Sick leave definition

[techead]

So you'd be happy to put in normal leave if you had a car accident and needed time to recuperate? What about if you use those death traps we call taxis?

Speaking to management and trying to find a middle ground is the best way forward. If they stand their ground I would seek legal advice and go from there.

Archer you took the words right out my mouth... What happens if you in a car accident? they gonna deny sick leave for that as well? :wtf:

It's a delicate balancing act, and DJ does have a valid point. It needs to be discussed in a mature manner with management. See what they got to say about it??

Bottom line, they cannot deny sick leave, and taking sick leave without severe effect on performance is NOT grounds for dismissal.

 

[Ms_S]

An ex-collegue of mine bought a new golf 6 gti in 2011, by 2012 he smashed the thing twice already. Towards the end of 2012, he was in an accident with his gf's new 1 series. Each time he took sick leave. When his sick leave was finished (he abused it quite a bit), he took temporary incapacity leave.

From your SO's companies point of view, I can understand their decision. Sick leave is abused at my work, and employees don't hesitate to take advantage.

It still sucks for her though. Maybe she will get better at driving the scooter. Does she have license yet?

 

[MickeyD]

Before replying some more info is required:
1. Is she still on probation?
2. Does she have a motorbike license?
3. What is her company's sick leave policy?

 

[DJ...]

So you'd be happy to put in normal leave if you had a car accident and needed time to recuperate? What about if you use those death traps we call taxis?

This isn't the case though. And I'm quite sure that somewhere in her contract it will state that a suitable vehicle is required with a certain license as well. In this case the sticking point is that the employee feels that there is no place to park her car, so has chosen not to engage her employer about this and instead decided by her own accord to use a scooter. A scooter that has now caused her numerous days off work due to it being an inherently dangerous mode of transport. I guess the employer feels that this is completely unnecessary.

All that needs to be resolved here is the parking allocation for her car. If they refuse to allocate her a parking space and there is absolutely no place to park in or around the vicinity, then by all means, she can continue to use the scooter, but I doubt that the employer's tune will change. They are clearly starting to view her as a possible liability and may just be very happy to pay her a 3 months' salary fine if she's deemed by the CCMA to have been unfairly dismissed. She's only been there for 7 months! She's taken all of her sick leave allotment and depending on the method she adopts to resolve this, might end up continuing to ride the scooter and submitting sick leave on principle. In that case I'd also want her gone.

But I doubt that's how it will play out if she addresses this properly...

 

[Batista]

So you'd be happy to put in normal leave if you had a car accident and needed time to recuperate? What about if you use those death traps we call taxis?

Speaking to management and trying to find a middle ground is the best way forward. If they stand their ground I would seek legal advice and go from there.

If i didnt have any sick leave left, i would put normal leave in.If i didhavesick leave left i would put in sick leave, but i f i haveanother accident a month down the line then obviously my employer will ask questions.
Your fiance has crashed twice, has she got her license for her scooter?

If she wants to have a good career in this company,as Techhead said, she must comply.She is new there and hasnt started on the best foot!!
Legal advice? Seriously now...

 

[techead]

Before replying some more info is required:
1. Is she still on probation?
2. Does she have a motorbike license?
3. What is her company's sick leave policy?

1. I assumed NO, as 7 months is a bloody long probation period
2. I assumed YES
3. Refer to no.1 - Labour Law > Internal Company Policy, it's the law.

 

[DJ...]

Before replying some more info is required:
1. Is she still on probation?
2. Does she have a motorbike license?
3. What is her company's sick leave policy?

Her contract might also stipulate the required vehicle type, condition, and license code, in which case she's got no leg to stand on...

 

[Archer]

This isn't the case though. And I'm quite sure that somewhere in her contract it will state that a suitable vehicle is required with a certain license as well.

Since when are scooters and motorbikes not suitable transport if driven legally? Taxis are also inherently dangerous modes of transport given how the vast majority of them are driven, will the same rules apply I wonder? The only statement made in the contract refers to "sport, extreme games, etc." It would be a hard sell to put a wee scooter in categories similar to that.

The rest of your post is conjecture. In both instances of sick leave taken its sounds like this lady was clearly injured, its a far cry from abuse of the system. And then she is willing to limp into work on crutches while technically still being booked off. How is this abusive?!

 

[techead]

Her contract might also stipulate the required vehicle type, condition, and license code, in which case she's got no leg to stand on...

A valid point. Id like to see this as well. Though I've never dealt with an employment contract outlining these details before.

 

[techead]

This isn't the case though. And I'm quite sure that somewhere in her contract it will state that a suitable vehicle is required with a certain license as well. In this case the sticking point is that the employee feels that there is no place to park her car, so has chosen not to engage her employer about this and instead decided by her own accord to use a scooter. A scooter that has now caused her numerous days off work due to it being an inherently dangerous mode of transport. I guess the employer feels that this is completely unnecessary.

