Samsung requests to see Apple iPhone 4S source code

[JStrike]

I don't see it the samsung is bigger has a clearly visible camera in the corner {which the iphone has but isn't visible} and has 3 buttons on the bottom.

Anyway I'm out, got work to do if you really want to belive it's a good thing apple can patent rectangels but samsung can't patent it's 3g technology then I can only wonder what apple are doing to people.

Cheer dude. Good discussion
Samsung can and does have essential patents. They just can't refuse to licence them.
Apple also has essential patents that it can't refuse to licence.

Design patents are not amongst them.
Samsung just needs to stop copying the iPhone. (And you clearly have a better eye than me. I only noticed the differences when you pointed them out. That indicates that they are way, way, way to similar)

 

[Elimentals]

i'm just saying, Blackberry, Acer, HP, Dell, HTC, Moto and so many more were able to make tablets and phones that could at least be diffirentiated from Apple's devices. So why is Samsung incapable of making a device that looks at least a little bit different?

There surely must be a difference between using something as an influence and copying?

There is not much diffrance between say Samsung and ASUS or Xoom tablets either, its just in this case Samsung is a bigger thread so Apple goes after them.

Transformer vs Xoom

Ipad vs Transformer

Samsung 10.1

 

[b1scu1t]

True and I fully agree that apple will outsell samsung in this and probably the next quarter aswel but it is clear that apple no longer has the iron grip on the smartphone market it used to have. Also I am not quite sure I get your point so samsung invented groundbreaking technology {irrelevant whether others did aswel} and are COMPELLED to let others use it but you are O.K with apple getting design rights on the rectangle, their is no way this can be good for the consumer I can't believe you are trying to defend this.

Am I the one that decided, DESIGN patents and FRAND patents should separate?

I think there's a reason why these two dealt with differently...
Design is something that physically distinguishes product of someones creativity and make them unique to their creator, and it present a consumer with something that they do/don't find attractive since we're not robots. We're humans with personality.
Sorta like a Picasso painting and a Van Gogh painting, music, or any artform. If you've ever written a song or painted something and it meant something to you, you'd understand it's a personal thing. It's a representation of who and what's inside of you. It shouldn't be copied cause wouldn't this world just be kinda dull if everything looked pretty much the same except the internal components always differ.
Wouldn't that force some companies to close their doors cause why have more than one product that looks the same?

So just because a rectangle isn't a shape created by Apple, they're not allowed to patent anything that is based on that shape? When's the last time ANYONE invented a shape?
By that reasoning, nothing that your eyes can see, can be patented? Cmon be reasonable. They didn't sue or win because of a "shape".

There no way unique design can't be good for the consumer....
Look at the different tablets and tell me which one looks the least different from the iPad?
It's more than possible to design a 10" tablet that LOOKS different. If a designer can't do that, a company should get a team that could've designed it first, sorta like what Apple did...?

Thanks to FRAND patents, the world can actually communicate and function at least a little more effectively, it saves some money cause the world can share technology instead of having to try making different standards be compatible with each other. What if every country in the world had to design their own standards for communication? Disaster!

A person can definitely elaborate more but i'm sure anyone can understand the point.
That's the reason why we have courts. People at least try not to mix personal tastes, biased attitudes, likes & dislikes with legal decisions. That's the wild west for ya.
We don't also agree with them but hey, what can we do about it? Write a complaint on hellopeter

 

[HavocXphere]

Samsung just needs to stop copying the iPhone.

There aren't exactly a lot of other ways to design these things. I doubt there is a market for triangular tablets tbh. Nor are there many different types of shiny black.

No, that they have to give access. I'm talking about internal financials...

Weird. I thought only the annual (&interim) financial statements are referred to as "financials". Guess I was mistaken.

 

[b1scu1t]

design a superior product which everyone wants.

High 5 to that one brother.... THAT!......
Maybe a few people want an iPod, or an iPhone, or an iPad, or a Macbook Air, or an iMac, or want to buy music from that other digital store their friend was talking about.....

 

[b1scu1t]

There is not much diffrance between say Samsung and ASUS or Xoom tablets either, its just in this case Samsung is a bigger thread so Apple goes after them.

Transformer vs Xoom

Ipad vs Transformer

Samsung 10.1

No doubt that any company is a threat to another one, so it seems they all like the iPad's design the most and not the old Samsung one or the old Windows based ones, so Apple should then go after them all? I mean they all look quite a lot like the one who looked something like THAT first, right?

 

[Elimentals]

No doubt that any company is a threat to another one, so it seems they all like the iPad's design the most and not the old Samsung one or the old Windows based ones, so Apple should then go after them all? I mean they all look quite a lot like the one who looked something like THAT first, right?

