Lycanthrope
Honorary Master
lol, thanks for the offer, but I'm sure I'll manage. As I said, I'll see how this month goes, and depending, I'll move over to Open Web until Neotel moves its butt to Cape Town.
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TelkomInternet - Capped Users for May 2007
- Thread starter Lycanthrope
- Start date
lol, thanks for the offer, but I'm sure I'll manage. As I said, I'll see how this month goes, and depending, I'll move over to Open Web until Neotel moves its butt to Cape Town.
ranger
Expert Member
Was that you asking to be capped at 3GB?
To be answer the question, for each 3GB account "sold" by SAIX to an ISP, the ISP effectively pays for 3GB. So, the average usage should not exceed 3GB (or the ISP will make a loss on the product). However, there are valid reasons for users to exceed 3GB, for which they will not be penalised.
However, allowing a small number of abusive users to continually exceed ~50GB means that all the other "good" customers suffer. Reducing the extremity of the current abuse will allow more customers to get more than what they pay for (instead of the few abusive ones as was the case until last month).
hj2k_x
Honorary Master
Cap me at 3GB? Don't make me laugh. I have never been with TelkomISP and never will be. I would love you to cap people hard at 3GB. Then watch them jump ship.
It is happening already.
bonobo_slr
Well-Known Member
Suit yourself. You have not been capped at 2Gb unless you are using a <user>@telkomsa.net account. That I can assure you. if you have a dsl.2gbsh.telkomsa.net account, then you will be capped at 4Gb. That is what I am seeing on other accounts and I am sure yours would be no different.
Lycanthrope
Honorary Master
See, but that is where I find fault. I pay for a 4mbps line, yay, so I have some speed. Then, I'm still forced to buy permission to USE that line, boo, there's the fault. When back in the day, we paid R90-odd for a line, connected with a modem to our service provider who would help us get connected, and that was that.
Now we not only have to pay for that nice service provider to help us get connected, but we also have to pay for the permission to be connected, and that, I consider ridiculous.
Sure, I use a lot of bandwidth on my 2GB account, and for good reason - I'm paying R1200 a month out of my pocket for what I'm forced to admit to being the "best" in SA save the uncapped accounts - which I obviously can't afford. So, I use my 2GB account into totality for the sake of getting my money's worth. Is that abuse? Why?
I don't do anything illegal - at least not to my knowledge. I buy all my games (goodness knows I love RPGs), I play online games, I'm addicted to silly YouTube anime amvs, (not to mention the silly Japanese candid camera things that always make me laugh)... Am I doing anything illegal? No. And then there are the days when I like downloading big demos of games, like Supreme Commander, now THAT'S a big demo to download. And that alone was a cap gone.
Ironically, R300 for a cap, R300 for the game - har ... har... HAR! And all I got out of it was the demo.
Now please, tell me how that is "abuse", oh, right, I'm "abusing" something that should be AFFORDABLE and NOT cost and arm and a leg each month!
Again, Telkom's idea of what the internet is and what the internet really SHOULD be and IS, are two very different things.
As previously said by someone, we're barely even feeling the joys of Web1.0... And we use up an entire cap on Web2.0 services.
Lycanthrope
Honorary Master
Nope, I have a [email protected] account, and that was capped yesterday/today (take your pick). But don't worry
And thanks for your concern ^.^
hj2k_x
Honorary Master
Switch from Telkom. Now.
Guys, I hate to say this, but I must... we should not go and complain to him bout policy at Telkom. If there is something wrong and we need something done, cool.. but if its like the pricing or what we need to pay for, I don't think he can do a lot about that in terms of changing the status quo.
ranger
Expert Member
The < 5% that exceed their cap? Or the < 2% that exceed twice the cap? Or the < 1% that use more than the 5%?
Do note that the idea is to improve things for the vast majority of users.
Lycanthrope
Honorary Master
Improve? I'm sorry, I must've missed something along the way.
bonobo_slr
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this. I was just going to post a message saying that we can help people with general queries and such but there is nothing we can do about Telkom Policy. I understand that people may be frustrated with Telkom for a variety of reasons, but bitching to me or my colleagues is pointless.
I can listen to requests for services / products and suggest them to our business section, but mainly we are here to assist with telkominternet dsl issues such as the current tracker issue. Other than that I am afraid there is not a lot I can do.
If the bitching becomes too much, it makes it hard to sieve out what is a general request or query and what is just rubbish, and when that happens we are just wasting our time.
I think i've read enough, Everyone, fork out the extra Moola and get Openweb uncapped. It may be slower, but atleast you don't have to worry about getting capped!.
Honestly, Telkom can keep their capping and shove it where the sun won't EVER shine! (mostly because Telkom's always trying to screw us, and not the other way around!
)
Telkom Reps: I realise that you guys are here to assist and cant move mountains, there's nothing worse than getting screamed at by a customer for something you have no control over, so yea, you guys are VERY brave helping this forum!
