Salaries in job posts

My_King said:
Well, there is 1 reason not to post the pay range.

Not sure if anyone has posted the 3 letter word to describe it.
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It is to mess over people already working there.

Case in point a well known software house in Durban that was bleeding staff to AWS and other places. They doubled some of their bands to keep people, yet those that didn’t know about it weren’t upgraded.

People that defend not posting salary in jobs are those that are willing to get taken advantage of.

You are working the best years of your life for some company, surely you want the best salary for your time?
 
It's a toxic business trend in this country and nothing short of disgusting and disrespectful to all job seekers to be frank. It's purely a divisive tactic to make sure a company can pay the least amount possible for a position by attracting the largest number of applicants, rather than being transparent, honest and running the risk of attracting less people because the salary is not sufficient.

Everyone has bills to pay. How can job seekers be expected to take hours of unpaid time applying for a job (and that's just for ONE job application) when it's not even made clear whether or not they will be able to pay the bills with that position?! You could get to very end of an interview only to find out that you won't be able to survive on the offered salary. It's a disrespectful waste of every applicant's time and money

This country (read: government) has shot itself in the foot with bbeee or however many b's and e's in the stupid acronym, because every single well qualified, hard working and diligent person who is able, eventually leaves this crumbling country for greener international pastures.

I just saw a headline on MyBroadband about the dire skills shortage of air traffic controllers in the country and how it poses an airspace safety risk. Well, what the f**k does the thick government expect. They've done it to themselves.
 
Ted76 said:
It's a toxic business trend in this country and nothing short of disgusting and disrespectful to all job seekers to be frank. It's purely a divisive tactic to make sure a company can pay the least amount possible for a position by attracting the largest number of applicants, rather than being transparent, honest and running the risk of attracting less people because the salary is not sufficient.

Everyone has bills to pay. How can job seekers be expected to take hours of unpaid time applying for a job (and that's just for ONE job application) when it's not even made clear whether or not they will be able to pay the bills with that position?! You could get to very end of an interview only to find out that you won't be able to survive on the offered salary. It's a disrespectful waste of every applicant's time and money

This country (read: government) has shot itself in the foot with bbeee or however many b's and e's in the stupid acronym, because every single well qualified, hard working and diligent person who is able, eventually leaves this crumbling country for greener international pastures.

I just saw a headline on MyBroadband about the dire skills shortage of air traffic controllers in the country and how it poses an airspace safety risk. Well, what the f**k does the thick government expect. They've done it to themselves.
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All about money. Getting the most for the least. Prey on the desperate. It's sad to think that someone is probably willing and able to do your job for less because they're desperate. That's where we are now.
 
Ted76 said:
It's a toxic business trend in this country and nothing short of disgusting and disrespectful to all job seekers to be frank. It's purely a divisive tactic to make sure a company can pay the least amount possible for a position by attracting the largest number of applicants, rather than being transparent, honest and running the risk of attracting less people because the salary is not sufficient.

Everyone has bills to pay. How can job seekers be expected to take hours of unpaid time applying for a job (and that's just for ONE job application) when it's not even made clear whether or not they will be able to pay the bills with that position?! You could get to very end of an interview only to find out that you won't be able to survive on the offered salary. It's a disrespectful waste of every applicant's time and money

This country (read: government) has shot itself in the foot with bbeee or however many b's and e's in the stupid acronym, because every single well qualified, hard working and diligent person who is able, eventually leaves this crumbling country for greener international pastures.

I just saw a headline on MyBroadband about the dire skills shortage of air traffic controllers in the country and how it poses an airspace safety risk. Well, what the f**k does the thick government expect. They've done it to themselves.
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But Ted, surely you know that corporate SA is so far up the ANC's arse? Come now man, you know how it is, they want to lowball you at every turn. There are ways around this, if you get an interview, broach the subject early. If they get funny, tell them cheers.
 
Ted76 said:
It's a toxic business trend in this country and nothing short of disgusting and disrespectful to all job seekers to be frank. It's purely a divisive tactic to make sure a company can pay the least amount possible for a position by attracting the largest number of applicants, rather than being transparent, honest and running the risk of attracting less people because the salary is not sufficient.

Everyone has bills to pay. How can job seekers be expected to take hours of unpaid time applying for a job (and that's just for ONE job application) when it's not even made clear whether or not they will be able to pay the bills with that position?! You could get to very end of an interview only to find out that you won't be able to survive on the offered salary. It's a disrespectful waste of every applicant's time and money

This country (read: government) has shot itself in the foot with bbeee or however many b's and e's in the stupid acronym, because every single well qualified, hard working and diligent person who is able, eventually leaves this crumbling country for greener international pastures.

