Telkom, ISPs and uncapped ADSL bandwidth

sabagamma said:
Maybe, but an even better solution would be to toss ICASA over a bridge. Then tell Telkom if they don't get their act together they're next.

Simply put Telkom's argument is illogical. Not being capped means that after paying a fixed amount for a service, once the bandwidth for that service is exhausted then the person will be allowed local access without any extra charges. If the person refuses to pay any more money then they are capped which they cannot be according to the regulations. You don't need to be a lawyer to clarify that.
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This is something we can exploit!! :rolleyes:

They may not cap me even if I do not pay for the local (after capped bandwidht) usage. :eek:

sabagamma you'r an Einstein!!! :D

:sick: The ISP may not cap you, but they will most certainly cancel your account for non payment...:sick:
 
Uncapped local was never going to be a feasible solution. The local ADSL loop would soon become as saturated as the IS News Server and since there would be no reason to improve the network (they're not making any money from the it), we would probably all end up with like 5kb/s.

Whilst some of ICASA's regulations were vaguely intelligent, this one certainly wasn't very well thought through...that kind of thing is becoming ICASA's trademark.

Edit: I apologize in advance if my "seeing it from the other side" irritates you. I've been on the business end of SA Broadband for a while now and I'm speaking from my own experience.
 
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Kryon_MC said:
What is it they don't understand? All we have ever asked for is that if, for example, we are allocated 3 gigs of data, those 3 gigs will be allocated to international leaving our local uncapped and not counting towards our 3 gigs. Is that too hard to understand on Telkom's and ICASA's side?

Now they come up with all this capped, uncapped local mumbo jumbo!

Someone should actually draft a set of regulations and hand it to ICASA! Get everyone on the forum to contribute and give their say! :cool:
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I'd be surprised if telkom didnt do just that.
Equinox said:
Uncapped local was never going to be a feasible solution. The local ADSL loop would soon become as saturated as the IS News Server and since there would be no reason to improve the network (they're not making any money from the it), we would probably all end up with like 5kb/s.
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Yet it wasnt that long ago that we all had uncapped local. SA is the only country I know where progress means reverting back to the way things used to be.
 
All this was to be expected right from the start. Think back to the hearings that were held. Although there were some brave words spoken by ICASA, as stated in the article, they never had a clue, and still don't. Telkom is so deeply intrenched into certain pockets, I doubt that we would ever see true telecoms competition. NeoTel....imminent, LLU....imminent, proper regulations....imminent, interest of the SA population at heart...never.
 
Equinox said:
Uncapped local was never going to be a feasible solution. The local ADSL loop would soon become as saturated as the IS News Server and since there would be no reason to improve the network (they're not making any money from the it), we would probably all end up with like 5kb/s.

Whilst some of ICASA's regulations were vaguely intelligent, this one certainly wasn't very well thought through...that kind of thing is becoming ICASA's trademark.

Edit: I apologize in advance if my "seeing it from the other side" irritates you. I've been on the business end of SA Broadband for a while now and I'm speaking from my own experience.
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Finally, someone with some common sense!!! :)

Nothing is ever for free... I also had this question in mind: How do we expect Telkom to maintain and grow the network if we are not willing to pay for the usage of that network (See my previous posts). Its like wanting to drive your car on the highway without paying for the maintenance of that road (Fuel taxes, toll gates etc.) The money has to come from those that use it, not? :rolleyes:

This however does not excuse the extremely high cost of local bandwidth, Telkom needs to be open and transparent with regards to their network costs in order to justify these high prices!! :mad:
 
rpm said:
The same as current local bandwidth...I guess around R 15-00 per GB...
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HI rpm,

Can you obtain information that would substanciate this high price? We need pressure to be placed on both Telkom and ICASA to explain the high costs of local bandwidht!! :mad:

Can you do something about this!! Or at least try? :confused:
 
FFS... Whats there to regulate ..... ?????
ICASA NEEDS WITH IMMEDIATE EFFECT:
* Implement LLU
* Open SAT3 lending site

After that we will be in open market with even playfield to all and each and every one of the players can form their own products based on economics not regulations and profiteering practices.
 
Rooi Willie said:
Finally, someone with some common sense!!! :)

Nothing is ever for free... I also had this question in mind: How do we expect Telkom to maintain and grow the network if we are not willing to pay for the usage of that network (See my previous posts). Its like wanting to drive your car on the highway without paying for the maintenance of that road (Fuel taxes, toll gates etc.) The money has to come from those that use it, not? :rolleyes:

This however does not excuse the extremely high cost of local bandwidth, Telkom needs to be open and transparent with regards to their network costs in order to justify these high prices!! :mad:
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Then what is the r413.00 ADSL line rental I pay each month being used for if not infrastructure? In fact I'm paying twice for the same copper line.
 
