Sick leave definition

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M3mPh1z

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Hi All

Not entirely sure where to post this but it seems this section has become the general work contract discussion area.

My fiance has been working for a company for the last 7 or so months. As she did not have her own transport and was was sick of using public transport, she decided to buy a scooter, which she has had for the last 4 months.

As she has never driven anything with 2 wheels before she has inevitably fallen off the thing twice already, resulting in about 6 days sicks leave in the mean time.

This morning she got notified that should she have another accident resulting in sick leave they are not willing to take it as normal sick leave, pointing her to the following clause in her contract.

Any absence due injury as a result of a voluntary activity, i.e. sport, extreme games, etc. does not qualify as sick leave and will be deducted from annual leave.
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Now in my mind this does not nearly cover using a scooter as transport.

Opinions?

EDIT: On top of that, if she were to use a car, they do not provide a parking spot and there are no public parking spots in the area
 
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It does in my opinion. She has numerous alternatives that don't require her riding a vehicle that she is not properly trained to. Her choices are putting her in a position of possible injury and it is quite clear that this is having a detrimental affect on her relationship with her employer and her own safety for crying in a bucket. She needs to get off that scooter asap.

Her employers are well within their rights. If someone took 6 days of sick leave in their first 7 months of employment, irrespective of the cause I'd get rather suspicious of them. In your fiance's case the cause is known and preventable. Yet it continues.

Surely you can see it from their perspective as well?
 
Exactly what is inevitable about two serious falls from a scooter in 4 months?
 
M3mPh1z said:
EDIT: On top of that, if she were to use a car, they do not provide a parking spot and there are no public parking spots in the area
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So how do any of the employees get to work then? This doesn't sound right at all. Surely her contract stipulates that own transport is necessary? Even if it didn't, her transport to and from work is a private endeavour...
 
I'm currently on both sides of the fence here.

I can see the point of view of her employer and personally am not a huge fan of the scooter for obvious reasons.

On the other hand they were accidents, out of her control during her commute to work on a acceptable and common mode of transport. If she got stabbed on the bus or was in a car accident how is that any different. And surely in those cases their statement would not stand.

DJ... said:
So how do any of the employees get to work then? This doesn't sound right at all. Surely her contract stipulates that own transport is necessary? Even if it didn't, her transport to and from work is a private endeavour...
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They have a few spots which are all already used by other (higher up) employees. The rest get lifts/use public transport. I don't have a copy of her contract so not sure what is stipulated about own transport
 
Well recovering from an accident would fall under temporary incap leave (if the company has that policy) but yeah I think your fiance's employer is suspicious as DJ says
 
well my advice is just go with it for now since she newish employee. You can handle any further dispute legally if necessary at a later stage
 
Did a doctor book her off? Then its sick leave, simple as that in my opinion. Riding a scooter to work and back does not fall into the category of "sport, extreme games, etc." I will ask a labour lawyer, I'm actually curious about this now

I mean what if someone is in a serious car accident (you voluntarily drive your car right) then that cant be sick leave either :rolleyes:
 
In both cases she was booked off for said time by a doctor, she even returned 2 days early on crutches because being a new employee she did not want to be off for too long.

Archer said:
Did a doctor book her off? Then its sick leave, simple as that in my opinion.
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Well if she went bungee jumping and broke a leg, a doctor would probably still book her off but then the clause would apply.
 
M3mPh1z said:
I'm currently on both sides of the fence here.

I can see the point of view of her employer and personally am not a huge fan of the scooter for obvious reasons.

On the other hand they were accidents, out of her control during her commute to work on a acceptable and common mode of transport. If she got stabbed on the bus or was in a car accident how is that any different. And surely in those cases their statement would not stand.
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Look at it for a second from the employer's perspective. If you're involved in so many accidents in such a short space of time, then clearly there is an underlying issues. Evidently the scooter is proving to be an incredibly unsafe mode of transport for her and is impacting negatively on her relationship with her employers, who are of the opinion that she needs to remedy the underlying problem. They are doing so by enforcing a perfectly acceptable clause in her contract that she willingly signed.

They're not putting her up for disciplinary hearings. They haven't launched an investigation into her absenteeism. They're not threatening her with firing. They're instead attempting to remedy the situation by amicable means.

