Table(t) Mountain

Why are Vespa scooters so desirable? Why do people pay so much more for them when much cheaper higher spec scooters made in China and India are readily available? You can even get scooters that look almost exactly like Vespa. I want a Vespa scooter and wish I could afford one. I don't want any of the much cheaper alternatives. With Apple it is the same ... only difference - but a key one - is that iPads are currently not more expensive but do provide the "Vespa" experience ... and even if they were to become far more expensive (like Vespa) they will still be the tablet to won (just like Vespa).

That may be your perception, hell it could be the world perception that iPads are so much better than Android, I can only say personally its the other way around. I dont want the next iPad, in my eye's its crap because it limits how I can use it. Sure I have an iPad(Bought it last year when they came out) but I barely use it because the OS is crap and limiting like hell.

Example: Friday night I was channel hopping on the TV and catched a music vid playing on the 5FM show on TV 3. I garbed my Android tablet to find the song info using Soundhound. in 4 seconds flat I got the band name Kongos and song "I'm only Jokeing" so I hoped onto Youtube to play it from the start as I only caught the end.

On Youtube there was a link to the Band's website with the offer to download the song for free so naturally I clicked and sure there it was an offer to get 5 tracks fro free. I decided to download it, and found a lovely 40 meg zip file in my downloads folder. hoped over to my file manager and extracted it to a folder in my Music library Called Kongos, so now I can listen to the other tracks using my tablets media player. After listening to the songs I decided to keep 3 of them and moved them to my NAS using WiFi + samba.

Now in the iOS world I would have had to stop at the Youtube section and get up to go to my PC to do the rest, and that is the reason I like my Android Tablet, not because of looks or design, but the pure fact that I can actually use the device for much more than a glorified news reader.
 
Now in the iOS world I would have had to stop at the Youtube section and get up to go to my PC to do the rest, and that is the reason I like my Android Tablet, not because of looks or design, but the pure fact that I can actually use the device for much more than a glorified news reader.
I'm downloading it now (on my you-know-what) - thanks. :)
 
Elimentals, I hear you loud and clear :-) . You know what you know and therefore Android is your first choice ... understood. The issue here - and that is what the BGR article states - is that the buying public out there sees it differently (wrongly or rightly) and that Google and the Android tablet OEM's need to do something differently to change the perceptions/sentiment out there. And I agree. They need to make Android tablets stand out and be seen as equal or better. The buying public need to be convinced. What will convince them? Price? At present the Android tablets come in at the same or higher prices (not substantially lower than the "always expensive/overpriced Apples). I argue that more than price is needed. Android need to do something substantial very differently to attract attention. That is what the BGR article author is also saying.
 
/OT/
Just to satisfy my curiosity . . . [over] 9 million iPads sold last quarter. 91 days in a quarter means almost 99,000 ipads are being sold per day. That is a staggering number in my mind. Just thinking about the infrastructure necessary to keep up with that sort of demand. Kind of makes me wish I was an Apple stockholder. :eek:

Personally I wish I bought stock back in 2000 as well, but you have to wonder how long before the value collapse.

Talking about stock I just seen http://gizmodo.com/5829284/could-apple-be-the-worlds-most-valuable-company-without-steve-jobs

Could Apple Be the World’s Most Valuable Company Without Steve Jobs?

Fanboys are breathless from so much ****ing today, paralyzed by genital turgidity because Apple briefly surpassed ExxonMobil as the most valued company in the stock market. Right now, Exxon is still number one at 352.9 billion compared to Apple's 346.74 billion.

But even if Apple's stock market capitalization were actually higher than Exxon's, would it be a more valuable company? The answer is probably no.
The rise of Apple

It's amazing that a company like Apple has been able to reach a giant like ExxonMobil in market capitalization. A couple decades ago it was just an overpriced beige box manufacturer with an obsolete operating system. I remember because I was a Mac fanboy then, when everyone was using Windows and Michael Dell said that the company should be sold as scrap and the money returned to its shareholders.

Then Steve came back.

After the iPod, Mac OS X, the iPhone, and iPad, Apple has become the number one technology company in the world. Bar none. There's no company with better style, design sense, attention to detail, marketing and manufacturing precision. Apple is the best, and that's why most consumers crave its products. That's why the rest of the industry follows Cupertino too, even into entirely new markets.