Well if thats the case I can get tablets that looked like iPads... from 2004... like say the P88

For every one of the old images that looked different than the Ipad you will most probably find one that closely match it. There is just soo many ways a rectangle with rounded edges and no buttons can go.

 

[b1scu1t]

Well if thats the case I can get tablets that looked like iPads... from 2004... like say the P88

For every one of the old images that looked different than the Ipad you will most probably find one that closely match it. There is just soo many ways a rectangle with rounded edges and no buttons can go.

Go tell that to the courts... I'm not the legal system.

 

[JStrike]

There aren't exactly a lot of other ways to design these things. I doubt there is a market for triangular tablets tbh. Nor are there many different types of shiny black.


Weird. I thought only the annual (&interim) financial statements are referred to as "financials". Guess I was mistaken.

Of course you can design phones that dont look almost exactly like the iPhone. Just look at Blackberry, the new Nokia Lumia 800 etc. Great designs, and while they might be inspired by the iPhone, they aren't complete knockoffs.

And the rectangle patent is part of a whole suite of patents that work together. You are only focusing on a part of the patent.
And Apple is only using it against a company that is ripping it off. Apple is not using it against other tablet makers that have rectangular designs, but didn't copy the rest of the design package and managed to have a different look

 

[JStrike]

But once again, that tablet looks almost nothing like the iPad. And Apple would have no problem with it

 

[Elimentals]

All I am saying is they should stop bitching about who is coping who and win us with innovation.

No one is going to buy a ASUS or Samsung thinking its an iPad. People will buy what fits there pockets or what is the best value for money. Right now I have to say its iPad because of the games, but I am leaning to Android because of its openness and customization.

So to both parties here I would say dont waste my money in a useless court battles to show who has the biggest "member".

If Apple wants to take someone to court over coping looks they should rather go after the aPad... now there is a bastard that blatantly copies.

No sir they not scared about who is coping them... this is all about who is the biggest threat, plain and simple.

 

[JStrike]

All I am saying is they should stop bitching about who is coping who and win us with innovation.

No one is going to buy a ASUS or Samsung thinking its an iPad. People will buy what fits there pockets or what is the best value for money. Right now I have to say its iPad because of the games, but I am leaning to Android because of its openness and customization.

So to both parties here I would say dont waste my money in a useless court battles to show who has the biggest "member".

If Apple wants to take someone to court over coping looks they should rather go after the aPad... now there is a bastard that blatantly copies.

No sir they not scared about who is coping them... this is all about who is the biggest threat, plain and simple.

I do agree with you. But when you come up with something, and you biggest competitor keeps bring out devices that look just like the one you came up with, that would surely piss you off

 

[b1scu1t]

"there are only so many ways to design something with rectangle shape"
"design possibilities are limited"
"we can't do something unique"
Etc,etc

THAT's the kind of give-up-hope, self-pity attitude that gets a person sued, accepts boundaries & defeat and hinders innovation and settles for "let's use someone else idea instead of INVENTING our own.
Let's follow instead of lead.
THAT's the attitude of designers that needs to be fired.

It's a lack of that attitude that turned a near bankrupt company, into a company whose product line up is worth more than oil.
I'm not saying the created the idea of a portable music player, a phone or a tablet, but they at least invented something unique enough and something different enough compared to what existed, that they can distinguish their own product from 3 meters away...?

There must certainly be a point of something being too close to another invention? Otherwise what's the point of a patent system?
I'm 110% confident that everyone who says "Apple can't patent a design", will be just as pissed if someone else copied your work. You can try to deny it and be all humble and say "no, i would man up, accept it and moved on" and I will tell you B S!

It absolutely sucks being ripped off and if you had the resources to fight and you believe you have enough to stand on in court, no doubt you wouldn't just have "moved on". if a court agrees, then well done, you found others that feel the same way, if they don't agree, THEN move on.

I mean, why can HTC, Nokia, etc design something "different enough" looking and Samsung can design that new Nexus that has its own look but no, there is absolutely no possible way on earth that they could design a Galaxy SII in ANY other way? Hmmm...
They can design this RECTANGLE shaped tablet that doesn't look like the iPad but there's no possible way on earth to make the Galaxy 10.1 look different?!?
Please...

 

[Elimentals]

I do agree with you. But when you come up with something, and you biggest competitor keeps bring out devices that look just like the one you came up with, that would surely piss you off

Only if they have better sales... which clearly they dont.