Rooi Willie said:
Finally, someone with some common sense!!! :)

Nothing is ever for free... I also had this question in mind: How do we expect Telkom to maintain and grow the network if we are not willing to pay for the usage of that network (See my previous posts). Its like wanting to drive your car on the highway without paying for the maintenance of that road (Fuel taxes, toll gates etc.) The money has to come from those that use it, not? :rolleyes:

This however does not excuse the extremely high cost of local bandwidth, Telkom needs to be open and transparent with regards to their network costs in order to justify these high prices!! :mad:
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I would say that the freakin ADSL line rental charge more than cover any cost to maintain a local network , so why pay for data usage as well ? EDIT: aaah beaten to it :)
 
Rooi Willie said:
Can you obtain information that would substanciate this high price? We need pressure to be placed on both Telkom and ICASA to explain the high costs of local bandwidht!
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From the letter received by ISPs:
Local bandwidth will be priced at a lower rate compared to “blended” bandwidth (consisting of both local and international bandwidth).
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ISPs will therefore be billed for standard local bandwidth after users start using the 'local only' portion...
 
bwana said:
Then what is the r413.00 ADSL line rental I pay each month being used for if not infrastructure? In fact I'm paying twice for the same copper line.
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Thats why we need Telkom to explain their costs structures!!

I suspect that the DSL rental pays for your DSLAM port and backbone network. The IP network (SAIX) is paid for by ISP's through the bandwidht that they use and ultimatley sell to us. This is the only way they can justify the seperation of their costs...

We need Telkom to explain this in detail - rpm needs to get this information and share it with us!! :confused:
 
Equinox said:
Uncapped local was never going to be a feasible solution. The local ADSL loop would soon become as saturated as the IS News Server and since there would be no reason to improve the network (they're not making any money from the it), we would probably all end up with like 5kb/s.

Whilst some of ICASA's regulations were vaguely intelligent, this one certainly wasn't very well thought through...that kind of thing is becoming ICASA's trademark.

Edit: I apologize in advance if my "seeing it from the other side" irritates you. I've been on the business end of SA Broadband for a while now and I'm speaking from my own experience.
Click to expand...

Yes you have it right, however how will they be able to sell their International bandwidth if they don't upgrade the local loop? That should be their motivation for upgrading. We can't reach international part without going through the local part. Same with the Media thing. There is talk about some form of fibre being installed, for them to be able to deliver their product. So they are upgrading and have many reasons for doing so other than local loop internet access.

I'm pretty sure Telkom knows exactly what they are doing and all of it is geared to raping this country for all it's worth for as long as they can. They are firstly getting a fixed monthly rental fee which should more than cover any amount of local usage. Plus now TelkomMedia will be using the DSLAM's as well (as I understand it), and ofcourse being the upstanding business they are TelkomMedia will be paying Telkom for the use of the DSLAM (right).

I believe that (at least) any amount of local traffic is paid for by us every month with those rediculously high line rentals. Local should be FREE and UNMETERED. There is simply no excuse.
 
rpm said:
From the letter received by ISPs:ISPs will therefore be billed for standard local bandwidth after users start using the 'local only' portion...
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rpm,

This is not what I meant...:(

We need to understand how Telkom can justify the local price of bandwidht - if at all!! :confused: This implies that they (Telkom) need to explain how they derive the cost of bandwidht to get to a price of R15 per gig (local).

I suspect that ISPs pay far less than R15 per gig, and the real cost might be R10 per gig to Telkom. The question is this: What and how do they calculate this price of R10 per gig? Can you find the answer to that? :confused:
 
Rooi Willie said:
We need Telkom to explain this in detail - rpm needs to get this information and share it with us!! :confused:
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I dont think Telkom is exactly forthcoming with that sort of info but perhaps you might try and then share your experiences with us?
 
If a lawyer could argue that ICASA's poor regulations never mentioned that uncapped local bandwidth had to be free, any idiot could argue that uncapped means to have no limit.

Since it has no limit, how can you pay for usage that is theoretically unlimited. Since this means that Telkom cannot disconnect you from local content, does it mean they just keep charging you infinitum until the billing period is over?

And if this is the case, do I then not have a say as to what the maximum amount is I am willing to pay. If Telkom agrees and then disconnects me when i reach my limit, does that then not mean that I am being capped?
 
Telkom "does not know" what capped is remember, apparently there is no definition for it in the regulations or so I read somewhere.
 
Rooi Willie said:
Finally, someone with some common sense!!! :)

Nothing is ever for free... I also had this question in mind: How do we expect Telkom to maintain and grow the network if we are not willing to pay for the usage of that network (See my previous posts). Its like wanting to drive your car on the highway without paying for the maintenance of that road (Fuel taxes, toll gates etc.) The money has to come from those that use it, not? :rolleyes:

This however does not excuse the extremely high cost of local bandwidth, Telkom needs to be open and transparent with regards to their network costs in order to justify these high prices!! :mad:
Click to expand...

It is most certainly not free, which is why we are paying R120 for an unused phone line and R150 upwards for the connection. If they want to charge us on bandwidth fine, then drop ALL line charges and charge ONLY bandwidth.
 
And once more, why does it cost saix R15 per local gigabyte, when an IS ISP can offer 30GB for R130????? That's R4/gb and actually includes an overhead for the ISP to make a living on?
 
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