I just saw a headline on MyBroadband about the dire skills shortage of air traffic controllers in the country and how it poses an airspace safety risk. Well, what the f**k does the thick government expect. They've done it to themselves.
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What makes you think the government is worried or concerned ?
 
PaulGherkin said:
But Ted, surely you know that corporate SA is so far up the ANC's arse? Come now man, you know how it is, they want to lowball you at every turn. There are ways around this, if you get an interview, broach the subject early. If they get funny, tell them cheers.
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Sadly I do know how it is. Last job hunt I wasn’t interested in anything where I didn’t know what salary was on offer.
 
RedViking said:
What makes you think the government is worried or concerned ?
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I don’t think I said anything about the government being worried or concerned, but yeah, I’ve heard this said recently and it’s really indicative of the future of the country when the ruling party isn’t in the slightest bit concerned about a massive skills shortage in almost every sector, or about the more general matter of the country-wide failing infrastructure.
 
Ted76 said:
Everyone has bills to pay. How can job seekers be expected to take hours of unpaid time applying for a job (and that's just for ONE job application) when it's not even made clear whether or not they will be able to pay the bills with that position?! You could get to very end of an interview only to find out that you won't be able to survive on the offered salary. It's a disrespectful waste of every applicant's time and money
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Why not just give your pay expectations up front?
 
cguy said:
Why not just give your pay expectations up front?
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Exactly. I don't know how you go through an entire interview process and only find out the salary at the end. A simple question to the recruiter or the hiring manager of the company at the beginning of the process should clear up any misunderstandings and determine if they're wasting your time or not.
 
deweyzeph said:
Exactly. I don't know how you go through an entire interview process and only find out the salary at the end. A simple question to the recruiter or the hiring manager of the company at the beginning of the process should clear up any misunderstandings and determine if they're wasting your time or not.
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Yup. It’s also not like they’re motivated to lie to you either. They don’t want to go through a whole bunch of interviews when they know they can’t make an offer that meet your expectations.
 
deweyzeph said:
Exactly. I don't know how you go through an entire interview process and only find out the salary at the end. A simple question to the recruiter or the hiring manager of the company at the beginning of the process should clear up any misunderstandings and determine if they're wasting your time or not.
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Correct, it will filter out a lot of possible applicants and save everyone time.
 
To get back to the title of this thread, there are many other issues that make this practice of withholding salary on job ads unethical. Like in the UK and many other countries, if it was law that all businesses have to disclose the market-related remuneration package on the job ad, it prevents the issue of pay gap disputes which arise if one company can pay R50000 per year less for the same position as another company. How much of this is going on in this country due to businesses keeping their salaries a secret and not disclosing them on job ads.

Many progressive countries have made it illegal to ask for your current salary too, another unethical practice in this country. This practice only serves to keep salaries as low as possible. There are unfortunately lots of people in this country earning a pittance for the work they do, and asking for a currently salary only keeps marginalised people marginalised. Exactly why many US states made this practice illegal. Even if a business has access to your current salary, they are breaking the law if they use it to lowball an offer to you which is not market related.
 
Ted76 said:
To get back to the title of this thread, there are many other issues that make this practice of withholding salary on job ads unethical. Like in the UK and many other countries, if it was law that all businesses have to disclose the market-related remuneration package on the job ad, it prevents the issue of pay gap disputes which arise if one company can pay R50000 per year less for the same position as another company.
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What pay gap dispute is that? Surely different companies can pay different amounts for similar roles?

Ted76 said:
Many progressive countries have made it illegal to ask for your current salary too, another unethical practice in this country. This practice only serves to keep salaries as low as possible. There are unfortunately lots of people in this country earning a pittance for the work they do, and asking for a currently salary only keeps marginalised people marginalised. Exactly why many US states made this practice illegal. Even if a business has access to your current salary, they are breaking the law if they use it to lowball an offer to you which is not market related.
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It works for lower end jobs where the work, training, skills, etc. are commoditized. For IT and software development, this has resulted in expectation based low-balls (they guess your comp and undershoot it), harder hiring bars, and fewer hires. For top roles, comp is typically voluntarily disclosed anyway.
 
cguy said:
What pay gap dispute is that? Surely different companies can pay different amounts for similar roles?


It works for lower end jobs where the work, training, skills, etc. are commoditized. For IT and software development, this has resulted in expectation based low-balls (they guess your comp and undershoot it), harder hiring bars, and fewer hires. For top roles, comp is typically voluntarily disclosed anyway.
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At the end of the day if you're good at what you do with a highly in-demand skill and there are very few people who are as good as you, you will be get whatever salary you want.
 
deweyzeph said:
At the end of the day if you're good at what you do with a highly in-demand skill and there are very few people who are as good as you, you will be get whatever salary you want.
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By far the majority of people everywhere is not in this position.
 
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