe migraines,can reflexology cure it?

There is no documented evidence of some sort of link between your foot and your head.

Reflexology does not claim that it is a relaxing foot massage that helps calm you down and relax you. That claim I would have no problem with. Instead the claim is that areas on your feet correspond to areas of your body and that manipulation of those areas on your foot result in physical effects in the associated zone of your body. They also mention energy fields and unblocking your Qi among other zany stuff like curing cancer. Those are the controversial claims that reflexology makes and they have never been demonstrated to be anything but k@k.

Supporters of alternative healing will attempt to dance around that fact and instead talk about how relaxing it is but at the end of the day that isn't what reflexologists are claiming. Their actual claims (reflexology can cure cancer etc.) are about as well supported as those of astrologists predicting your future however they can be much much more dangerous.