SONA 2021

Vrotappel said:
Mechanization is a huge once off cost that will pay back over a long time. No wonder it is being embraced all over the world.
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Automating cheap labour out of a job usually results in having to hire expensive labour to look after the automation.
 
/dev/null said:
Automating cheap labour out of a job usually results in having to hire expensive labour to look after the automation.
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Skilled labour to look after the automation yes, however instead of a large unskilled workforce, you now have small skilled one.
 
Vrotappel said:
That's what SAA did is it not? Bought aircraft, run out of our money, sold the aircraft, then leased them back, whilst the death spiral continues.

Was it not the ANC that destroyed the SAA and other SOEs with their great transformative ideas?

Heck it went so well we must continue down this path.
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Vrotappel Airlines. Go for it.
 
rambo919 said:
The only way forward I see at this point is small scale collectivization where the members actually own the land and are independent of the state both in terms of funding and legal power.

But for that to become a reality people would need to start giving up on the unsustainable dream of everyone having separate houses and separate vehicles and etc. Spacious compounds are a much better utilization of land than a ever increasing sprawl and private transport needs to be in part replaced with better public transport.

You don't need wakanda to fix anything.
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Oh dear
 
ilikepi said:
Skilled labour to look after the automation yes, however instead of a large unskilled workforce, you now have small skilled one.
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Or hiring somebody to deliver services that you can yell and shout at is the job is not done correctly. Effectively somebody else's skilled person arrives. If they're not sufficiently skilled, never use them again. No CCMA headaches etc. Evil.
 
Sollie said:
Or hiring somebody to deliver services that you can yell and shout at is the job is not done correctly. Effectively somebody else's skilled person arrives. If they're not sufficiently skilled, never use them again. No CCMA headaches etc. Evil.
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isn't that the issue with tenderpreneurs? :ROFL:
 
CataclysmZA said:
But hey, surviving on R174 a day at the current national rate doesn't seem like it's doable especially with everything else under the sun increasing. Doubling that would provide economic relief to millions across the country who work for R21.69 an hour.
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FACT: The current minimum wage is still far higher (more than double, in fact) than what old-age pensioners are expected to survive on. No housing, no subsidies, no fringe benefits, no free meals, nor medical aid. Let that sink in for a minute ...

Almost R4K per month is also better than getting R0.00.
 
Supervan II said:
FACT: The current minimum wage is still far higher (more than double, in fact) than what old-age pensioners are expected to survive on. No housing, no subsidies, no fringe benefits, no free meals, nor medical aid. Let that sink in for a minute ...
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I'm well aware of this. While it is a problem, most pensioners don't contribute to the local economy in the same that the younger workforce does, especially for unskilled labour.

Tackle one issue at a time to make it stick.
 
Economists may not know much. But we know one thing very well: how to produce surpluses and shortages. Do you want a surplus? Have the government legislate a minimum price that is above the price that would otherwise prevail. That is what we have done at one time or another to produce surpluses of wheat, of sugar, of butter, of many other commodities. Do you want a shortage? Have the government legislate a maximum price that is below the price that would otherwise prevail. — Milton Friedman

The same principle applies to labour with caveats, set a minimum above the price that would otherwise prevail and you get surplus of unemployment. Do the opposite and you get a shortage of unemployment.

Minimum wages make employers hire less people, maximum wages make employers hire everyone they can find because many times more bodies increases productivity.
 
Vrotappel said:
The real issue we face is the issue of ideology. Unfortunately minimum wages falls on the side of that ideology that destroys countries. Look at Venezuela and see how the regular hiking of the minimum wage still sees them poorer every month.
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There are successful countries with good minimum wage. Minimum wage is a symptom and not a cause.
 
ForceFate said:
There are successful countries with good minimum wage. Minimum wage is a symptom and not a cause.
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This is true, Australia is a good example to use here, minimum wage is high and you can make a good living doing fairly unskilled work (waitering or bartending, etc), however, the flipside to this coin is tipping culture is non-existent, what you get paid as your wage is what you earn, and employers employ the bare minimum amount of staff they can and the staff actually work very hard for their wage because they are doing the work of what 4 of our staff would be doing, very different labour culture to ours here.
 
Malema's response to the SONA is quite aggressive. A speech purposed to cast public doubt into Ramaphosa's presidency.

Aimed at 'WMC'.
Aimed at Ramaphosa.
 
ForceFate said:
There are successful countries with good minimum wage. Minimum wage is a symptom and not a cause.
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rather:
- corrupt communist elite is the disease (or cause)
- desperately impoverished masses is a symptom
- minimum wage is a weak painkiller to try and treat the symptom

it will never succeed at treating the symptom and it fails completely at eradicating the disease, complete and utter waste of time and money
 
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