SAA faces big issues

lordnokon said:
Best thing for everyone would be to sell SAA. Because it obvious nobody knows how to run that company anymore...

I would think a company like Emirates, Qatar or one of those big airliners could turn things around.
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No. The culture difference in the work ethic is going to make it almost impossible for those airlines to make it successful. Africa works to a very different beat than the rest of the world.

The other airlines will only show interest if they can get the planes for cheap. but again with shoddy maintenance they also don't know what they are buying. Buying a second hand car is bad enough... Imagine a second hand plane.
 
whatwhat said:
No. The culture difference in the work ethic is going to make it almost impossible for those airlines to make it successful. Africa works to a very different beat than the rest of the world.

The other airlines will only show interest if they can get the planes for cheap. but again with shoddy maintenance they also don't know what they are buying. Buying a second hand car is bad enough... Imagine a second hand plane.
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Shoddy maintenance? By SAAT?
 
phaktza said:
You are so late to the party, dude. Read the thread.
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Well, your "facts" are wrong, so need to reinforce it before you turn snowflake and only your feels matter, and facts don't matter.

phaktza said:
131 SOEs and you give us Mark Barnes. I think my point about the ANC appointing only black CEOs is fact, not opinion. But sure, seems pointing out that fact makes me racist?
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supersunbird said:
Well, your "facts" are wrong, so need to reinforce it before you turn snowflake and only your feels matter, and facts don't matter.
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Wow. The ANC appoints 99.3% non-White CEOs. There, do you feel this change had a big impact? No. OK. Good, we're done.
 
Zoomzoom said:
and that speaks to aiding and abetting incompetence, not corruption. There is a difference.

Again, what is the rationale behind supporting SAA? Do we need an airline? Do we benefit from having an airline? Come on guys, you can do better than 'so there is something to loot' <- this is not why SAA exists in the first place, and not why it continues to exist, even if said looting may be occuring (as opposed to just sheer gross incompetence).
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1. Look after and enrich cadres. Its a part of the ANC's vast and unsustainable patronage network, as all SOEs are.
2. Jobs. The ANC and its partners (unions) have done very, very little to encourage growth and job creation in the private sector (in fact, they've done the opposite, stifling private business), so they need the state to pick up the slack. This is why they refuse to privatise the SOEs because they know it will lead to a jobs bloodbath that will hurt them.
3. Looting. No idea why you are arguing this. This will also tie up with looking after cadres and the patronage network. ANC crony gets a top job at SAA; said crony starts diverting business to his/her connections and at a premium. Think about it; the SAA keeps on asking for billions but never changes the way it does business. Where is that money going?
 
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supersunbird said:
Mark Barnes, CEO of the South African Post Office.

View attachment 669411
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OT: Well, at the time I though he was probably the best candidate, but also said I suspect it even surpasses his skills. He was made the captain of a what was once a ship, but even the remaining rotting ribs crumbling. In fairness not even Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio would dared have Jack Sparrow captain it.
 
thestaggy said:
1. Look after and enrich cadres. Its a part of the ANC's vast and unsustainable patronage network, as all SOEs are.
2. Jobs. The ANC and its partners (unions) have done very, very little to encourage growth and job creation in the private sector (in fact, they've done the opposite, stifling private business), so they need the state to pick up the slack. This is why they refuse to privatise the SOEs because they know it will lead to a jobs bloodbath that will hurt them.
3. Looting. No idea why you are arguing this. This will also tie up with looking after cadres and the patronage network. ANC crony gets a top job at SAA; said crony starts diverting business to his/her connections and at a premium. Think about it; the SAA keeps on asking for billions but never changes the way it does business. Where is that money going?
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I'm going to tell you the same thing - this can't be the only answer to absolutely everything. I think we are totally stuck in a mindset in SA that big bad evil ANC is responsible for everything from sunspots to global warming. This patently is not true. Nor is it true that the only answer to everything that goes wrong with a particular business is 'looting'. It certainly is NOT the damn answer to - why do we have a national airline at all, ESPECIALLY seeing as how the SAA predated the bloody ANC!!!!
 
Zoomzoom said:
I'm going to tell you the same thing - this can't be the only answer to absolutely everything. I think we are totally stuck in a mindset in SA that big bad evil ANC is responsible for everything from sunspots to global warming. This patently is not true. Nor is it true that the only answer to everything that goes wrong with a particular business is 'looting'. It certainly is NOT the damn answer to - why do we have a national airline at all, ESPECIALLY seeing as how the SAA predated the bloody ANC!!!!
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Would you care to explain why SAA was a profitable business before the ANC government got their greedy little hands on it?

You are still blind to the obvious.

I do agree that we don't need a national flag carrier airline at all.
 
Blue Shirt said:
Would you care to explain why SAA was a profitable business before the ANC government got their greedy little hands on it?

You are still blind to the obvious.

I do agree that we don't need a national flag carrier airline at all.
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Still does not answer my blinking question. FFS you are all so busy trying to score bloody points for your POV that none of you are actually answering what was a serious question. WHY do we even have a national airline? Can anyone answer that for me? WITHOUT referring to looting, corruption or the ANC at all! Is there a rationale for it that actually makes any kind of sense?
 
Blue Shirt said:
Would you care to explain why SAA was a profitable business before the ANC government got their greedy little hands on it?

You are still blind to the obvious.

I do agree that we don't need a national flag carrier airline at all.
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They were still making profit even with the ANC in charge.
 
The term "flag carrier" is a legacy of the time when countries established state-owned airline companies. Governments then took the lead due to the high capital costs of establishing and running airlines.
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SAA will be taking delivery of 2 A350s this year. Wonder where they got the money for that?
 
thechamp said:
They were still making profit even with the ANC in charge.
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The crap started with that massive fuel hedge that went against them in 2003 or whenever it was
They never recovered.
Also didn't help when they changed their strategy from owning planes to leasing them, effectively asset stripping the airline
 
phaktza said:
But BBEEE is a thinly veiled disguise to allow cadre deployment to continue.
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^This.
BBBEE is basically legislated corruption, allowing multiple "Feeders" along the supply chain who add absolutely no value. Everyone knows and understands this, and it is therefore very difficult to distinguish between this so-called "fair" corruption (an oxymoron) and "real" corruption. Corruption is corruption, and BBBEE stunts everyone's conscience / moral compass because of the fact that it is legalised. Very few will turn down a free ride if its legal, even if it has negative effects on a particular sector of the population.

Exactly the same with BEE, it creates cognitive dissonance in the minds people who actually have a conscience, but because it is legislated and therefore OK to be completely unfair on racial grounds, it has the net effect of screwing conscience and changing the direction of their individual moral compasses.

Apartheid is a prime example of this. It worried the consciences of a whole lot of people, but because it was legislated discrimination, it was pretty much OK, particularly for those who enjoyed the benefits. With hindsight a few decades later, many of those who enjoyed the benefits realised that their consciences were right all along, and had to deal with the guilt. Some still are. Making things that are moraly incorrect lawful, and thus screwing with people's inherent sense of what's right and what's wrong, does nobody any favours.
 
Zoomzoom said:
Still does not answer my blinking question. FFS you are all so busy trying to score bloody points for your POV that none of you are actually answering what was a serious question. WHY do we even have a national airline? Can anyone answer that for me? WITHOUT referring to looting, corruption or the ANC at all! Is there a rationale for it that actually makes any kind of sense?[/QUOTE]
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Yes, because back in the day many countries has national airlines, even the Europeans. Many countries don't have such anymore. Why do we still have one? You banned me from using those words, so can't say. Happy now that your question has been answered?
 
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