Structural engineers sign off a requirement?

Lupus said:
That is it, you can moan as much as you want sadly, but you live there and need to follow what they want or need.
If you want it changed you'll need to bring it up with other owners.
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If it applies to everyone, it doesn't sound unreasonable though. However to make it easier for everyone, if the homes are built the same and using the same plans and layouts they could get an engineer to approve or give recommendations that will apply to everyone with the same builds.
 
RedViking said:
If it applies to everyone, it doesn't sound unreasonable though. However to make it easier for everyone, if the homes are built the same and using the same plans and layouts they could get an engineer to approve or give recommendations that will apply to everyone with the same builds.
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Sure that makes sense, but the OP has now said that the cert if 5k it's the actual work that makes it more expensive so it's not the same thing.
When we get more info we find out that the engineer only wants 5k for the cert, but holding it hostage for the work to be done.
 
RedViking said:
How much would be reasonable and what is the size of the property?
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linus-van-pelt-thumb-suck.gif

I'm not an engineer :-P
 
Lupus said:
Sure that makes sense, but the OP has now said that the cert if 5k it's the actual work that makes it more expensive so it's not the same thing.
When we get more info we find out that the engineer only wants 5k for the cert, but holding it hostage for the work to be done.
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The engineer can't give a certificate if the work is not done. He is essentially taking responsibility. If the roof gets damaged the Engineer will be the first person OP drags to court.

Why do you think this is fair ?
 
RedViking said:
The engineer can't give a certificate if the work is not done. He is essentially taking responsibility. If the roof gets damaged the Engineer will be the first person OP drags to court.

Why do you think this is fair ?
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Are you perhaps confusing me for the OP here? I'm telling him pretty much the same thing you are. He needs to follow the rules
 
Lupus said:
linus-van-pelt-thumb-suck.gif

I'm not an engineer :-P
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Well this mindset is typical to the entitled culture from South Africans. People will pay R3000 for 15 minutes with a doctor. R3000 for an hour with a lawyer. R1000 for an hour with a plumber. R500 for 30 minutes with a math tutor. But when it comes to the building industry, architecture and drafting they want it for free. It's a reflection of our countries infrastructure and the poor state of the building industry.
 
Lupus said:
Are you perhaps confusing me for the OP here? I'm telling him pretty much the same thing you are. He needs to follow the rules
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Maybe is misunderstood your comments then. R5000 doesn't sound unreasonable to, he could probably have shopped around for a cheaper engineer, and R15 000 to get the structure of a roof altered or improved also doesn't sound bad considering the cost of material. It's actually on the cheap side considering how cheap labour is. Again , OP can shop around to get something the is quick and cheap.
 
Doom5003 said:
I am looking to install 6 panels, each weighing about 28.8kg.
The managing agency says i am required to have a OHS certificate stating that the roof will be able to handle the extra weight.
The complex was build in 1987, or there about.

I have had some reinforcements done but according to the inspector, it isnt enough.
But considering I just recently had about 30 or so tiles be replaced on the roof and nobody fell through, how can the roof not be structurally secure?

To do what the inspector requires would cost between R15,000 and R20,000.
I didnt do this at my previous house, free standing, that was build in 1996. And never had the roof moered in on me in the 7 years i lived there.

The panels will be mounted flat on the tiles, so no added structure.
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Doom5003 said:
Have already paid the engineer the R5000.00
It is the reinforcements that are needed that i find to be unreasonable.
i am by no means an engineer, but if people weighing more than 60kg can walk and stay on the roof for long periods of time without any damage, then it should be able to easily handle 6 panels.
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Couple of things:
1) Whose roof is it. Are you in a sectional title property or full title property. If it is a full title property, then they need to give you the precise part of their rules that mandates OHS compliance on your own property.

2) Firstly, I don't think people in the building industry weigh in at 60kg :p . Lots of boeps. Secondly, it is taking the mass of the panels and the workers
 
All comes down to this:
Body corporate- usually bunch of geriatrics closed off to change and jealous that some owners will have it better than they
 
RedViking said:
What makes you more knowledgeable than an engineer? Because someone temporary walked on your roof you are suddenly an expert?
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I am an engineer, and to be honest, my job is half getting things to work and the other half is covering my ars@. We know that something will work fine, but because your signature is on something, you over-design it for that 1% chance that things may go south. The worst thing that can happen to an engineer is getting a phone call 20 years in the future and being told to attend a hearing because you signed off on something. You can go to jail and lose your ability to practice engineering anywhere.

