So we received our first invoice...

Paul Hjul said:
For what its worth you could really piss on their battery by writing out a cheque for the amount of the 3 gantries which are proved in the invoice and send it with a letter informing them that should the courts set aside the applicable notice the company will either cancel the cheque if it has not been deposited or demand the refund before embarking on recovery if it has been deposited and that you will require photographic proof of any gantry in order to effect payment and same proof is required by registered post as you cannot otherwise guarantee receipt. Send same by registered post and retain copies or have the courier delivery.

They then are unable to claim any nature of intent, have to deal with your case and will just generally be fcked off
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The legal mind is a wondrous thing :D
 
IzZzy said:
Exactly. There is a conflict between the Act and the Regulations.

The Act says it is a criminal offence immediately you pass under a gantry, and there is no concept of a grace period in the Act.

The Regulations introduce the concept of a grace period, but this concept conflicts with the Act.

Any conflict between an Act and Regulations means the Regulations are void to the extent of the conflict.
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Except that the Act does not speak of gantries at which a payment cannot be made. Criminal clauses being strictly interpreted will be a bitch for SANRAL on this issue of s27(5) - what is the "place for the payment of toll". For etolling to happen the statute has to be vague which does not bode well.
The only possible way of interpreting the setup would be that it would be an offence to go to SANRALs offices and refuse to pay after the expiry of all of the periods of time.

There is a wonderful memo on this issue that I am sure will end up surfacing in one of the dozen or so inevitable legal challenges.
 
IzZzy said:
Exactly. There is a conflict between the Act and the Regulations.

The Act says it is a criminal offence immediately you pass under a gantry, and there is no concept of a grace period in the Act.

The Regulations introduce the concept of a grace period, but this concept conflicts with the Act.

Any conflict between an Act and Regulations means the Regulations are void to the extent of the conflict.
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I want to punch the shytehead who came up with this, on so many levels this is wrong, I am sure parts violate some rights and privacy, I would double dare any official to inspect my car or impound documents or items that are legally my property, the fact that the law allows you to refuse that your car to be inspected or searched and then following the necessarily actions required by law.

They have basically given these moron's law enforcement rights, and it's clear they have not been trained how to work with the public or how to use these regulations, with out violating peoples rights and privacy, I do see this is a draft, for the life of me can't find the final one, working on the assumption this one being correct.

http://savrala.co.za/wp-content/upl...-and-National-Roads-Act-Regulations-Draft.pdf

Note the grace periods sanral is purposely ignoring that part as it sees fit, according to it, 60 days before they can do some thing to extend of send threatening letters, the act allows for other sections of the law, and it means it has to provide another 30 days before proceeding, and if you want to give them a FU, dispute the account, they can't proceed until the dispute has been resolved.



6. (1) Where in any prosecution or process in terms of the Act, it is necessary
to prove who the driver or user of a vehicle was, it shall be presumed, in the
absence of evidence to the contrary, that such vehicle was driven or used by
the owner thereof.

Where is the not guilty until proven otherwise, you being treated like a criminal from the get go.The minister that approved this needs to publicly executed, "sorry your not guilty ? well the presumption was contrary to proof....."
 
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Just had a thought after reading the SANRAL act posts. If you drive on the sections without gantries (eg Atterbury to Rigel), you are still breaking the Law for you are traveling on a toll road without paying. Are they going to arrest those people as well? This is if you apply the act to the word. :wtf:

This is an interesting...... discrepancy. :whistle:
 
creeper said:
Just had a thought after reading the SANRAL act posts. If you drive on the sections without gantries (eg Atterbury to Rigel), you are still breaking the Law for you are traveling on a toll road without paying. Are they going to arrest those people as well? This is if you apply the act to the word. :wtf:

This is an interesting...... discrepancy. :whistle:
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It's only an offence to drive past a toll booth / gantry and not pay.
 
IzZzy said:
It's only an offence to drive past a toll booth / gantry and not pay.
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So. If I drive on a toll road, take a detour on a farm road past the toll booth and get onto the toll road again, I'm not breaking the law :D
 
creeper said:
So. If I drive on a toll road, take a detour on a farm road past the toll booth and get onto the toll road again, I'm not breaking the law :D
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As long as the exit you take to the farm road is valid. It is an offence to enter/exit national roads at places which are not designated entrances/exits.
 
I also received my invoice in the mail today, for 3 - 7 December 2013. According to me, that's more than 39 days after the "violation". Also, had no photos, it said "page 1 of 2", but page 2 is not there... Epic fail
 
If i remember correctly there's a pass outside of tsitsikamma that was left to ruin and eventually closed. That road bypassed the toll gate. Wonder why.
 
Garyvdh said:
Somebody else pointed out that there should actually be at least 8 photos... one for each Gantry pass.
There are actually only three with all of this paper.
Time to write them a registered letter asking for more proof....
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Yes!
 
We received no invoices at all .... only an e-mail from the VPC entitled "handover".

Why no initial invoice??
 
Also received 2 invoices today from VPC, both for R11.49. Must be paid today for discount. On the one the the discounted amount is R4,60 and the other one R4,49. Both of them was the same gantry.
 
Didn't get an invoice yet, but got an account statement from them for R13.41.
 
Got my invoice today - which, strangely, is the same day that the discount expires. Weirdly, I didn't get a picture of the car included... Guess I can make a "representation" and get the photographic evidence.

Edit: Also, I don't like the fact that there is no way to tell when they sent the invoice. As we know, by law, they need to send the invoice out within 32 days - how can I verify this happened?

Additionally, am I doing something stupid here:

drove under the gantry (Kiewiet) on the 3rd December 2013 - full cost to alternate user R13.41 (Class A2 vehicle):

invoice date: 2013/12/17
30 days hence: 2014/01/16 (so SANRAL has given me one day leeway)
With 60% discount: R13.41*0.4 = R5.36
Invoice Discount Total: R5.41 ?????




UserZ said:
Didn't get an invoice yet, but got an account statement from them for R13.41.
Click to expand...
 
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Also received 2 letters for the same total, coincidentally on the day that the 60% discount expired, in plain unmarked, undated envelopes. One was an account, and the other was a 'tax invoice' which listed the gantries with dates and times. No pictures though. Sigh. Guess I'm writing another registered letter requesting the proof before I'll pay them.
 
I got an account today, R535, from 3rd till the 6th December.... At this rate I will owe them over R2k a month.
And the date to qualify for the discount was 2 days ago.
But then I thought, if I just dont pay, I save a lot of money....hahahahaha
 
Received my first SANRAL paperwork on the 21st, some 4 days after the 30 day discount lapsed.

It's just funny how the 'Correspondence' for the VPC handover, the 'Account Statement' and the 'Copy Tax Invoice' have different issue dates on them, come in different envelopes and yet they all magically appear in your PO Box on the same day.

Either SAPO is really k@k at delivering mail, or somebody is very good at hiding when they actually mailed something.
VPC mail address is in Centurion, the envelope return address is in Roodepoort and I'm in Centurion. So where does this spam actually originate and why so long to travel a max of 50km?
I'll have to mail myself a letter from Centurion and Roodepoort to see how long it actually takes.

The envelopes have no date stamps on them, so it's easy for these tw@ts to say they mailed the stuff on time instead of leaving it till the last minute to ensure they have the maximum 'fear' impact on non-registered users.

Way to go idiots. Efficiency at its best... NOT!

P. S. Why no photos? Is my car that ugly, or are you just censoring my middle finger in the pics?
 
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