Taking A Knee

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A spectacular own goal....


How the NFL Lost to Trump
A day after fearless ESPN commentator Stephen A. Smith pronounced Trump the victor in the national anthem controversy, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell confirmed the verdict with a memo sounding what is sure to be a messy, divisive retreat by the league.

“Like many of our fans,” Goodell wrote, “we believe that everyone should stand for the National Anthem.” Now he tells us.
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konfab said:
He knew full well what the consequences would be by challenging authority and was willing to actually face them. That is a far greater test of courage than kneeling at a game with zero consequences.
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They both take courage, the one guy is in front of a million people and the other had the memo leaked to the media, he didn't send it to the media himself.

Their work platforms are/were also both different, one is an office environment and another is a sports field
 
STS said:
I ask you for a link, you posted a link, then you mentioned after you posted the link you heard it mentioned in an interview. There is an interview going on for an hour on Youtube between these two, I can't watch that :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NOSD0XK0r8
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Right, and I can't watch a whole hour to find the right spot where he mentions that just because you asked. Sorry man.

I don't think it matters terribly much either way to be honest. If the NFL players were protesting some kind of workplace injustice that was affecting the players themselves then obviously their behaviour with respect to their continued employment would have to be interpreted in a different light.
 
Xarog said:
Right, and I can't watch a whole hour to find the right spot where he mentions that just because you asked. Sorry man.

I don't think it matters terribly much either way to be honest. If the NFL players were protesting some kind of workplace injustice that was affecting the players themselves then obviously their behaviour with respect to their continued employment would have to be interpreted in a different light.
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It's okay, I just thought it would have made its way into more articles of it was a driving point, I just don't have the motivation to listen to a talk I have no interest in to find one point that may or may not even be true.

I agree, although people have freedom to protest anything they wish. They are in the public eye far more than James Damore was and have a greater opportunity of being seen by the world
 
oh for crying out aloud what is all this hooplah about with this anthem singing blow hole crap. if you want to sing it, shout it, speak it, kneel, sit, stand, hand on heart, blow a fart, then as far as i'm concerned you can do whatever you want as long as you don't assault the person singing the anthem, blowing the bugle or drumming the drums. i have been watching this whole debacle about this and it is getting way out of hand now. the players of today must respect war veterans of yester year from WW1 and WW2 and the vietnam war etc. i haven't heard any mention of the heroes who ran into the world trade center. the wars of that time are over as far as i'm concerned. if they want to show respect to war heroes then they should be looking at those from today who go to iraq, afghanistan and so on. i'm so sick of hearing about the older lot that most are dead or dying can't hear, can't see, has dimentia, etc. let's all move on to today FFS.
 
STS said:
I agree, although people have freedom to protest anything they wish. They are in the public eye far more than James Damore was and have a greater opportunity of being seen by the world
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They only get paid those ridiculous salaries because people pay to watch them play. If their behaviour costs the business money then they can no longer justify their paychecks. Ratings are down and ticket sales are down because of this nonsense. There's no point trying to protest if it causes everybody to stop paying attention to them.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
The equivalence is nonsense, though. Taking a knee literally does nothing to disrupt anything, while highlighting an issue of great importance.
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Im not interested in their issue of great importance when im watching sport.
 
konfab said:
I think the government should cut all funding to the NFL as it is a waste of money, so I hope you can agree with me on this.
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For sure.

konfab said:
As for free speech, last time I checked, these players don't need a $600 000 dollars worth of security if they want to go and speak at Berkeley. Trump hasn't really done anything to stop them other than tell them that he doesn't like what they are doing.
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That's not true and you know it.

Speaking of universities...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...us-thought-police-squashing-academic-freedom/

But more and more, professors like me are being targeted by a coordinated right-wing campaign to undermine our academic freedom — one that relies on misrepresentation and sometimes outright lying, and often puts us and our students in danger.

..

Hate mail and death threats began to roll in. “I will beat your skull in till there is no tomorrow.” “Soon all you p‑‑‑‑‑s will get exactly what you deserve.” “Do the world a favor, and kill yourself … I’ll help you find death sooner than later.” One called me a “pig f‑‑‑er like Obama,” adding homophobic slurs for good measure.

..

