Scottish Referendum on Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 53.2%

  • No

    Votes: 52 46.8%
  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
Spizz said:
Funny, same can be said of Tony. He forgot he was Scottish and so has everyone else. So much so he has not been seen in Scotland for the whole campaign as he was considered too 'toxic' by his masters in Westminster.
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:D

Ag let me put it this way: The United Kingdom is in my opinion a good thing. The idea of Scotland having a currency and full sized diplomatic corps is daft. Having to check passports and being outside of a customs union is just idiotic and Cameron's attempts to paint independence in this light has been both dishonest and deeply problematic.

So what is really needed is for England, Scotland and Wales (and possibly Cornwall) to be independent nations with separate membership of the European Union and the United Nations (so there should be an English delegation in the National Assembly) as well as (as is the case largely) in sports codes. Quite contentiously is the issue of NATO where Scotland has no representation but has huge amounts of responsibility.

The shared crown and voluntary association gives rise to institutions of a United Kingdom and duplicating an upper house of Parliament seems silly, the arrangement of a single Supreme Court of Appeal in London (as opposed to Supreme Court of the United Kingdom as recently created) that properly absorbs the JCPC and a permanent and perpetual customs union are all possible with or without the nations possessing independent sovereignty.
(the Isle of Man, for that matter is not legally a part of the United Kingdom but is a "British" sovereign state that uses United Kingdom institutions)


The South African government should dispatch a representative to the government of the United Kingdom (at Whitehall) who is accredited to the Court of St James and the Royal Court of Scotland at the Palace of Holyroodhouse (the Welsh don't seem to have put anything in the rung on this) and keeps general residence in London. As a republic our High Commissioner would also represent the state (and not merely the government). By similar token the government of the United Kingdom should dispatch a High Commissioner who represents Her Majesty as well as Her Majesty's Governments. If apposite there can be a Scottish Consulate and an English Consulate (and an Embassy of the United Kingdom) [and Durban, Bloemfontein and Port Elizabeth all have stronger "Scots" connections than English, whilst Parliament as an "English" institution fits well as an "English Consulate"] but apart from the décor citizens of either nation receive the same service.
 
ghoti said:
Could you link to the information so I can become more educated. As I understand it, things used to be a lot worse. These used to be a verse in God save the queen that used to have to do with conquering the scots and there even worse things.

I do know the Scottish bank was bailed out by the the english banks and I think they own 20% of the bank of Scotland, so I understand some reform happened, but I thought that was post Blair. But yeah, Ill become more educated when you can link the wikipedia literature.
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The campaign of misinformation and downright lies has been incredibly successful and there are a lot of myths about the buy outs pushed by the usual culprits such as the DM and the Telegraph. Here's a quick and nice article explaining things...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/gor...tish-independence-bank-bailout_b_4895234.html

Next time you hear someone say an independent Scotland could not have afforded the banking bail out, remember how the US Federal Reserve bailed out Barclays to the tune of £552.32bn. Ask them if they think Scotland would have made the same bank regulation mistakes as the city of London led Westminster government? It is a fact that the contribution of an independent Scotland's taxpayers to any bank bail-out that may or may not have been required in an independent Scotland would have been the same as it has been with Scotland part of the UK.

80% of the peak losses at RBS stemmed from its London-based businesses. The financial crisis shows us that bailing out the banks - like reinsurance - is a risk that is globe in nature and shared between countries, and any tales about Scotland having to accept the burden all by itself are pure myth
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Spizz said:
The campaign of misinformation and downright lies has been incredibly successful and there are a lot of myths about the buy outs pushed by the usual culprits such as the DM and the Telegraph. Here's a quick and nice article explaining things...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/gor...tish-independence-bank-bailout_b_4895234.html
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Okay, not what I was looking for, but thanks for that info. Whether Scotland could or could not have afforded the bailout is irrelevant. They were bailed out :D And more curious about links from Paul. I wanna read up how labour got away with shafting labour, so I am less ignorant.
 
ghoti said:
Okay, not what I was looking for, but thanks for that info. Whether Scotland could or could not have afforded the bailout is irrelevant. They were bailed out :D And more curious about links from Paul. I wanna read up how labour got away with shafting labour, so I am less ignorant.
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I was just pointing out that they weren't bailed out by England or and English bank nor do England own 20% of the RBoS :)

Oh, and about your other point, here's a verse from God Save the King added AFTER the Union...

