SaxAppeal pulled off shelves

[PostmanPot]

For the last time now, I know exactly what you are saying. No need for any more explanations.

Your problem is with the word "choose" and that it implies "preference". I know that! But no one intended for the word to mean "preference" here. Understand that.

So if it makes you feel better, please give me another word to use in place of "choose" to explain that a zygote/baby/person has no decision as to what race it is!

 

[PeterCH]

For the last time now, I know exactly what you are saying. No need for any more explanations.

Your problem is with the word "choose" and that it implies "preference". I know that! But no one intended for the word to mean "preference" here. Understand that.

So if it makes you feel better, please give me another word to use in place of "choose" to explain that a zygote/baby/person has no decision as to what race it is!

No No No! Not at all.

1. You can bash Baptists because they can choose not to be Baptists.
We bash Baptists because we think they have the X, Y, Z stereotypes.
We would prefer these people to be $OUR_RELIGION (includes atheism
for argument's sake), but because they can't be, we'll carry on bashing them,
our reasons for bashing them remain - until they all change to $OUR_RELIGION.

2. You can't bash Asians because they can't choose to be Asians.
We would like to bash Asians because we think they have A, B, C stereotypes. We would prefer these people to be $OUR_RACE,
but because they can't be, we'll stop bashing them but our reasons for
wanting to bash them haven't gone away. We haven't convinced ourselves
these people don't deserve to be bashed because they are identical to us.

 

[PeterCH]

To be not racist you should say:

It's OK to bash religion because it's a doctrine people follow and some doctrines just suck.
It's NOT OK to bash race because all races are the same.

The KEY is that you're BASHING someone. To bash something at all you have to be convinced that it is inferior to whatever the standard is.
In religion you can say, choose another religion but if you bash race at all you're being racist.

 

[PostmanPot]

1. You can bash Baptists because they can choose not to be Baptists.

2. You can't bash Asians because they can't choose to be Asians.

Agreed fully. That is all that's important in this thread's case, or at least in grayston and myself's case.

And I agree that all races have the potential to be equal. Of course poverty, opression etc. puts a bit of a spanner in the works.

Tood-a-loo, thanks for the chat.

 

[PeterCH]

Agreed fully. That is all that's important in this thread's case, or at least in grayston and myself's case.

And I agree that all races have the potential to be equal. Of course poverty, opression etc. puts a bit of a spanner in the works.

Tood-a-loo, thanks for the chat.

Noooo - you can't bash Asians because they are Asian. You can bash individuals because they killed someone or are lazy but you can't bash a whole race,
even if they could choose to be Asians and I'm sure virtually every Asian person would say they'd stay Asian if they could, simply blanketly bashing Asians is wrong. Likewise you can't compare - a baby not choosing to be born in a slum with alcoholic parents to a baby being born Asian. It's
Basing any conclusions 'worth' bashing on colour is racist.

Ciao, thanks for the chat.

 

[Balstrome]

So in terms of what you have said, if an artical appeared making similar statement about all atheists, you would not be offend even in the slightest?

Any idea what such an article would consist of ?

 

[PostmanPot]

Noooo - you can't bash Asians because they are Asian. You can bash individuals because they killed someone or are lazy but you can't bash a whole race,
even if they could choose to be Asians and I'm sure virtually every Asian person would say they'd stay Asian if they could, simply blanketly bashing Asians is wrong. Likewise you can't compare - a baby not choosing to be born in a slum with alcoholic parents to a baby being born Asian. It's
Basing any conclusions 'worth' bashing on colour is racist.

Agreed fully.

No one was bashing any race, merely explaining why one cannot compare bashing something that we can choose over with something that we cannot choose over and is fixed and permanent. And by "choose", I am not insinuating any superiority whatsoever.

 

[LazyLion]

... so that gives us the right to call people who make different choices to us by offensive names?

 

[R/SGT]

Then don't read it. No-one's forcing you to do it. It's not like tasteless humour is a mandatory part of the school syllabus or anything...
Cheap laughs and publicity.
Come on, seriously, I mean, durrr...
It's only slander if Jesus _doesn't_ feel like a tool. Unfortunately, that's a question only he can answer.
When it says: If you follow religion X, you should be physically and/or mentally attacked.
Freedom of speech means you can't say that. But freedom of religion doesn't stop anyone from criticising or mocking religion.
Hey - every time you say that yours is the only true God, you're ridiculing EVERY other religion EVER invented. So now you need to take your own medicine, and like it.
Well - you throw your belief in people's faces whenever you mention it. And you're doing it now. Keep it completely to yourself, and only then can you claim moral high ground.

So why should I not be allowed to defend my beliefs in a non violent manner?

As for the people whining about the loss of funds that this magazine generates, I would place that at the feet of the students.

Since they decided to put this in their magazine they were probably aware of the furor it would create and therefore I would say that they were not really interested in generating revenue but rather in the shock value.

 

[R/SGT]

Any idea what such an article would consist of ?

Be creative, there is plenty of material out there

 

[Devill]

re; "Jesus is referred to as a 'tool, Christians as stupid c**nts and God as a 'pervert'," he writes.