All that needs to be resolved here is the parking allocation for her car. If they refuse to allocate her a parking space and there is absolutely no place to park in or around the vicinity, then by all means, she can continue to use the scooter, but I doubt that the employer's tune will change. They are clearly starting to view her as a possible liability and may just be very happy to pay her a 3 months' salary fine if she's deemed by the CCMA to have been unfairly dismissed. She's only been there for 7 months! She's taken all of her sick leave allotment and depending on the method she adopts to resolve this, might end up continuing to ride the scooter and submitting sick leave on principle. In that case I'd also want her gone.

But I doubt that's how it will play out if she addresses this properly...

Just a thought on the above. From what I know, that is not correct. Its a rolling period. So she has 24 days due to her. It doesnt accrue a day per month like annual leave does. It's all available up-front. You get an allocation at the beginning of the cycle, and you remove from the total amount as you go along.

 

[MyWorld]

In both cases she was booked off for said time by a doctor, she even returned 2 days early on crutches because being a new employee she did not want to be off for too long.



Well if she went bungee jumping and broke a leg, a doctor would probably still book her off but then the clause would apply.

And you let her get back on a scooter?!
I would think the responsible thing to do would be to get her off the scooter ASAP, having two serious injuries in 4 months, that would prove beyond any doubt that she should never attempt to even ride a scooter around the block!
:O

 

[DJ...]

A valid point. Id like to see this as well. Though I've never dealt with an employment contract outlining these details before.

It's fairly commonplace, and is intended to avoid precisely this sort of nonsense to begin with. People would call in unable to get to work because their car broke down for the 20th time, or the taxis are on strike, or the taxi broke down. Doesn't fly. So vehicle type, condition and license to drive it are included in the contract. It's commonplace for outbound staff at least...

 

[Cicero]

I can see both sides of the story. I just dont particularly like the way they go about it. Rather just talk to her face to face about it. When they just send official emails about it citing employment contracts and such like it just pisses me off.

 

[MickeyD]

And you let her get back on a scooter?!
I would think the responsible thing to do would be to get her off the scooter ASAP, having two serious injuries in 4 months, that would prove beyond any doubt that she should never attempt to even ride a scooter around the block!
:O

This is where I'm heading to... the company is doing HIS job of getting her off the scooter before she becomes another road accident statistic!!!

 

[DJ...]

Just a thought on the above. From what I know, that is not correct. Its a rolling period. So she has 24 days due to her. It doesnt accrue a day per month like annual leave does. It's all available up-front. You get an allocation at the beginning of the cycle, and you remove from the total amount as you go along.

In the first 6 months 1 day accrues for each 26 days worked.

During the first 6 months of employment, the employee is entitled to 1 day sick leave for every 26 days worked. On the first working day of month number 7, the balance of the 30 days becomes available to the employee

So the rest of her allotted sick days are now due after 6 months worked. But that's still not to say that taking them will not reflect badly on you. Especially if it starts to happen in a pattern...

 

[noxibox]

It's really none of the employer's business how or why someone is sick. If they're legitimately booked off work and within the parameters specified by labour law then the company has no recourse. Do they really want the labour department going over their company policies with a fine-toothed comb, because if their sick policy is anything to go by they're probably breaking the law elsewhere too.

Interesting topic, Your fiance should just put normal leave in to keep the boss happy.She is new and is causing problems for herself already.The employers request is not unreasonable.

It's totally unreasonable and it sounds like someone needs to bring down the labour hammer on them. There's absolutely no reason any employee should use their annual leave unless they've run out of sick leave.

 

[Batista]

This is where I'm heading to... the company is doing HIS job of getting her off the scooter before she becomes another road accident statistic!!!

What are the alternatives?For her to not go to work? I was in the same position,Fiance crashed twice (not her fault), but man she is a tough woman, wouldnt take no for an answer.Got rid of the damn thing now though.

 

[OGroteKoning]

You can also argue that if she stays home not being sick at all, she is entitled to sick leave since she is sick in her head.

 

[techead]

I happened to bump into my HR lady downstairs. She is more clued up with this kind of thing. She said that clause is specifically there for voluntary sports and recreation activities and in no way whatsoever covers transport. Whether its by Taxi, Bus, Train, Car, Motorbike or Scooter.

In her opinion, the employer is taking a fat chance.

 

[DJ...]

I can see both sides of the story. I just dont particularly like the way they go about it. Rather just talk to her face to face about it. When they just send official emails about it citing employment contracts and such like it just pisses me off.

In the corporate world you have to cover your arse, so her line manager would have in all likelihood have had no choice but to approach HR to better understand the legalities of the situation and the repercussions of him asking her to find alternative transport. It is best practice to consult with HR before making a decision on how to handle a situation that relates to HR in the first place. At that point HR attempt to make themselves relevant by taking over the issue and often the boss doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy either - hence the email. Him asking her to find a safer mode of transport could at the end of the day land him in hot water if her contract has no stipulations on this point...