When an accident occurs, people and especially corporations, NEED someone to take the blame. Convenient scape goats are guess who? The engineer. So to cover yourself, you add things that would never have been needed in the first place, so that some board in the future can't find a way to throw you under the bus. This is why an engineer on the mine gets close to 3M a year with some 5 years of work experience, because his signature is on everything. The mines, for example, are more than willing to pay him that because when things go south, they have a fall guy.

I was a lead designer for winders at certain mines that carry some 100 mine workers down a shaft, some 1 to 2km underground, and the thing runs 24/7. All the schematics have my name and signature on them. If an accident occurs, I will be called in, even though I am working for a different company doing completely different things.

Will his roof hold the panels? Probably yes. But his signature is on the certificate so he will make the guy pay the 20k to safely cover himself.

I agree with everyone on here, though, he must pay and get the roofing support done. Should have bought a free-standing home if he didn't want to deal with stuff like this.
 
EmmanuelGoldstein said:
All comes down to this:
Body corporate- usually bunch of geriatrics closed off to change and jealous that some owners will have it better than they
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Body corporate - all owners of a sectional title.
Trustees - representatives voted in via an AGM by said body corporate, problem is 90% of the owners don't go to meetings therefore the same 4 people get voted in and everyone resents them cause they are probably draconic or yada yada.
Managing Agent - Hired by the trustees on behalf of the body corporate to run affairs in the complex, billing and such.

There's a bit more info for you ;-).
 
denmendez65 said:
I am an engineer, and to be honest, my job is half getting things to work and the other half is covering my ars@. We know that something will work fine, but because your signature is on something, you over-design it for that 1% chance that things may go south. The worst thing that can happen to an engineer is getting a phone call 20 years in the future and being told to attend a hearing because you signed off on something. You can go to jail and lose your ability to practice engineering anywhere.

When an accident occurs, people and especially corporations, NEED someone to take the blame. Convenient scape goats are guess who? The engineer. So to cover yourself, you add things that would never have been needed in the first place, so that some board in the future can't find a way to throw you under the bus. This is why an engineer on the mine gets close to 3M a year with some 5 years of work experience, because his signature is on everything. The mines, for example, are more than willing to pay him that because when things go south, they have a fall guy.

I was a lead designer for winders at certain mines that carry some 100 mine workers down a shaft, some 1 to 2km underground, and the thing runs 24/7. All the schematics have my name and signature on them. If an accident occurs, I will be called in, even though I am working for a different company doing completely different things.

Will his roof hold the panels? Probably yes. But his signature is on the certificate so he will make the guy pay the 20k to safely cover himself.

I agree with everyone on here, though, he must pay and get the roofing support done. Should have bought a free-standing home if he didn't want to deal with stuff like this.
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Free hold house, free standing just refers to a building that's not attached to anything. You can get plenty of free standing units in a complex, but they'd be sectional title.
 
The main reason for the interference is because basically in a complex the managing agents are responsible for all exterior work and related insurance (along with a mix of other items like geysers etc).
 
RedViking said:
Well it is clear that you are more knowledgeable than the structural engineer. Grab the relevant SANS (10400?) code, get the information of your roof structure, truss type , truss bottom and top chord sizes, point loads, bearing on the walls. Compare it to the SANS code and show the engineer that you know more than him and that he needs to give you the certificate. I would also report him to the engineering council as he misleaded you and wanted to do you financial harm.
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Sounds a bit complicated. Maybe you could check what live load, distributed or point load as well as dead load the roof has to be designed for in the standards. Or ask the engineer.
 
animal531 said:
The main reason for the interference is because basically in a complex the managing agents are responsible for all exterior work and related insurance (along with a mix of other items like geysers etc).
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Depends on the complex. If it is a sectional title, like a block of flats, then that usually is the case.

However in other complexes (such as mine), it is an HOA. There is common property like the roads, walls, playground and pool that is collectively owned, but each property is owned fully by each owner meaning the responsibility lies with them. I need to get permission for aesthetic changes, but other than that it is my problem.
 
Doom5003 said:
I have requested the rules from them to confirm that they are stipulated.
If not then ill ask them why it is needed, like for insurance purpose etc.
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Is your property Full Title or Sectional Title?
If Sectional Title, you're in for a world of pain.
If the not, just fit the panels and tell the HoA/Managing Agent to take a hike/sue you/report you to CSOS.
 
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