You tell them!
-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: What is the ultimate French toast topping?
SMS resignation can be final
- Thread starter blunomore
- Start date
You tell them!
You are being silly now. Let's live in reality here for a moment:
1. Do you understand the nature of crime in SA? The vast majority of it is economically motivated. In plain language, your cellphone gets stolen in order for it to be sold. The thief wants to make money from it. The thief, in 99% of the cases, does not know you from a bar of soap and could not give a rat's ass about your employment. He wants the phone/laptop because it has a monetary value. He is not gonna send an SMS from your phone to your boss.
2. Have you not paid attention to the messages SAPS has sent out a million times now? PLEASE REPORT ALL CRIMES. Once a theft of a piece of electronic equipment has been reported, and someone uses it to impersonate you, you have a valid defence. The courts are not idiots and they will take this into account on the off chance the thief resigns on your behalf
That covers thievery, what about the other 99% of cases where someone who simply doesn't like you can just create a fake account? Or get your password, but not your device?
No offence, but I get the feeling you're one of those people who think the interwebs is a nice, kind, friendly place, where people are honest and who they say they are. I keep on trying to explain the nature of the beast to people but it feels like trying to explain a lion to a European, when they've only seen them in zoos and think they're cute.
And my original question, why then can't I enter into or get out of other contracts with a message? Why should I go and stand in queues or fax thorugh endless forms to end a contract with a cellphone company or an ISP?
Last edited:
blunomore
Honorary Master
Read my post to Gary re: SMSes and their validity.
I do not think the internet is a "nice, kind, friendly place, where people are honest and who they say they are".
However, I am not paranoid because I practice the basic safety measures. Should those measures fail, then I repeat: there are ways to prove to a court that certain electronic actions were not committed by the person in question, but by an imposter.
The_Unbeliever
Honorary Master
I agree with that.
SMS/facebook/etc resignation will be a nightmare, especially if somebody else claims to be you.
So easy to get rid of people you don't like.
Yes, you can put a password on your cellphone/computer/laptop/whatever, but emails can be spoofed or forged.
Suppose John Doe got a gmail account called [email protected] - somebody else who doesn't like him can simply create a new gmail account called [email protected] or [email protected] (or whatever, the permutations are endless), email the HR department with a really snotty resignation letter and make big trouble for John Doe (and his family).
The_Unbeliever
Honorary Master
Given the current backlog of our courts, your case might take years to process. Best to make the best of a bad situation and look for another job in the meantime...
Alright, why can't I get out of contracts with an email then? Emails are only valid as legal evidence in very specific circumstances, as they should be. Saying that every SMS, twitter update, forum post, Facebook "like" etc. should be considered legal documents is just silly, they should be seen in the same context as oral statements, at most.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
Surely your employment contract also comes into this?
The companies just need to specify in their employment contracts that resignation must be in the form of a signed letter.
The companies just need to specify in their employment contracts that resignation must be in the form of a signed letter.
I understand you're desperately trying to make a point, but was that really necessary?
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
The DOL has accepted SMS communication as a valid means of communication except for "please call me"s for quiet some time now. My wife had a staff member who claimed she was sick and never informed us, her excuse was that she only had airtime for an SMS and labour does not allow it - we proved her wrong with her written warning
after consulting labour case law & DOL guidelines during her disciplinary hearing.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
A verbal resignation is usually the initiation point but an employer cannot accept it (my interpretation of the law). I would say that an employer can only accept the resignation in writing and not verbally but within time limits.
Its common for staff members to tell/phone their boss at night to say cheers, I'm sodding off in 30days time. But the employee can withdraw the resignation up until the moment when its accepted by the employer. Without a signed written letter, the employer would not have any proof of the employees intent.
blunomore
Honorary Master
Where did I say that???????
I repeat for the THIRD time now: AFAIK, the legal status of SMS communication is yet to be tested in court.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
I will agree with you when viewing your statement in the context of this OT. As per my previous post, the only time I can see an SMS as legal is when it communicates the intent of the initiator and on its own it cannot be the only means of legal communication.
So you actually agree with me then, the topic title is "SMS resignation can be final" I'm saying it can't/shouldn't be allowed to be. It's just like saying you resign, you still need to actually hand in a signed letter.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
Yes as by law of contract it needs to be accepted by the employer - this however does open up the question if a reply SMS accepting the resignation is legal - that part I doubt.
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
Yes as by law of contract it needs to be accepted by the employer - this however does open up the question if a reply SMS accepting the resignation is legal - that part I doubt.
No it doesn't. If someone hands in their resignation they can leave on whatever terms are stipulated in their contract regardless of acknowledgement or agreement from the employer.
MyWorld
Executive Member
I think you are also miss understanding the reason behind this new turn in events.
I have the unpleasant task to have people working under me and I speak out of experience when I say that the person that resigns via cellphone sms is usually the type you want to get rid of anyway. If you are a somewhat valued employee the employer will first contact you to confirm whether this is serious or not, and I'm sure that is the case in almost all such cases unless the employee made it difficult for the employer to make contact (long periods of leave from work, not answering their cellphones, etc.)
I doubt with all this labour legislation around that there is an employer that will just outright terminate your services when he receives a SMS unless that person has toyed with the employer on numerous occasions or is the caused of unsatisfactory or unprofessional service (read: the sparks flew between employer and employee on a regular basis).
Facebook, if you send your employer a PM stating that you are resigning, then yes, but if I simply had a bad day and just blurt out that I wish to resign on a wall post, then it may be excusable. It has happened to all of us, we have all hit such a low, but then again, you should realize that Facebook is not the place to make public your feelings.
In any case, every employer (or most of them) out there will consider the circumstances and communicate with the employee before ending their services.
Last edited:
Other Pineapple Smurf
Honorary Master
Sorry, brain is fuzzy today (too much medication). The title refers to "can be final" and it can only be final once its accepted by the other party. Once accepted there is no turning back.
An employer does not have to accept the resignation so it is not yet final. This allows the employee to withdraw the resignation at any time. I've read of a lot of case instances where an employer has accepted the resignation, the employer & employee agree to withdraw the resignation but since its already accepted they cant' They have to setup a whole new contract from scratch once the notice period has expired. Its a warning to employers not to accept resignations where their is a possibility of a withdrawal and both parties are happy to do so, and to inform employees what it means to accept or to reject a resignation.
Correct, the employee cannot withdraw it once the employer accepts it, but there is no requirement for the employer accept it for it to be valid. Whether the employer accepts is only relevant in regard to whether the employee can revoke it without mutual agreement. An employer does not have the power to reject a resignation.
And putting a new contract in place is really no big deal. But in reality they can simply tear up the resignation and pretend it never happened. Obviously big companies are more likely to do it the by-the-book way.
And putting a new contract in place is really no big deal. But in reality they can simply tear up the resignation and pretend it never happened. Obviously big companies are more likely to do it the by-the-book way.
MickeyD
RIP
Coming back to the SMS issue...
IMO it will not be legalised as a method of legal signature as you need to prove that the recipient actually received the message.
With an email (which is now a legal document) you can set the tracking options to return delivery and read receipts of the recipient to the sender and these can be used as proof that the recipient received and read the email.
Is there a SMS equivalent to track your messages?
IMO it will not be legalised as a method of legal signature as you need to prove that the recipient actually received the message.
With an email (which is now a legal document) you can set the tracking options to return delivery and read receipts of the recipient to the sender and these can be used as proof that the recipient received and read the email.
Is there a SMS equivalent to track your messages?