It was Steve Jobs' unique vision and his strict command of a brilliant troop of engineers that made—and still makes—it all possible. Together, they created the future. Now Apple is the new Microsoft, and they control it all—from the hardware to the operating systems to the apps their operating systems run.
The energy behemoth

ExxonMobil represents the past, a much-hated American multinational that started with John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil company. The largest of the oil companies and the company with the largest market capitalization in the world right now. They own oil fields, natural gas fields, liquified natural gas factories, tankers and gas stations all across the planet. Some even say that, together with the other big six oil companies, ExxonMobil runs the world.

They also make a lot more money than Apple. In the first quarter of 2011, ExxonMobil made a $10.65 billion in profit. Apple made $6 billion.

You could say that there's little vision at ExxonMobil, that the company's money comes out of the ground. There is no Steve Jobs, just liquid gold. Pump it and those billions will keep coming in.

Even in the middle of oil scarcity, they profit. Prices just go up, and that's the end of it. And because they own this whole energy business thing, and unless someone comes up with cold fusion in a can, they could probably keep doing this for several decades.
Where would I put my money

So, if I could invest money in the companies I write about, which one would be my pick?

As much as I hate the oil guys, I'd pick ExxonMobil for one single reason: They don't have the invaluable advantage and the problem that Apple has.

ExxonMobil doesn't depend on the man with the vision, the Wizard of Oz, the snake oil salesman, the amazingly brilliant ******* that is Steve Jobs.

I used to think that Apple could live without Jobs. Back in 2008 I wrote about how he was preparing his farewell and why I thought that, if he left, the company would be just fine. I was wrong.

Back then, investors disagreed with me. When we broke the news of the return of his cancer back in 2008, Apple lost billions in just a few minutes of trading. Back then, Apple and its friends at CNBC tried to deny the news that later was confirmed by Jobs himself.

The investors were right, and now I'm convinced that Apple can't be Apple without Steve.

Steve Jobs' health is probably not going to improve. Eventually—hopefully later rather than sooner—he will be gone. And that will be the beginning of the end for Apple, I'm afraid. Just like it happened with Microsoft and Sony, the company will enter its decline. It will not disappear or crash. It will not go down right away. I'm sure that there's plenty of magical stuff in Apple labs now. But it won't last forever.

But even during the past few months I have noticed the slipping. Even while they made their best quarter in history, there are signs that execution and vision at the company are failing—from the typography in their ads to the faults of Lion and some of the design decisions in iOS.
The future

So, ask yourself the same question: Would you put your stock in a company that can print money even when the oil fields are burning or in money that depends on a genius that may not be with us at any given time?

What is really the most valuable company, ExxonMobil or Apple?
 
Interesting read Elimentals. I also often wonder about the post-Jobs Apple. That can have a huge influence on the future of all the things we are debating. I'm sure Apple and Jobs are well aware of this and am working on a plan. They know the importance of this issue as well as the writer of the article.
 
I'm happy with the build quality of my Galaxy Tab P1, and it looks even better in the Samsung leather folio cover. But... I still use an iPhone for day to day calls, and navigation (TomTom) but everything else I am doing on my TAB :)
 
I can say one thing, even if I hate Steve Jobs as much as Bill Gates, not for what they did but how they went around in doing it, you have to admit that was it not for them the world would probably a lot bleaker on the technology front.

Bill Gates, had a vision to bring PC's to every person and he really did get there, why I hate the way he did it was Microsoft killed competition left right and center from spreading FUD to Microsoft Tax to secret deals and buyouts.

Same with Steve, I dont think the mobile world would have been the same today if it wasn't for his vision. Even Google knew that, that is why they where working with Apple to bring the iPhones to the public in 2005, they even shared staff and had headhunting agreements between the two of them. Android only came into the picture when Apple kicked Google out and forced them to buy the little start-up Android Inc with Andy Rubin at the helm. What I dont like about iOS is the way they use the courts to fight Android and not just let the public pick the device they want.

Competition should be won by innovation, not in courts and with blackmail.
 
Elimentals, the problem I have with above argument, and many similar ones on this forum, is that pro-Google contributors build their arguments on the assumption that Google is good ("Do no evil") and that they play clean/fair. I would argue that that is not the case. Enough has been written about Google's practices to show that they will - like all the other companies accused of playing dirty - do whatever is necessary to protect their core business. Now keep in mind that Android is not Google's core business but a defensive strategy to protect the core, which is information and well targeted ads (based on that information). They will therefore come across as benevolent when it comes to Android, but watch what they will do when competitors trespass into their core area of business. How I see it ... no angels here ... all devils.
 