To be honest, Apple is doing Samsung a huge favor here. Samsung 10.1 tablets sucks, and updates lag behind like its no one's business. Apple should have left Samsung to hang themselves.

Edit: All that this court cases did now was give Samsung enough time to fix software problems + free marketing. Cause face it, the constant court battles of you copied me made end users think "Ok, so if the close enough to go to court with, maybe its just as good an experience"

 

[JStrike]

Only if they have better sales... which clearly they dont.

To be honest, Apple is doing Samsung a huge favor here. Samsung 10.1 tablets sucks, and updates lag behind like its no one's business. Apple should have left Samsung to hang themselves.

Edit: All that this court cases did now was give Samsung enough time to fix software problems + free marketing. Cause face it, the constant court battles of you copied me made end users think "Ok, so if the close enough to go to court with, maybe its just as good an experience"

Copying Apple's products have helped Samsung go from being a small cellphone manufacturer, to being the worlds largest smartphone manufacturer (Of course, not all their products are ripoffs, just mainly the Galaxy range. But I'm sure the success of the knockoffs had a knock-on effect all their other lesser smartphone models)

But you raise a good point. If Apple had ignored them, maybe they would have just gone away. i.e Don't feed the troll

 

[Elimentals]

Copying Apple's products have helped Samsung go from being a small cellphone manufacturer, to being the worlds largest smartphone manufacturer (Of course, not all their products are ripoffs, just mainly the Galaxy range. But I'm sure the success of the knockoffs had a knock-on effect all their other lesser smartphone models)

But you raise a good point. If Apple had ignored them, maybe they would have just gone away. i.e Don't feed the troll

From what I understand, and looking at the court cases its only the Samsung Galaxy S and the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 that is copied, not the entire range. Also Looking at the Wave, S2 and Note, they dont look even remotely like Apple's devices.

 

[HavocXphere]

Of course you can design phones that dont look almost exactly like the iPhone. Just look at Blackberry, the new Nokia Lumia 800 etc. Great designs, and while they might be inspired by the iPhone, they aren't complete knockoffs.

Of course you can design something different with buttons and whatnot & then it looks different. The question is how are you going to design something that is black, has no visible buttons, is rectangular and consists primarily of a screen with a border....*without* it looking like an iphone? Those are all very reasonable generic requirements & I don't think Samsung should be prevented from designing something like that. If the iphone has some funky 6 button configuration on it that you operate with 5 fingers & your nose then they could legitimately claim that nobody should be allowed to copy it: Its distinctive & innovative and others would just have to find another way.

A major part of the problem I think is that we are talking about a very clean minimalistic design here. Think of flatscreen TVs...they all look the same. Why? Because there simply isn't room for doing anything different without adding garbage.

And Apple is only using it against a company that is ripping it off.

I'd very much prefer not to rely on a company to judge when its fair to use a patent. As said above by Elemental...they just happened to pick their biggest most threatening competitor.

 

[MattyW]

Apple just lost a case claiming a spanish company copied the ipad design.

Link: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/378566-Apple-loses-iPad-design-copy-lawsuit

This is the problem because apple has had some success and still has support even while carrying on their lame patent battle they are now trying to sue everyone, this tablet isn't even the same size as the ipad.

And also note these are the same design infringments that won them a galaxy tab ban in germany just goes to show how twisted the system is.

 

[JStrike]

From what I understand, and looking at the court cases its only the Samsung Galaxy S and the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 that is copied, not the entire range. Also Looking at the Wave, S2 and Note, they dont look even remotely like Apple's devices.

Yes, sorry, you are right. I keep forgeting those other devices are part of the galaxy range as well

 

[JStrike]

Of course you can design something different with buttons and whatnot & then it looks different. The question is how are you going to design something that is black, has no visible buttons, is rectangular and consists primarily of a screen with a border....*without* it looking like an iphone? Those are all very reasonable generic requirements & I don't think Samsung should be prevented from designing something like that. If the iphone has some funky 6 button configuration on it that you operate with 5 fingers & your nose then they could legitimately claim that nobody should be allowed to copy it: Its distinctive & innovative and others would just have to find another way.

A major part of the problem I think is that we are talking about a very clean minimalistic design here. Think of flatscreen TVs...they all look the same. Why? Because there simply isn't room for doing anything different without adding garbage.


I'd very much prefer not to rely on a company to judge when its fair to use a patent. As said above by Elemental...they just happened to pick their biggest most threatening competitor.

Look at the Nokia Lumia 800. Fantastic looking smartphone. Sure, it is inspired by the iPhone, but it is certainly not a blatant copy.
That is what can be achieved by simply doing your own R&D