Telkom ruling sends shivers down the spine

//it is not very easy to dodge supreme court of appeal judgements - as mr shaik is busy finding out
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lol

unfortunately though that was a criminal matter and while telkoms conduct is criminal the matter at hand was not a criminal case. The CC seems quite happy to take over SCA judgments (the LIO judgement earlier, pharmacutical manufacturers and of course same sex marriages) and Im not so sure they always deliver as sound decisions. Also Telkom doesn't have an asset forfiture order sitting above its head freezing up its assets etc ...
 
Paul Hjul said:
lol

unfortunately though that was a criminal matter and while telkoms conduct is criminal the matter at hand was not a criminal case. The CC seems quite happy to take over SCA judgments (the LIO judgment earlier, pharmaceutical manufacturers and of course same sex marriages) and Im not so sure they always deliver as sound decisions. Also Telkom doesn't have an asset forfiture order sitting above its head freezing up its assets etc ...
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sure - you can only appeal to the CC if there is a constitutional matter at stake and then only on very narrow grounds...have not read the judgment but it would not appear to me that such grounds exist in this matter

on the other hand this is not a final judgement in the sense that the SCA is telling telkom to stop whining and go back to the original arbitration (which had the audacity to find against them) for a further hearing into quantum - so the only thing that is not settled is how much......
 
Im busy with it (read three paragraphs, do some work, WAB here etc ..., read more) and don't see any grounds either but I didn't see any grounds on the same-sex marriages either and suspect that the ratio surrounding administrative matters could be furthered as a ground.

What I do like is the awarding of costs for 3 counsel:
"Telcordia is in the circumstances of the case entitled to the costs of three counsel during all stages of the proceedings, including the petition for leave to appeal, which Telkom opposed"
 
On the day of the judgment — coinciding with a negative analyst report — Telkom’s stock fell R5 to R130, knocking R2,7bn off its R73bn market value.
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suppose thats R5 to R1.30 ??

or by R5 it fell 0_o

hehe ;)
 
dominic said:
:)

turns out theres a big ol' nasty world outside SA

//it is not very easy to dodge supreme court of appeal judgements - as mr shaik is busy finding out
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I will second that!
The SCA does an excellent job in my opinion.
The SCA consistently passes fine judgements that this country can be proud of.
And further proves that Telkom's Legal team are not infallible.

In my own experience in our Industry The SCA overturned a Cape Town High Court Judgement which has set a very nice precedent for our particular line of business.
The SCA's 32 page judgement stopped short of questioning the judge in the lower court. A well known judge in the Cape High Court might I add, that has been in the media on more than one occasion for various questionable actions.
Personally I will never trust that Judge again to pass a decent verdict.
The person that followed the judgement all the way to The SCA wanted to clear his name and spent the better part of 3 years researching his case. He basically wasted 2 to 3 years of his life to clear his name because of a **** and "unjust" judgement.
 
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Oh man that judgement is some sweet reading.

I reckon a MyADSL shirt would go down a treat ;)

Perhaps Telkom forgot to install the good judge's line?
 
Paul Hjul said:
Im busy with it (read three paragraphs, do some work, WAB here etc ..., read more) and don't see any grounds either but I didn't see any grounds on the same-sex marriages either and suspect that the ratio surrounding administrative matters could be furthered as a ground.

What I do like is the awarding of costs for 3 counsel:
"Telcordia is in the circumstances of the case entitled to the costs of three counsel during all stages of the proceedings, including the petition for leave to appeal, which Telkom opposed"
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same-sex marriages is directly constitutional as it relates to the fundamental right of equality - the Bill of Rights has a specific provision prohibiting unjustified discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation

i must look at the administrative matters ratio as this is again a direct constitutional issue in that everyone has the right to fair administrative action -not sure how this would have been compromised in this matter as it seems to turn on the manner in which a private contract was enforced, i.e. the parties agreed upfront on how it would be done (but telkom did not like the result)

some form of appeal to the CC would not be surprising (see under s for shaik again) as the costs of doing so would probably be less than the interest tlkom will make on cash it does not have to pay out

@BTTB - ahoy :) - there are some seriously intelligent folks up at the SCA who have seen all before...as a lawyer you are quickly made aware that this is one place where you do not even begin to BS......

lol, 3 counsel - never seen that before.....eina
 
dominic said:
@BTTB - ahoy :) - there are some seriously intelligent folks up at the SCA who have seen all before...as a lawyer you are quickly made aware that this is one place where you do not even begin to BS......

lol, 3 counsel - never seen that before.....eina
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All hands on deck. Weigh the Anchor. Hard to Port. LOL. :D

There must be "issues" in the Lower Courts that the SCA can make such lengthy judgements? Some even longer than the one in the Lower Court?