Elimentals, the problem I have with above argument, and many similar ones on this forum, is that pro-Google contributors build their arguments on the assumption that Google is good ("Do no evil") and that they play clean/fair. I would argue that that is not the case. Enough has been written about Google's practices to show that they will - like all the other companies accused of playing dirty - do whatever is necessary to protect their core business. Now keep in mind that Android is not Google's core business but a defensive strategy to protect the core, which is information and well targeted ads (based on that information). They will therefore come across as benevolent when it comes to Android, but watch what they will do when competitors trespass into their core area of business. How I see it ... no angels here ... all devils.

True, Google could turn around and try to become evil but this is where the very foundation of Android would come back and bite them. You see the problem is that Android is Open Source and even if Google is at the helm of Open Handset Alliance (True owners of Android) they could just as easy kick them out or fork it to something else.

Example OpenOffice, even with it being bought by Oracle, it did not help them much when they decided to change the rule of the game (Bring in commercial licenses) as the code was Open Source. It did not take much for a new fork to appear and the main developers of OpenOffice to move to it, see LibreOffice. Even Ubuntu will now move to Libre pre-installed instead of OpenOffice.

So yes, Google can go around and become "Evil" like Apple or Microsoft, but when they do that, HTC, Samsung and the other members of OHA can just turn around and vote kick them. Game Over.
 
True, Google could turn around and try to become evil ...

There are many that argue/claim that Google is already evil in their core space. Anti-competitive behaviour claims are more and more made against Google when it comes to their ad ranking systems and buyouts of competitors and competing systems. No angels here Elimentals. Google's real playground is just not where we hang out every day. We hang around where Apple plays its core game and they then look like the meanies. I trust none of these corporations. They must of necessity do whatever it takes to make money for their shareholders and anything that comes in their way will be disposed of, also using the judicial system when it serves this purpose best.
 
Elimentals, what would you do - if you were Google or one of the OEM's - to substantially boost Android TABLET sales to dethrone the iPad?
 
As I stated in my OP should Google not rather give its OEM's more freedom with Android rather than less (ICS onwards)? Retain certification within a wider playground, or different levels of certification? The OEM's wouldn't want to break away completely (no certification) but they also need to differentiate their offerings enough to make an impact in the market.

I eagerly await to see what Amazon is going to bring to this story. They have much to offer and may be able to get away with more without losing certification.
 
Elimentals, what would you do - if you were Google or one of the OEM's - to substantially boost Android TABLET sales to dethrone the iPad?

Make it cheaper, but that in itself is a problem. Apple with their buying power buy out suppliers of parts causing the competition to go for second class or more expensive parts. Guess end of the day we will just have to wait for the new factories to get volumes up.

Sidenote: that is why Apple is gunning for Samsung as Samsung denied Apple access to the new A9 32nm arm chips.
 
Don't you think Amazon might get it right? I believe Amazon to be the key that will unlock Android on tablets. Probably why there are rumours that Apple wants to buy Barnes & Noble.
 
Another option to getting Android cheaper is to cut out middle fat.

Example: ASUS lands the Eee Pad in SA for R2500 but you can not get it for less than R4000 with all the middle men taking a piece of the pie.

In that line I think your kindle option might be a key as well, as you can get a tablet from Amazon directly.
 
Elimentals, the problem with making it cheaper is also that the product then become undesirable. There is a sweet spot price, and currently that is where Apple sits. Cheap enough to be affordable, and expensive enough to remain desirable plus maintain healthy profit margins. Tough to get in. Only a player that can substantially cross subsidise a high quality tablet and offer it for less (at a loss or very small profit margin) can dethrone Apple. That is Microsoft's game.
 
If MS and Nokia put their heads and designers together, and the N9 design is anything to go by, they may hit the tablet market with a bang.
 
Elimentals, the problem with making it cheaper is also that the product then become undesirable. There is a sweet spot price, and currently that is where Apple sits. Cheap enough to be affordable, and expensive enough to remain desirable plus maintain healthy profit margins. Tough to get in. Only a player that can substantially cross subsidise a high quality tablet and offer it for less (at a loss or very small profit margin) can dethrone Apple. That is Microsoft's game.

Price is everything. If you sell the same standard as say the ASUS Eee Pad for R2500 @ Look and Listen and Incredible Connection people would want it less?

Personally I recon if you do that the shops wont be able to keep stock for the 1st 4 months.
 
Price is everything. If you sell the same standard as say the ASUS Eee Pad for R2500 @ Look and Listen and Incredible Connection people would want it less?

Personally I recon if you do that the shops wont be able to keep stock for the 1st 4 months.

Now imagine what is going to happen the day Vodacom/MTN/etc offers iPads on cell contracts. Stampedes at Game Stores before Christmas. Apple's got some serious spare juice that it can tap into when needed.
 
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