And things aren’t letting up. While noteworthy cases such as Saida Grundy and Zandria Robinson in 2015 gave a glimpse of what was to come, the months since Trump’s election have seen a generalized assault on anti-racist academics. In May, Tommy Curry at Texas A&M was targeted for a years-old podcast; Princeton’s Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor was forced to cancel public events after threats following a commencement speech; and Johnny Eric Williams at Trinity College was targeted and suspended reposting someone else’s words on Facebook. Increasingly, leftist professors are being targeted for “things they never really said.”
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konfab said:
Don't try act as if you care about that basket of deplorables, and last time I checked, they are not the ones telling everyone how badly the US is oppressing them.
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You can't be serious. We're told constantly it's the white working class that rebelled against the 'elites' because of how they've screwed them. They're so badly treated they elected Trump, isn't that how the refrain goes?

And also, you're the one who supports lying to them and gutting their healthcare, not me.

konfab said:
He knew full well what the consequences would be by challenging authority and was willing to actually face them. That is a far greater test of courage than kneeling at a game with zero consequences.
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:crylaugh:

Yeah, Kaepernick has effectively been blackballed from his job, and right-think has been enforced from the bully-pulpit by the president. Players have been subjected to racist abuse all the while, NFL owners threatening to fire players (or actually firing players) for not toeing the line.

But again, I guess it's cool if it happens to someone you don't like. :)
 
Oh, look. The dislike is because the Dear Leader said it must be so. :rolleyes:

DL4GzU9WsAATSUm.jpg
 
[video=youtube_share;CGaBZpa6xqI]https://youtu.be/CGaBZpa6xqI[/video]
Just for OD.
 
Back in the day, when little Leeroy's mum (daddy was whoever wherever) dished out fried chicken, everybody always shouted "Ah take da wing, Ah take da wing!". Clever lil' Leeroy (future NFL player) quickly realised too few wings on da chicken, so he shouted "Ah take da knee, Ah take da knee!" and then promptly robbed his half brothers and sisters of their wings. So one day, in the locker room, somebody handed out fried chicken. Not-so-lil'-anymore ol' Leeroy immediately shouted "Ah take da knee, Ah take da knee!". The rest is history.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Yeah, Kaepernick has effectively been blackballed from his job, and right-think has been enforced from the bully-pulpit by the president. Players have been subjected to racist abuse all the while, NFL owners threatening to fire players (or actually firing players) for not toeing the line.

But again, I guess it's cool if it happens to someone you don't like. :)
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As a 15-year follower of the sport, I call nonsense.

Kaepernick is not a good QB anymore, most certainly not good enough to start for any of the 32 teams. The consensus among industry insiders is that he is at best a back-up and because of this it isn't worth the media scrutiny and hype he will come with. This is even confirmed by a fellow - black - NFL player; LeSean McCoy.

Buffalo Bills running back LeSean McCoy said what sports fans already understood about the alleged “blackballing” of former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick.

It’s not about race. It’s not about the anthem. It’s not about Black Lives Matter or the police. Before any of that other stuff, it’s about football.

“It’s a lot more than just he’s not on the team because he doesn’t want to stand for the national anthem,” McCoy said to ESPN on Thursday. “That may have something to do with it, but I think also it has a lot to do with his play. I’m sure a lot of teams wouldn’t want him as their starting quarterback. That chaos that comes along with it, it’s a lot.”
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“There’s certain players that could be on the team with big distractions, and there’s other players that it’s not good enough or not worth it,” McCoy said. “I think his situation is not good enough to have him on the team with all the attention that comes along with it.
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“People outside of sports don’t really know that,” McCoy said. “They see only one side of a black guy standing up for a good reason [and] the NFL is against him.”

McCoy has a unique perspective on controversial quarterbacks. McCoy was a teammate of former quarterback Michael Vick, who came to the Philadelphia Eagles in 2009 after serving time in prison on dogfighting charges. Why did he get a second chance, while Kaepernick is unemployed? To McCoy, the answer is simple.

“He’s 10 times better than Kaepernick,” McCoy said of Vick. “You’ll deal with that situation, that attention, that media aspect of it. The good, the bad attention you’ll get. Compared to Kaepernick, it’s like, he’s not really that good [enough] of a player to deal with.”
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http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...epernick-and-its-not-because-of-his-protests/

As for the firing of players, that hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will. Aside from the massive cost involved and the complex nature of NFL salary cap management, the NFLPA (Player's Association) will fight any form of unfair dismissal, as they always do. Furthermore, the current CBA expires in 3-years and you can be sure that the NFLPA will come out swinging in terms of what players can and cannot do. The owners will also have to think very carefully about what they do heading in to the CBA as the last thing they would want is a lock-out where the best players refuse to sign and play.