Are we heading for troubled waters with the Lower Courts?
A lot of arbitrary decisions been made that effect all of us indirectly.
 
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Interesting... so now their unethical business practices is slowly and surely catching up with them...

...anybody got some popcorn and comfy chairs?
 
The_Librarian said:
Interesting... so now their unethical business practices is slowly and surely catching up with them...
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Yeah :D

(even the shifty-eyed baggage handlers at the Airports Company must have stopped pilfering from passengers’ bags to shake their heads in dismay)
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That just says it all.
 
dominic said:
same-sex marriages is directly constitutional as it relates to the fundamental right of equality - the Bill of Rights has a specific provision prohibiting unjustified discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation
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I didn't say that same-sex marriages shouldn't be allowed - Im fully in favour.
However if one looks at the Supreme Court of Appeal decision v the CC decision, and more importantly all of the crap that came with the CC decision, the question of why comes up.

Quite honestly I don't care if it is the common law or the constitution that gives me rights all I care about is having those rights.
 
I think its time to call on the government to sell its shares in Telkom. This company is headed down the tubes. I want my country's money invested in something viable and which shows more integrity than Telkom.

Don't get me wrong: I still see Telkom hanging onto life and power - much like Robert Mugabe. But I do see a lot less people doing business with them in the future.

This time next year, I bet you'll be able to get a new Telkom line installed within 48 hours - because you would be the only new client that they've had in three months.
 
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Yeah this is great and all...
but am I the only one who feels that EX-CEO Sizwe has gotten away with murder?
 
I truely believe the consumer is going to be footing that bill. I do not for a second think that R2bn is going to be payed out without it affecting the consumer. Telkom simply does not work that way :(

For that reason alone, I'm not happy with this verdict!
 
Paul Hjul said:
I didn't say that same-sex marriages shouldn't be allowed - Im fully in favour.
However if one looks at the Supreme Court of Appeal decision v the CC decision, and more importantly all of the crap that came with the CC decision, the question of why comes up.

Quite honestly I don't care if it is the common law or the constitution that gives me rights all I care about is having those rights.
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i'm with you (and was only pointing out the constitutional issue inherent in same-sex [-]marriages[/-] civil unions not pointing fingers :) )

if the advantage of a constitution is a fresh start and wider access to and understanding of those rights i am all for it. the SCA applies the law strictly and correctly to those standing before it and with due regard to the system of precedent. The CC is more about the balancing of rights against each other and against the validity of any professed need of the state to limit these right within the broader social context (e.g. the Marriage Act under which only a male and a female could marry was seen as an unjustifiable limitation on the right of equality in the light of the fact that homos3xuality has entered the mainstream - marriage is a legal act with legal consequences).

@BTTB - i don't hang out in courts but there were very few magistrates, imro, who knew what they were doing - in the first matter i appeared in the magistrate overruled a line of Appellate Division cases going back to 1921! as far as i know the standard at high court level is pretty solid - Appeal Courts coming to different decisions is neither rare nor new
 
HosstheBoss said:
I truely believe the consumer is going to be footing that bill. I do not for a second think that R2bn is going to be payed out without it affecting the consumer. Telkom simply does not work that way :(

For that reason alone, I'm not happy with this verdict!
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Nothing can be done about it now. We all know it. But rather try to see the bright side like a good ol' mastercard cliche.

3 month wait ADSL installation: R500

World exclusive monthly ADSL rental fee: R350

Exorbitant per gig download not to found anywhere else on planet earth in the 21st century: R60

Bashing some sense into Telkom: Priceless

(Don't quote my prices - rough thumbsucked estimates: much more accurate than an equivalent Telkom attempt though)
 
While this is really amusing, I note that Telkom's shares only took a R5 knock. thats very dissapointing. I would really have hoped for more.
 
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