If she has an actual issue with getting to and from work without the scooter, then she needs to discuss this with her employer in a civil and approachable manner, with the goal being to find a reasonable middle ground. She should not stay quiet and pissed off. Parking bays in office parks can range between R500 per month to a few grand per month, hence why there might be reluctance to invest in this on her behalf, but she needs to make a case for it. If she has to drive to work, they need to ensure that she has safe space to park her vehicle, and I'm sure they will come to the party if she is mature and reasonable in her discussions with them.

Bottom line is that she needs to engage with her employer about it. Then not allocating parking for her is not reasonable on their part. Her continuing to ride her death-mobile to work each day is also not reasonable, for her safety and her continued relationship with her employer...
 
suspicious or not, if a person says they are sick, it is the employers responsibility to take it at face value.

you are entitled, as an employer, to inform the person that they are taking too much sick leave but you cant say "no sorry you cant have anymore"

as an employee, you are entitled to 36 sick days per 3 year cycle.

Labour Law > than any contract you sign which is in contrast to the basic conditions of employment act.

Ive been through all this in my company. employers are cheeky when it comes to sick leave, but it employees need to be more careful and responsible.
 
M3mPh1z said:
In both cases she was booked off for said time by a doctor, she even returned 2 days early on crutches because being a new employee she did not want to be off for too long.
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Being booked off by a doctor is actually not as important as it sounds. Companies can still get rid of you if they feel that you are abusing the sick leave cycle, even if you only take your allotted sick leave and have a doctor's note for each. It's a fact that people hate to hear, but the company cannot afford to continue to employ someone who religiously takes a sick day in each cycle, if they have adopted a strict suit-mentality.

I prefer to adopt a more performance-based approach to this sort of thing and don't particularly care if you take a day off, as long as you are producing the necessary results, and your days off don't impact negatively on others around you...
 
techead said:
as an employee, you are entitled to 36 sick days per 3 year cycle.
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30 for the vast majority who work a 5 day week if memory serves correct. She's also fast approaching a point of having no sick leave due...

http://www.labourguide.co.za/conditions-of-employment/types-of-leave-437

A sick leave cycle is a period of 36 months employment with the same employer immediately following the date of commencement of employment, or the completion of the prior sick leave cycle. During the first 6 months of employment, the employee is entitled to 1 day sick leave for every 26 days worked. On the first working day of month number 7, the balance of the 30 days becomes available to the employee, less any days taken sick during the first 6 months of employment.

The amount of the sick leave entitlement is a number of days that the employee would ordinarily have worked during a six-week period. In other words, if the employee works a 5-day week then it is 30 days sick leave in each leave cycle or every 3 years, or a 6-day week would result in 36 days sick leave a every 3 years.
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Interesting topic, Your fiance should just put normal leave in to keep the boss happy.She is new and is causing problems for herself already.The employers request is not unreasonable.
 
personally, I think the employer can go get stuffed. If she has taken 6 days in the first 7 months, thats totally legal. It equates to 1day/month for first 6 months, which is fine according to what I know and what DJ posted. If she has worked out a probation period, and is permanent she can take the other 24 days sick leave due in the next 6 months if she wants to (have to have doc approval) and there is stuff all an employer can do about it. Like DJ said, a lot has to do with performance. If the employer cannot prove without reasonable doubt that the persons performance was compromised and caused harm to the company, then the employee can walk right into the CCMA and then the company will have an issue on their hands.

though its in her best interest if she wants a future at the company, to comply with them. not moral though I agree.

its a catch 22
 
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DJ... said:
I prefer to adopt a more performance-based approach to this sort of thing and don't particularly care if you take a day off, as long as you are producing the necessary results, and your days off don't impact negatively on others around you...
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This I don't mind albeit being in a technical role where one can remote in makes this easier even if your on sick leave.
Don't agree with the employers in the OP as a scooter is "technically" a motor vehicle as it requires a licence + she had been booked off
 
The bottom line is that the employer no longer considers this type of incident as sick leave, irrespective of her justification. And it is preventable. So she has a few choices here: she can fight this, which will certainly not be in her best interests. Or she can discuss the matter maturely with them with the goal to find an amicable solution that both parties are satisfied with.

It's as simple as that from where I stand...
 
Batista said:
Interesting topic, Your fiance should just put normal leave in to keep the boss happy.She is new and is causing problems for herself already.The employers request is not unreasonable.
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So you'd be happy to put in normal leave if you had a car accident and needed time to recuperate? What about if you use those death traps we call taxis?

Speaking to management and trying to find a middle ground is the best way forward. If they stand their ground I would seek legal advice and go from there.
 
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