Subservient/Submissive Attitude

[DJ...]

So if you a boss of a large firm, and you call up a guy who works in a cubical, would you want him to say "good morning sir" or "Yo, whats up dude?"

Neither - in the working world we use our names once we have have been formally introduced...

 

[Jewelbox]

I don't come accross this "bending over and sorry" from blacks in Pretoria.........
Here you have to be careful or you will get a snot klap!

 

[Pooky]

um, 1stly, the only black person to have called me "boss" is my gardener... it's sorta of a sing of respect. My maid calls me master, which just shows she's is employed by me, and a level of respect is needed... So if you a boss of a large firm, and you call up a guy who works in a cubical, would you want him to say "good morning sir" or "Yo, whats up dude?"

I simply can't see why this is getting debated?

You're 17, and your gardener is calling you boss, and your maid master?

If you think that's a sign of respect then you're deluded.
It's just horrible when people call each other that. It's demeaning to themselves and they say it as if you are better than them. Yes, they might work for you, but theres no need for them to act like servants.

 

[I am Penguin]

but theres no need for them to act like servants.

If he/she is a servant then thats what he/she is. I leave it up to them to decide what they want to call me. Then measure the level of mutual respect and then decide whether they need my employment. That simple. Effective right throught the bussiness world. Its a question of knowing your place. Yeah, a servant working for me at home is still bussiness.

What I hate is when people are submissive just because they want something and there is clearly no respect.

 

[scotty777]

You're 17, and your gardener is calling you boss, and your maid master?

If you think that's a sign of respect then you're deluded.
It's just horrible when people call each other that. It's demeaning to themselves and they say it as if you are better than them. Yes, they might work for you, but theres no need for them to act like servants.

pooky, i did not tell either to call me master/boss, they did it on there own accord. Just like when I talk to someone older then me I refer to then as Sir or Miss. I never ask if i could address then more informally, I don't know if that wrong, but that is just how i refer to them. I don't grovel at there feet though, i just show that they are my elder and they deserve respect.

However, because you being such a little girl about this, I told my made and gardener to address me by my christian name yesterday and today respectfully. However, my name is rather english and difficult to pronounce, so they struggle to say it, which annoys me.

It seems like you've got it in your head that I'm a snobbish rich kid, which really isn't true. However, I'll let you think what you want about me, I don't care, as long as I know that I do my best to be respectful and the people around me know that I'm respectful. I don't even address my friends parents by their 1st name, I always say "Mr so and so"...

 

[Crusader]

To be honest I haven't seen this at all. What I did notice was the arrogance amongst the youth. They seem to have no respect for themselves or others and you shouldn't even try to correct them.

One example is a teenager that was swearing to high heavens in front of a shopping center, for no apparent reason. When I asked him to stop and move on he became aggresive and told me that it's his f-ing street and I can't tell him what to do.

We are ALL equal and should respect everyone and act appropriately.

 

[Picard]

To be honest I haven't seen this at all. What I did notice was the arrogance amongst the youth. They seem to have no respect for themselves or others and you shouldn't even try to correct them.

One example is a teenager that was swearing to high heavens in front of a shopping center, for no apparent reason. When I asked him to stop and move on he became aggresive and told me that it's his f-ing street and I can't tell him what to do.

We are ALL equal and should respect everyone and act appropriately.

When a Tukkie (UP) walks down a street he acts as if the street belongs to him.
If an Ikey (UCT) walks down a street he acts as if the street doesn't belong to anyone.
If a Matie (US) walks down a street he acts as if he doesn't give a damn to whom the street belongs.

 

[blunomore]

To be honest I haven't seen this at all. What I did notice was the arrogance amongst the youth. They seem to have no respect for themselves or others and you shouldn't even try to correct them.

One example is a teenager that was swearing to high heavens in front of a shopping center, for no apparent reason. When I asked him to stop and move on he became aggresive and told me that it's his f-ing street and I can't tell him what to do.

We are ALL equal and should respect everyone and act appropriately.

True. I live close to a college and the students would just walk you off your feet if you did not move or make way for them every single time they pass you. There is no attitude of "I'll move a little and you'll move a little and we'll make space for each other."

I get a sense of absolute arrogance. Me being me, sometimes I just do not budge.

 

[I am Penguin]

True. I love close to a college and the students would just walk you off your feet if you did not move or make way for them every single time they pass you. There is no attitude of "I'll move a little and you'll move a little and we'll make space for each other."

I get a sense of absolute arrogance. Me being me, sometimes I just do not budge.

You should slap the arrogant pigs.
Serious now, Looking at the youth in UK (and elsewhere) and the disgusting behavioural attitude of the youth, I am starting to believe that the world is fast moving in a downward spiral to disaster. No respect and AFAIAC it comes down to the fact of governments dissallowing parental dicipline. A good hiding at the right time is all that most children need, with some just a stern voice or even a specific whisper will do. All comes down to selfrepect and respect towards others. The one cannot do well without the other.

