Science Must Fall? - UCT Fallist discusses Decolonization

porchrat said:
You can do some MRI work but the idea of you walking on the astral plane or something as a result of that trance is not falsifiable. It isn't science.
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Can we agree that there are observable phenomenon that are not easily subject to current means of measurement / investigation? (Not that I think walking on astral planes is a valid phenomenon, but there are other things that are harder to dismiss out of hand).
 
C4Cat said:
If you think scientists are not subject to same biases, prejudices and errors in thinking as other human beings you're naive.
And while the scientific method goes a long way to nullifying this human fallibility, it can do nothing when it comes to choosing what to study and the resources available. In your ideal universe a scientist studies whatever he wants. In the real world scientists are subject to the same human emotions as the rest of us. They also want glory and a nobel prize, the admiration of their community and peers and to win the race to whatever discovery is currently in fashion. They also want jobs and funding and to avoid ridicule, just like all of us.
So if a scientist seriously wants to study african witchcraft - for example - he or she may choose not to because (as we've seen here) they will be subjecting themselves to ridicule. So they'll study genetic engineering for pest resistance instead. In this way the progress of science is not as objective and value free as the scientific method itself is, but is subject to the normal frailties of human thinking.
How many scientists in the past chose not to study astronomy or to dissect human bodies for fear of the church? To think the progress of our world view through science is value free and objective is just absurd.
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Why do you keep on digging? The topic is about #sciencemustfall. Everything in life is subject to what you describe in your post.
 
Zoomzoom said:
Can we agree that there are observable phenomenon that are not easily subject to current means of measurement / investigation? (Not that I think walking on astral planes is a valid phenomenon, but there are other things that are harder to dismiss out of hand).
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Examples?
 
C4Cat said:
So if a scientist seriously wants to study african witchcraft - for example - he or she may choose not to because (as we've seen here) they will be subjecting themselves to ridicule. So they'll study genetic engineering for pest resistance instead. In this way the progress of science is not as objective and value free as the scientific method itself is, but is subject to the normal frailties of human thinking.
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How does African witchcraft differ from any other witchcraft/magic, that until now has shown itself to be nothing more than parlour tricks. It's disingenuous to say that a scientist studying African "witchcraft" would not get the same response as a scientist studying witchcraft in any other part of the world.
 
C4Cat said:
So if a scientist seriously wants to study african witchcraft - for example - he or she may choose not to because (as we've seen here) they will be subjecting themselves to ridicule. So they'll study genetic engineering for pest resistance instead. In this way the progress of science is not as objective and value free as the scientific method itself is, but is subject to the normal frailties of human thinking.
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They don't study for fear of ridicule. They don't study african witchcraft because it's ridiculous. There is no merit in studying what has been debunked for decades from other cultures.
 
Vrotappel said:
Examples?
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There are incidents of otherwise unexplained healings that are medically verified - please don't ask me for specific cases off the top of my head - if you google you will find them. I also think there are a lot of herbal treatments that get short shrift because of cultural bias against anything outside of the medical community. I'm thinking mostly about medical related stuff to be honest rather than woo-woo 'supernatural' stuff.
 
Zoomzoom said:
There are incidents of otherwise unexplained healings that are medically verified - please don't ask me for specific cases off the top of my head - if you google you will find them.
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Those have all been debunked - please don't ask me for evidence, if you google you will find it.
 
C4Cat said:
So if a scientist seriously wants to study african witchcraft - for example - he or she may choose not to because (as we've seen here) they will be subjecting themselves to ridicule. So they'll study genetic engineering for pest resistance instead. In this way the progress of science is not as objective and value free as the scientific method itself is, but is subject to the normal frailties of human thinking.
How many scientists in the past chose not to study astronomy or to dissect human bodies for fear of the church? To think the progress of our world view through science is value free and objective is just absurd.
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While I agree that a scientist that wanted to research witchcraft (whether it existed or not) would be met with ridicule I really don't think that this is the reason it is not researched. A scientist engages in research too find evidence to support a hypothesis, at the very start the scientist must believe that the hypothesis has a reasonable chance of being supported by available evidence. If no scientist believes in the hypothesis that African witchcraft actually exists then why would they choose to research it? It's pretty much the same reason that scientists don't conduct research on the existence of dragons and unicorns.
 
