SA freakin TAX

SoulTax said:
Welfare in SA was not implemented in the same conditions. The people one welfare have, for the most part, always had nothing. They have never had the education or the life experience to know more than mud and fetching water from 2 miles away. Now they are given money, for no apparent work or reason..
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Almost all people on grants in South Africa are too old to work, too young to work or disabled. A healthy black male for instance is not eligible for a grant. What on earth are you talking about? So the 90% of people on welfare that are too old to work, too young to work or too disabled to work. How exactly do you intend making them work? :wtf:

Im really not getting that you know what welfare is or how it works and whom the money is going to.
 
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How exactly do you intend making them work?
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ghoti said:
Yeah, well wikipedia can show you what you dont feel.

Well yeah... if you have more wants you gotta pay for them. However, needs come before wants. I also want the luxuries of private health care and private schooling. Do you also think other countries with high tax rates dont have those "off payslip" (laughed at that term) taxes?
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Everywhere has the extra "Optional" costs. But SA those costs are slightly less optional. If you live in a house or apartment in SA and do not have private security you are playing Russian roulette with your family's lives. Slightly less optional than in countries where burglar bars are unheard of, and the police come out to a handbag snatch and grab, or a stolen bicycle.

Using private schooling in this context is a misnomer on your part. In SA you pay for all schooling. It is not taken from your taxes. So not exactly a want there, more of a need.

We do not need anything in life other than to eat, sleep, drink and breathe. Everything else is a want of some kind. We do not need to pay taxes, but it is expected of us. So we expect a certain level of recompense and service in return. If you compare SA to any other country on Cent for Cent value for tax money handed over. It is one of the worst by far.
 
ghoti said:
Based on the amount of whine out there. The sense of entitlement is not just a poor person on welfare thing. And no, there was no social harmony and the cultures were fractured when they went welfare. No, most people on welfare were not in decent positions before welfare was introduced. Most were born into poverty. However, if you can give me a real life example of this fantastical pre welfare society you talk of... I wouldnt mind seeing it.




Yeah, well wikipedia can show you what you dont feel.


Well yeah... if you have more wants you gotta pay for them. However, needs come before wants. I also want the luxuries of private health care and private schooling. Do you also think other countries with high tax rates dont have those "off payslip" (laughed at that term) taxes?
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Omg you think public schooling here compares to public schooling in a first world country? What a joke.
 
Sinbad said:
Omg you think public schooling here compares to public schooling in a first world country? What a joke.
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No I dont. Not at all. Thats just you fighting your own logical fallacy. Unfortunately Apartheid ****ing up everything means we are 20-30 years behind many countries in development of our public education system. Luckily most of us whities got a good education before the end of Aparheid. Like you and I.
 
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ghoti said:
No I dont. Not at all. Thats just you fighting your own logical fallacy. Unfortunately Apartheid ****ing up everything means we are 20-30 years behind many countries in development of our public education system. Luckily most of us whities got a good education before the end of Aparheid. Like you and I.
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So therefore, a decent education for my kids is NOT a "nice to have", it's an additional tax. If you think it's a want, not a need, then I feel sorry for your kids.
 
Sinbad said:
So therefore, a decent education for my kids is NOT a "nice to have", it's an additional tax. If you think it's a want, not a need, then I feel sorry for your kids.
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Yeah, unfortunately your sense of entitlement is so great you cant see how lucky you are and how bad it is for everyone else.
 
ghoti said:
Almost all people on grants in South Africa are too old to work, too young to work or disabled. A healthy black male for instance is not eligible for a grant. What on earth are you talking about? So the 90% of people on welfare that are too old to work, too young to work or too disabled to work. How exactly do you intend making them work? :wtf:

Im really not getting that you know what welfare is or how it works and whom the money is going to.
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My mistake, I thought we were talking about the merits of a blanket welfare system being implemented in SA. As you quite obviously linked your argument to the welfare states of the 1st world. Where more than simply the old, young and disabled were supported.