 

[Sackboy]

pooky, i did not tell either to call me master/boss, they did it on there own accord. Just like when I talk to someone older then me I refer to then as Sir or Miss. I never ask if i could address then more informally, I don't know if that wrong, but that is just how i refer to them. I don't grovel at there feet though, i just show that they are my elder and they deserve respect.

However, because you being such a little girl about this, I told my made and gardener to address me by my christian name yesterday and today respectfully. However, my name is rather english and difficult to pronounce, so they struggle to say it, which annoys me.

It seems like you've got it in your head that I'm a snobbish rich kid, which really isn't true. However, I'll let you think what you want about me, I don't care, as long as I know that I do my best to be respectful and the people around me know that I'm respectful. I don't even address my friends parents by their 1st name, I always say "Mr so and so"...

Have you though of adopting a Xhosa name that's easier for them to say?

 

[scotty777]

Have you though of adopting a Xhosa name that's easier for them to say?

no i haven't, hmmm, i'll look into that . ha ha, I can pronounce Zulu word fairly well, so I'm open to suggestions

edit:
How about Umdali?

 

[ant101]

Interesting thread guys. But at the end of the day this is all just a thread, and we all should do more.

Black people are equal to white people and they should not make like they are not. They are just promoting racism, they should be proud and look you in the eye as your equal.

First of all, it cultural thing that black people sometimes don't look you in the eye! They do feel equal! they are just respecting you. So this is a wonderful thing, but it's first an foremost cultural. It is important to understand these things, and it s not your fault you don't, but a journey of understanding has to start somewhere right ?
Secondly all this ranting is interesting, but at then end of the day it's up to us to change and understand things for the better around us and it does start with you, ...not the dude next door to you, ...or other people.

For the past month I have stepped out of my comfort zone and did a Xhosa course, which touched on some cultural issues too.
All I can say is "wow!" It does open a whole new world of understanding. And it is amazing to witness some of the people involved in great circles of change in the communities around us. Really made me feel like a slacker! But I realised if you want to be part of South Africa you can't go through it with blinkers on, for your culture only.
The course was a lot of fun, and it even covered topics like asking for a xhosa name, to a xhosa person. Might sound arb., but there is logic behind it.

The teacher craig is an absolute master at how to teach things and the evening class was a load of fun
Be a part of something bigger and start your own journey, check it out:
http://www.learnxhosa.com/about.htm

Serious guys, I would recommend this to anyone , it explains some ( but not all) of the annoyances or misconceptions we sometimes have over what we might perceive as negative. I learn't there were quite a few, and my learning not going to stop just cause class stopped.

 

[I am Penguin]

Should we then spend all time to learn all 12 languages and cultures?


English is a global language, most literature, scientific discoveries, patents, world wide have all been written in English, and we now live in a global century - why not all stick to English?

It is more efficient, more effective, and less effort.

eff-off to all other languages!

Very debateble. It is widespread, accepted and well known but hardly claimable as more efficent or effective than other languages.

 

[Vinia]

no i haven't, hmmm, i'll look into that . ha ha, I can pronounce Zulu word fairly well, so I'm open to suggestions

edit:
How about Umdali?

How about no. Try Zondilwe. That seems like an apt name they'd want for you, judging by the relationship you've described. Maybe they can have a naming ceremony for you as well.


I call the women who clean my home & my office either by their first names or by their surnames, preceded with Ma which is equivalent to Mrs, eg Ma Mkhize is Mrs Mkhize. I asked them what they prefer to be called & I said they are welcome to call me by my first name. As long as they do their jobs well & we are civil to each other, I see no need for bowing & scraping. I respect the jobs those two women do, because they make my life easier. I don't need anything more for my ego from them.

Some people don't want to be called madam, boss, master, director, ceo or minister etc to feel important. You might meet people like that & maybe become such a person when you finish high school and start working. Your servants as you call them are just continuing that status quo set by your parents and that is not your doing or responsibility. What do you call them in return? Girl & Boy?

 

[brixton tower]

This is quite a delicate topic I'm sure but:

I find it incredibly annoying the submissiveness that black people tend to show towards white people, I really find it totally uneccesary.

This whole "madam" business and the bending over and saying sorry all the time really gets on my nerves.

Black people are equal to white people and they should not make like they are not. They are just promoting racism, they should be proud and look you in the eye as your equal.

I hope this thread isn't regarded as racist as that was not the intent at all. Has anyone noticed this at all, and also why is it that people are like this?

Massive generalization but I think this has more to do with economic status and necessarily feeling inferior to the "stupid mlungu" in the back office. Most of my friends are black and professional and they don't have to hold back to no whitey...on the other name if your name was Dora or Johannes and you depended on the good will of white people there's no way in hell that you'll speak up- and that is not exclusive to black people but anywhere in the world.