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
 
Spizz said:
I was just pointing out that they weren't bailed out by England or and English bank nor do England own 20% of the RBoS :)
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Okay, guess wikipedia is being dishonest again :(

Subsequently, with a slumping share price and major loss of confidence, the bank fell sharply in the rankings, although in 2009 it was briefly the world's largest company by both assets (£1.9 trillion) and liabilities (£1.8 trillion).[8] It received significant support from the UK government, which, as of September 2013, holds and manages an 81% stake through UK Financial Investments (UKFI),[9] although its voting rights are limited to 75% in order for the bank to retain its listing on the London Stock Exchange.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Royal_Bank_of_Scotland_Group


Oh, and about your other point, here's a verse from God Save the King added AFTER the Union..
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,
May by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush,
God save the King.
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That was not my point. Unless Tony Blair is 300 years old.... Im specifically talking about the time during Blairs turn in office.
 
ghoti said:
Yes supporter arrested after 'assaulting unionist at polling station' as Salmond's bullies hit a blind man in the face - just for saying NO!

Ouch, and this is on Google News`s front page :(
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Emotions running high and no surprise. It is of course completely unacceptable.

Stop reading the Daily Mail though, they have an agenda and their coverage has been both inflammatory and insulting. I've been watching Sky News all morning and they've been at many polling stations and talk about nothing but joviality and high spirits. Go figure.
 
ghoti said:
Okay, guess wikipedia is being dishonest again :(



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Royal_Bank_of_Scotland_Group



That was not my point. Unless Tony Blair is 300 years old.... Im specifically talking about the time during Blairs turn in office.
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Wikipedia is talking about the bailout by the UK government. That is not by England or English banks.

And I thought Paul answered so I was just giving a little more info on some of your other points. Apologies if I've misread you or misunderstood.
 
Spizz said:
Emotions running high and no surprise. It is of course completely unacceptable.

Stop reading the Daily Mail though, they have an agenda and their coverage has been both inflammatory and insulting. I've been watching Sky News all morning and they've been at many polling stations and talk about nothing but joviality and high spirits. Go figure.
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I read everyones view (that makes it on the front page of Google News). I dont specifically go to their website. I just click on the top 10 links they supply.
 
Spizz said:
Wikipedia is talking about the bailout by the UK government. That is not by England or English banks.

And Paul answered so I was just giving a little more info on some of your other points. Apologies if I've misread you or misunderstood.
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Paul hasnt answered my request for links so I can become less ignorant. As you have shown we get things confused in this discussion. Which is why I asked for wiki links to show what he means because his statements are too ambiguous to understand clearly what he is saying (im not saying he is right or wrong, I just want to read the full story to the statements he is making). However, if you can supply the links to support his statements on Blair I would appreciate it.

For me it doesnt make sense for Blair (strong labour) to mess around too much with his support base, so if he did something that removed important "real" Scottish institutions from Scotland, I want to understand the context (like did the swop out something invalid and fossilized for more streamlined system or did they remove legitimate institutions to screw over the Scots) and why the really strong labour base in Scotland did not stop him.
 
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Following on Twitter, the friggin Polls are irrelevant to me, one up one down, makes no sense...... I know that the NO are meant to win, but heck! seeing the snaps on twitter, there seem's a lot enthusiasm for the YES vote...
 
ghoti said:
I read everyones view (that makes it on the front page of Google News). I dont specifically go to their website. I just click on the top 10 links they supply.
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Sure. It's just maddening and so insulting.

"Alex Salmond's bullies hit a blind man in the face - just for supporting the No campaign'

Jeebus wept. Character assassination continues.

Wait and see the headlines for this one..

Police in Airdrie, North Lanarkshire, said a man in his 70s had a No poster taken from his mobility scooter and replaced with Yes stickers as he was shopping.
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:D
 
Spizz said:
Sure. It's just maddening and so insulting.

"Alex Salmond's bullies hit a blind man in the face - just for supporting the No campaign'

Jeebus wept. Character assassination continues.

Wait and see the headlines for this one..



:D
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If you cant handle character assassination you shouldnt be in politics. Its kinda par for the course in politics. That happens no matter what in politics. You simply can not please everyone so no matter what, people will trash talk you.
 
Chris said:
Spizz & Imran: Every newspaper (besides the Sunday Herald) are supporting the Union. It's not unfair for newspapers to take positions on issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014#Newspapers
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As I posted earlier (see below). But some are more balanced than others, and that is where I prefer to hang out as I prefer to get a more realistic view of what is actually out there.
imranpanji said:
How the media shafted the people of Scotland

George Monbiot

erhaps the most arresting fact about theScottish referendum*is this: that there is no newspaper – local, regional or national, English or Scottish – that*supports independence except the*Sunday Herald. The Scots who will vote yes have*been almost without representation in the media.

There is nothing unusual about this.*Change in any direction, except further over the brink of market fundamentalism and planetary destruction, requires the defiance of almost the entire battery of salaried opinion. What distinguishes the independence campaign is that it has continued to prosper despite this assault.

More here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/media-shafted-people-scotland-journalists
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