Just to shed some light, many owners showed solidarity with their players, including good 'ol southern boy Jerry Jones (owner of the Dallas Cowboys), who is the most powerful figure in the NFL. It is true, some owners (Jones included) have had a change of heart and will now ask their players to stand because they are also businessmen, and the NFL did indeed experience a ratings drop when all of this started. It is starting to recover but they are not keen to see a repeat. The only players who would be at serious risk of losing their jobs would be 2nd and 3rd string players who could be cut with minimal hits to a team's salary cap (no guaranteed money to pay) but the big players probably get benched and at worst fined, again subject to what the NFLPA has to say about that.
 
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thestaggy said:
As a 15-year follower of the sport, I call nonsense.

Kaepernick is not a good QB anymore, most certainly not good enough to start for any of the 32 teams. The consensus among industry insiders is that he is at best a back-up and because of this it isn't worth the media scrutiny and hype he will come with. This is even confirmed by a fellow - black - NFL player; LeSean McCoy.







http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...epernick-and-its-not-because-of-his-protests/

As for the firing of players, that hasn't happened yet and I doubt it will. Aside from the massive cost involved and the complex nature of NFL salary cap management, the NFLPA (Player's Association) will fight any form of unfair dismissal, as they always do. Furthermore, the current CBA expires in 3-years and you can be sure that the NFLPA will come out swinging in terms of what players can and cannot do. The owners will also have to think very carefully about what they do heading in to the CBA as the last thing they would want is a lock-out where the best players refuse to sign and play.

Just to shed some light, many owners showed solidarity with their players, including good 'ol southern boy Jerry Jones (owner of the Dallas Cowboys), who is the most powerful figure in the NFL. It is true, some owners have had a change of heart and will now ask their players to stand because they are also businessmen, and the NFL did indeed experience a ratings drop when all of this started. It is starting to recover but they are not keen to see a repeat. The only players who would be at serious risk of losing their jobs would be 2nd and 3rd string players who could be cut with minimal hits to a team's salary cap (no guaranteed money to pay) but the big players probably get fines at worst if it passes the NFLPA.
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The same Jerry Jones who said players would be benched if the kneel?
 
Saber_rider45 said:
The same Jerry Jones who said players would be benched if the kneel?
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I updated my comment before you responded.

Benched /= fired.

And anyway, benching players will hurt him more, especially if it is any of the starters.

And just to clear it further; unless a player is in clear breach of contract and this breach can be verified by the NFLPA, you cannot get rid of a player without it hitting you financially. There will be guaranteed money that has to be paid out as well as a salary cap hit that will limit the amount of money a team can spend on player salaries in coming seasons. Its not uncommon to cut a player today and then still have a portion his salary on your books for the next 2/3-years, money you cannot use to pay another player. Marquee players can have guaranteed sums stretching from 10$ - 50$ million +. You gonna cut a guy and have to pay him $20 million up front because he didn't stand? You gonna cut multiple players and go through this? Zero business sense. Its just words to satisfy the paying viewers, some of whom have closed their wallets.

Also, worker's unions have come out in defence of non-playing personnel, challenging owners' threats to fire staff. Nothing in the rules says you must stand, it isn't part of their employment contracts.
 
thestaggy said:
I updated my comment before you responded.

Benched /= fired.

And anyway, benching players will hurt him more, especially if it is any of the starters.

And just to clear it further; unless a player is in clear breach of contract and this breach can be verified by the NFLPA, you cannot get rid of a player without it hitting you financially. There will be guaranteed money that has to be paid out as well as a salary cap hit that will limit the amount of money a team can spend on player salaries in coming seasons. Its not uncommon to cut a player today and then still have a portion his salary on your books for the next 2/3-years, money you cannot use to pay another player. Marquee players can have guaranteed sums stretching from 10$ - 50$ million +. You gonna cut a guy and have to pay him $20 million up front because he didn't stand? You gonna cut multiple players and go through this? Zero business sense. Its just words to satisfy the paying viewers, some of whom have closed their wallets.

Also, worker's unions have come out in defence of non-playing personnel, challenging owners' threats to fire staff. Nothing in the rules says you must stand, it isn't part of their employment contracts.
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Like this here thread it's turned into a mess, the original message has been lost but I guess that's the point turn into something it's not and just ignore the actual reason.
 
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