So we received our first invoice...

[LazyLion]

So we received our first e-toll invoice for our work vehicle. 18 pages for passing under 8 gantries over two days over a month ago. 13 of the pages are duplicates of the 5 pages of the Copy Tax Invoice and Account Statement. We are not registered with SANRAL and we do not have an e-tag (so I don't exactly know how we have an account?). If they are going to send out this much paperwork for each invoice (every two days) how much money will they be wasting on admin? By the way, we received this in the mail 1 day before the cut-off for the discounted amount. If we had received it one day later there would have been no way at all to qualify for the discounted amount.

 

[MKFrost]

At this rate Sappi better go plant plenty more trees...

 

[LazyLion]

OUTA should start a paper recycling business that will fund all their legal challenges just from the SANRAL invoices!

 

[Agent Boobies]

I sat pouring over this site: https://www.jp-sa.org/eTolls.asp ...yesterday after receiving the first of my invoices It's pretty informative. Good luck! (I'm liking the idea, first heard on News24, of everybody pasting government vehicle license plate and disc stickers on their own cars. Apparently when a woman complained to Sanral about id theft, after being invoiced in error for gantry crossings by a vehicle that was not her own, she was simply told to prove it... )

 

[CL-West]

At this rate Sappi better go plant plenty more trees...

+1 excellent

 

[Ekstasis]

Real question; the company going to pay the bill?

 

[grok]

And I still haven't received any invoice from Sanral despite almost 20 days of using the highways .. :erm:

Maybe the envelope is too thick for processing by the Post Office?

 

[LazyLion]

Real question; the company going to pay the bill?

Not if I can help it

Somebody else pointed out that there should actually be at least 8 photos... one for each Gantry pass.
There are actually only three with all of this paper.
Time to write them a registered letter asking for more proof....

 

[Ekstasis]

Not if I can help it

Somebody else pointed out that there should actually be at least 8 photos... one for each Gantry pass.
There are actually only three with all of this paper.
Time to write them a registered letter asking for more proof....

you go boy!

 

[froot]

(I'm liking the idea, first heard on News24, of everybody pasting government vehicle license plate and disc stickers on their own cars.

I'll come laugh at you when you're sitting in jail.

 

[Ekstasis]

Not if I can help it

Somebody else pointed out that there should actually be at least 8 photos... one for each Gantry pass.
There are actually only three with all of this paper.
Time to write them a registered letter asking for more proof....

you go boy!

 

[froot]

you go boy!

Yup, we be back to double posts.

 

[MartyMarts]

And I still haven't received any invoice from Sanral despite almost 20 days of using the highways .. :erm:

Maybe the envelope is too thick for processing by the Post Office?

Prepare your [-]anus[/-] postbox for a fatty!

 

[DJ...]

Re: how you have an account - VPC open an account for every vehicle that passes under the gantries. They do this without your acceptance or agreement, but I think the Sanral Act covers it. When you register/login on their site just to view a balance or pay, you effectively activate your account, link and confirm ID numbers and plate numbers, and bind yourself to Sanral's terms and conditions, one of which is to accept responsibility for all vehicles linked to the VPC account under your ID number.

They do this without ever asking you to accept Ts and Cs at all. You never have sight of the Ts and Cs...

 

[Paul Hjul]

Not if I can help it

Somebody else pointed out that there should actually be at least 8 photos... one for each Gantry pass.
There are actually only three with all of this paper.
Time to write them a registered letter asking for more proof....

For what its worth you could really piss on their battery by writing out a cheque for the amount of the 3 gantries which are proved in the invoice and send it with a letter informing them that should the courts set aside the applicable notice the company will either cancel the cheque if it has not been deposited or demand the refund before embarking on recovery if it has been deposited and that you will require photographic proof of any gantry in order to effect payment and same proof is required by registered post as you cannot otherwise guarantee receipt. Send same by registered post and retain copies or have the courier delivery.

They then are unable to claim any nature of intent, have to deal with your case and will just generally be fcked off

 

[froot]

Oh. Eish. So Scamral may in fact stop and arrest non-payers.

From the Scamral act of 1998.