I think that's entirely fair.

And the gruntingly stupid mouth-breathers who happen to have been raised by equally primitive cave-people who believe in rubbish about some 'sky fairy' - should shut up and realize they can't burn people alive anymore.

I think people who take the time to hate a group this much that is not actively causing any harm is just stupid. I really can not understand how the "smart" people can not see how stupid this looks.... "We believe their is no god but we will spend 40% of our free time studying and reading these fictional works and arguments to enter debate against people who actually believe this although the chance that i will change their minds are close to 0% and the probability of it having any lasting impression on anything is 0%." If I was an atheist and religious people did not directly bother me I would not waste my time on trying to change their minds, I would rather apply myself in a much better way like understanding quantum physics and the finer points of Number theory.

I am also sure if I chose to call all ANC members ****s I would be accused of hate speech. Same with calling all english speaking people moffies or any other such comment.

 

[PeterCH]

Agreed fully.

No one was bashing any race, merely explaining why one cannot compare bashing something that we can choose over with something that we cannot choose over and is fixed and permanent. And by "choose", I am not insinuating any superiority whatsoever.

You still don't get it. This has nothing to do with 'choose' in the way you think. The very idea that you can insinuate that 'the reason why one cannot bash race is because one cannot choose one's race' is racist in it's core. Because you don't understand it, I won't say you're a racist but if you said this to a person who's race was traditionally oppressed you'd hear my message again.

 

[PeterCH]

I think people who take the time to hate a group this much that is not actively causing any harm is just stupid. I really can not understand how the "smart" people can not see how stupid this looks.... "We believe their is no god but we will spend 40% of our free time studying and reading these fictional works and arguments to enter debate against people who actually believe this." If I was an atheist and religious people did not directly bother me I would not waste my time on trying to change their minds.

I am also sure if I chose to call all ANC members ****s I would be accused of hate speech. Same with calling all english speaking people moffies or any other such comment.

We get a skewed sample of atheists on this forum, that's the problem. I know many atheists who tolerate religion and even expound it's virtues as well as practice its customs. They have no issues with this and would consider this childish and not funny the way funny stuff on Tellytubbies isn't funny for most adults either. Makes me think of the MST3K tagline "This film deals with issues which are teens issues."

If you cannot imagine 'smart' people doing X, perhaps they are 1. Not doing it. 2. Not all that smart.

 

[Waaib]

Naidoo said on Thursday night the articles were "wrong and immoral".

"If this was directed at the Islamic faith, there would be a massive outcry, maybe even with violence. Thankfully we won't respond that way, but that does not make us whipping boys."

I like the part where the Christian guy says that if this was aimed at Muslims there would be violence because Christians are more peaceful. **Sigh**rolls-eyes**

 

[PeterCH]

I like the part where the Christian guys says that if this was aimed at Muslims there would be violence but that Christian are more peaceful. **Sigh**

Correct. Pretty hypocritical of him.

 

[Devill]

We get a skewed sample of atheists on this forum, that's the problem.

I know. I also have more than a hand full of atheist friends who seem not to be bothered by things they don't believe in.

Like I said in my previous posts the atheists whom spend 40% free time.....

I think people who take the time to hate a group this much that is not actively causing any harm is just stupid. I really can not understand how the "smart" people can not see how stupid this looks.... "We believe their is no god but we will spend 40% of our free time studying and reading these fictional works and arguments to enter debate against people who actually believe this although the chance that i will change their minds are close to 0% and the probability of it having any lasting impression on anything is 0%." If I was an atheist and religious people did not directly bother me I would not waste my time on trying to change their minds, I would rather apply myself in a much better way like understanding quantum physics and the finer points of Number theory.

 

[PostmanPot]

You still don't get it. This has nothing to do with 'choose' in the way you think. The very idea that you can insinuate that 'the reason why one cannot bash race is because one cannot choose one's race' is racist in it's core. Because you don't understand it, I won't say you're a racist but if you said this to a person who's race was traditionally oppressed you'd hear my message again.

Acknowledging that it is simply physically impossible for one to choose their race alludes to none of the following:

rac⋅ism
   /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Something along the lines of "It's impossible to choose the best race" would allude to the above.

 

[Sneeky]

8 pages about cr@p!

 

[PeterCH]

Acknowledging that it is simply physically impossible for one to choose their race alludes to none of the following:

You're NOT doing that. You're giving THAT as the REASON why you can't bash
people of that race. That is racist.

"Shame, you're Hispanic. But you couldn't choose to be Hispanic so it's OK,
we won't laugh at you." - Do you not think that is a racist idea?

I know it's impossible to choose your race, but why should one ever want to choose their race?

 

[PostmanPot]

You're NOT doing that. You're giving THAT as the REASON why you can't bash
people of that race. That is racist.

No I'm not - I'm saying that religion-bashing and race-bashing is not comparable in the slightest bit.

"Shame, you're Hispanic. But you couldn't choose to be Hispanic so it's OK,
we won't laugh at you." - Do you not think that is a racist idea?

Of course that's a racist idea, but that's not what I'm doing.