So perhaps next time basing your argument on a like for like scenario would not mislead or add fake weight to your argument.
 
SoulTax said:
My mistake, I thought we were talking about the merits of a blanket welfare system being implemented in SA.
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Again, 90% of that blanket is people too old, too young or too disabled to work.


As you quite obviously linked your argument to the welfare states of the 1st world.
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South Africa is first world? Wow.

PS, most of those countries got to their first world statuses because of welfare ;)
 
ghoti said:
Yeah, unfortunately your sense of entitlement is so great you cant see how lucky you are and how bad it is for everyone else.
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HAH. You call working for your kids' future having a sense of entitlement? NOTHING has been handed to me on a plate. Your assumptions are offensive, as is your implication that people are NOT actually entitled to a quality education without paying for it....
 
Sinbad said:
HAH. You call working for your kids' future having a sense of entitlement? NOTHING has been handed to me on a plate. Your assumptions are offensive.
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Oh shame, you find the use of the word, "entitlement" offensive? Im sure a lot of those old people who worked their whole lives, paid their taxes and dues to society, and now have little to no support... find it offensive as well.
 
ghoti said:
Yeah, unfortunately your sense of entitlement is so great you cant see how lucky you are and how bad it is for everyone else.
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If you are forced to contribute to something on promise of certain recompense. Then you are in fact, entitled to expect those promises to come to fruition.
Me thinks you are misunderstanding the word entitlement here. If I pay into something I am entitled to complain if what I am entitled to is not delivered to the standard that was promised.

The "Sense of Entitlement" that people whine about is the False sense of entitlement. If I pay for security in my house. My neighbor is not now entitled to it because I have it. He has not contributed towards that security.

If you believe that having a sense of entitlement, for something that you are entitled to should be seen as a bad thing. Based on the fact that others have it worse off than you. Even though those others do not contribute towards anything that would entitle them to the same entitlements that you should be whining about. Well then, Life is gonna suck for your family, as you do not fight for their entitlements.
 
ghoti said:
Oh shame, you find the use of the word, "entitlement" offensive? Im sure a lot of those old people who worked their whole lives, paid their taxes and now have little to no support find it offensive as well.
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Yup. It's disgusting how old people aren't respected and looked after in this country. It's disgusting what a state public health care, public education, public transport and the police/justice system are in. If you think that wanting those to WORK for my money is a sense of entitlement, then ****ing right I have one of those. Do you happily pay for NON-government services you don't get? If not, why the hypocrisy?
And you're derailing the conversation quite nicely. Fact is, SA people pay a LOT of tax when you take into account the services we get in return.
 
Sinbad said:
Yup. It's disgusting how old people aren't respected and looked after in this country. It's disgusting what a state public health care, public education, public transport and the police/justice system are in. If you think that wanting those to WORK for my money is a sense of entitlement, then ****ing right I have one of those. Do you happily pay for NON-government services you don't get? If not, why the hypocrisy?
And you're derailing the conversation quite nicely. Fact is, SA people pay a LOT of tax when you take into account the services we get in return.
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Yes. I agree with you!

Our tax money is badly spent! If we got value for money we wouldnt complain. Your kids could get the education your kids deserve, our old people can be looked after and our kids can get a decent education. WE CAN AFFORD THIS. We just need to manage it right and I agree, The ANC suck at this. I am honestly dedicating huge parts of my life to try do something about the mismanagement.
 
ghoti said:
Yes. I agree with you!

Our tax money is badly spent! If we got value for money we wouldnt complain. Sinbad could get the education his kids deserve, our old people can be looked after and our kids can get a decent education. WE CAN AFFORD THIS. We just need to manage it right and I agree, The ANC suck at this.
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So, you agree. South Africans are heavily taxed when you consider what we get for it?
 
Sinbad said:
So, you agree. South Africans are heavily taxed when you consider what we get for it?
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I agree that we dont get decent value for money. Not by a half. For what we are paying for we should have a lot more than what we have. However, the solution is not to pay less. The solution is to make sure the money is better spent.
 
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