Law enforcement on national roads
54. (1) The Agency may authorise any of its employees to take steps on a national
road or any other property of the Agency, in the manner and on the conditions as
prescribed, with a view to preventing any offences created by this Act, any other
contraventions thereof and any offences in terms of the road traffic and the road safety
laws being committed on the national road or other property.
(2) Such an authorised employee will have the powers of arrest and detention
conferred on a peace officer in terms of Chapter 5 of the Criminal Procedure Act, 1977
(Act No. 51 of 1977), with regard to any person who, on a national road or the property
mentioned in subsection (1), has committed any offence referred to in that subsection in
the presence of the authorised employee or who is suspected by the authorised
employee, on reasonable grounds, so to have committed such an offence.
(3) Despite subsections (1) and (2), the Agency may enter into an agreement with—
(a) any municipality, in terms of which the municipality is authorised, and
undertakes, to perform the law enforcement functions mentioned in subsections
(1) and (2), on a national road within the municipal area, through
employees of the municipality designated or appointed by it for that purpose;
(b) the Premier of any province, in terms of which the province is authorised and
undertakes to perform those law enforcement functions on the national roads
in the province, or any of those national roads as specified in the agreement,
through employees of the province designated or appointed by the province
for that purpose.

But no, DJ, I do not see any mention of any sort of accounts being opened by the VPC or Scamral in either the Scamral act or the amendment bill.

 

[DJ...]

Oh. Eish. So Scamral may in fact stop and arrest non-payers.

From the Scamral act of 1998.

Pretty sure that only applies after a warrant of arrest has been issued...

But no, DJ, I do not see any mention of any sort of accounts being opened by the VPC or Scamral in either the Scamral act or the amendment bill.

Well the only Ts and Cs that apply to VPC are Sanral's TS and Cs, and within there, they make explicit reference to the VPC "unit".

I wholeheartedly disagree that it should, but considering that VPC have no terms and conditions, and Sanral claim in their Ts and Cs that they are a division of Sanral (which they are not), it makes sense that one is bound by the Sanral Ts and Cs. If not, then there are no terms and conditions of use, or payment via VPC, which I cannot imagine to be the case. IN addition, the wording of the Sanral Ts and Cs is suitable vague enough to cover VPC registrations...

 

[Paul Hjul]

Pretty sure that only applies after a warrant of arrest has been issued...

Or an offence is committed in their presence. If you look at s27 taking your humvee through a toll boom would count. The whole problem here is that SANRAL are pretending that not prepaying for an etag or doing their hops and whiddles amounts to a s27 offence.

 

[froot]

Pretty sure that only applies after a warrant of arrest has been issued...



Well the only Ts and Cs that apply to VPC are Sanral's TS and Cs, and within there, they make explicit reference to the VPC "unit".

I wholeheartedly disagree that it should, but considering that VPC have no terms and conditions, and Sanral claim in their Ts and Cs that they are a division of Sanral (which they are not), it makes sense that one is bound by the Sanral Ts and Cs. If not, then there are no terms and conditions of use, or payment via VPC, which I cannot imagine to be the case. IN addition, the wording of the Sanral Ts and Cs is suitable vague enough to cover VPC registrations...

It would be applicable as soon as the non-payment bit becomes an offence, whenever that is.
And yes, I agree with your disagreement of the Ts and Cs bit.

Or an offence is committed in their presence. If you look at s27 taking your humvee through a toll boom would count. The whole problem here is that SANRAL are pretending that not prepaying for an etag or doing their hops and whiddles amounts to a s27 offence.

Precisely. They are of the opinion that they are now the end-all of the roads and even resistance to their system is a crime.

 

[IzZzy]

Or an offence is committed in their presence. If you look at s27 taking your humvee through a toll boom would count. The whole problem here is that SANRAL are pretending that not prepaying for an etag or doing their hops and whiddles amounts to a s27 offence.

Exactly. There is a conflict between the Act and the Regulations.

The Act says it is a criminal offence immediately you pass under a gantry, and there is no concept of a grace period in the Act.

The Regulations introduce the concept of a grace period, but this concept conflicts with the Act.

Any conflict between an Act and Regulations means the Regulations are void to the extent of the conflict.