Cray said:
While I agree that a scientist that wanted to research witchcraft (whether it existed or not) would be met with ridicule I really don't think that this is the reason it is not researched. A scientist engages in research too find evidence to support a hypothesis, at the very start the scientist must believe that the hypothesis has a reasonable chance of being supported by available evidence. If no scientist believes in the hypothesis that African witchcraft actually exists then why would they choose to research it? It's pretty much the same reason that scientists don't conduct research on the existence of dragons and unicorns.
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Don't need to research it, they exist..... Its a given since they're so cool.
 
Cray said:
While I agree that a scientist that wanted to research witchcraft (whether it existed or not) would be met with ridicule I really don't think that this is the reason it is not researched. A scientist engages in research too find evidence to support a hypothesis, at the very start the scientist must believe that the hypothesis has a reasonable chance of being supported by available evidence. If no scientist believes in the hypothesis that African witchcraft actually exists then why would they choose to research it? It's pretty much the same reason that scientists don't conduct research on the existence of dragons and unicorns.
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The Scotts will disagree. TSk.
 
Dastrix said:
They don't study for fear of ridicule. They don't study african witchcraft because it's ridiculous. There is no merit in studying what has been debunked for decades from other cultures.
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who said that it hasn't been studied - a simple google search shows otherwise:
http://science.jrank.org/pages/8158/Witchcraft-African-Studies.html
African Studies of Witchcraft - Early Anthropological Contributions
Witchcraft serves many different social functions. In ethnographic studies of peoples around the world, anthropologists have detailed many of the positive social functions of witchcraft. As popularized in Evans-Pritchard's work, witchcraft can be understood as an explanation for misfortune, which might function to provide people with a sense of control over their own lives and the ability t…

African Studies of Witchcraft - Politics Of Witchcraft: Local And Global
African Studies of Witchcraft - Philosophical Approaches To The Study Of Witchcraft
African Studies of Witchcraft - Moral And Ethical Relevance
African Studies of Witchcraft - Modernity
African Studies of Witchcraft - Conclusions
In the study of witchcraft in African societies, the concern with systems of logic and thought that has long engaged anthropology and philosophy continues. More recently, there has been a focus on indigenous systems of knowledge and hermeneutical traditions. More contemporary scholars are interested in forms of interpretation, skepticism, and cultural critique that come from within local thought t…

African Studies of Witchcraft - Bibliography
Austen, Ralph A. "The Moral Economy of Witchcraft: An Essay in Comparative History." In Modernity and Its Malcontents: Ritual and Power in Postcolonial Africa, edited by Jean Comaroff and John Comaroff, 89–110. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1993. Bockie, Simon. Death and the Invisible Powers: The World of Kongo Belief. Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1993. Bond,…



Read more: African Studies of Witchcraft - Early Anthropological Contributions, Politics Of Witchcraft: Local And Global, Philosophical Approaches To The Study Of Witchcraft - JRank Articles http://science.jrank.org/pages/8158/Witchcraft-African-Studies.html#ixzz4NVoA4xjY
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Zoomzoom said:
Can we agree that there are observable phenomenon that are not easily subject to current means of measurement / investigation? (Not that I think walking on astral planes is a valid phenomenon, but there are other things that are harder to dismiss out of hand).
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If it can be observed it can, by definition, be measured.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Powerful stuff.
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Needless to say, the student is probably aware by now that her statement was in error; that a larger – and precisely decolonised – history of the sciences would highlight the prominent contribution of non-Western traditions of science to what is today called “modern science” as well as the complicity of the sciences in some of the most devastating acts of terror known to (wo)man.

But, quite ironically, her error proves her point: the presentation of knowledge by South African universities as predominantly the product of the West, and the failure to recognise that some of the major scientific disciplines (medicine, physics, astronomy, mathematics, among others) have deep heritages in Africa, China and India, for example, is precisely what generates such serious gaps in students’ knowledge base.
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Once again do most of what is mentioned here not fall within other fields of study at university level. Shouldn't this kind of general history of science be taught at primary or high school level.

To those who study science at university, how much of what you study focus on the history of those topics?
 
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