Honestly, Telkom can keep their capping and shove it where the sun won't EVER shine! (mostly because Telkom's always trying to screw us, and not the other way around!
)Telkom Reps: I realise that you guys are here to assist and cant move mountains, there's nothing worse than getting screamed at by a customer for something you have no control over, so yea, you guys are VERY brave helping this forum!
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Lycanthrope
Honorary Master
lol @ LabAnimal, and yeah, I know that you Telkom reps have no control, etc. And I'm sorry. But one way or the other, I just can't help but find it ridiculous. C'est la vie.
ranger
Expert Member
You were still paying once for the line, and once for ISP services. No amount of ranting about it will change it in the immediate future.
A 2GB account on a 4mbps line does sound a bit mis-matched (just as a Core 2 Duo 6400 on 256MB ram would be ...), especially seeing as you can hit your cap in 7 hours. If in theory you were to use at 4mbps for > 24 hours after exceeding the point where you would be capped (let's say 4GB for now), you could in theory hit somewhere around 30GB, in effect denying 13 other users their ability to exceed their cap by 2GB.
Which kind of customer do you think we should be encouraging ?
I can see why self-service petrol stations would never work in this country ... where they do in all first-world countries. I've got a photo from the UK that has an even more extreme example that wouldn't work either .... I'll see if I can post it somewhere.
Technically, yes. However, depending on how much you use, it may be tolerated. E.g., if you were hitting 4GB, no problem. If you were hitting 8GB, you may even be in luck. If you were hitting over 20GB, you're the kind of user we want to have re-assess how they use the internet.
This is not about legal vs illegal.
Well, for specific types of downloads there may be other options that can be explored. But, people who have torrented 80GB in a month ...
Don't shoot the messenger.
Well, some people run real businesses off a DSL account. Allowing them to exceed their cap by a reasonable margin every once in a while (and allowing access to business-critical services even if they've totally trashed it) is a better service to the country/our customers than allowing the guys currently hitting 60GB on videos, games, and trash to continue abusing.
Very little of the abuse is likely to be either ... in most circumstances it is non-http protocols ....
Lycanthrope
Honorary Master
Ranger, some people also run real businesses off of uncapped accounts that don't bother using caps.
Look, both of us can make excuses over excuses either for or against capping, but regardless of how you look at it, capping people isn't "playing nice".
The very concept of a "capped" internet is ridiculous.
Let's think about this in a rational perspective. There's this big ... pond... of bandwidth... Then there's a large .. er.. herd... of... er... internet-users. (I've never been good with metaphors, but bear with me)
Right now, everyone's having their sip of water from the pond, good enough to "survive" but not exactly one of those many luxuries that say, those sods over there on the other side next to their ocean are having.
The problem we're all having, is that there's more than enough water to go around but we're still rationed to high-priced "survival" rather than low-cost "commodity" ...
What is being abused? That's what I don't understand. WHAT is this... "abuse" word that keeps being thrown around? My local bandwidth never goes under 400kB/s... So that's sure as heck not suffering. International is a different story, but that's an acceptable thing to deal with.
I don't get what the problem is? Why is it so difficult to give people affordable access to uncapped internet connectivity? Hell, even uncapped LOCAL access would be a great start.
It's ridiculous that so much money is WASTED.
You (ranger) said,
"A 2GB account on a 4mbps line does sound a bit mis-matched (just as a Core 2 Duo 6400 on 256MB ram would be ...), especially seeing as you can hit your cap in 7 hours. If in theory you were to use at 4mbps for > 24 hours after exceeding the point where you would be capped (let's say 4GB for now), you could in theory hit somewhere around 30GB, in effect denying 13 other users their ability to exceed their cap by 2GB."
But just in saying that you're enforcing the usage of caps... Take away caps from the equation and what do you have? Really "happy" and "relaxed" internet usage instead of people grabbing up as much bandwidth as possible to get their money's worth.
I'm sorry, but I believe that capping is wrong. Hell, paying R1200 a month and being capped is wrong.
I'm just muddling thoughts around here, but one way or the other, "abuse" is just a term Telkom's come up with for people that try to get what they pay for.
And I'm sorry, but the internet isn't just about "http" protocols. Goodness knows that torrents are occasionally faster to download some things than downloading them directly from the site their hosted on.
I'm sorry, I just don't see the need for capping. It causes people to spend more money than they should, businesses to spend more money than they should, and best of all, it stifles the "average person" online-business growth that could, but never will emerge if capping continues.
Look, both of us can make excuses over excuses either for or against capping, but regardless of how you look at it, capping people isn't "playing nice".
The very concept of a "capped" internet is ridiculous.
Let's think about this in a rational perspective. There's this big ... pond... of bandwidth... Then there's a large .. er.. herd... of... er... internet-users. (I've never been good with metaphors, but bear with me)
Right now, everyone's having their sip of water from the pond, good enough to "survive" but not exactly one of those many luxuries that say, those sods over there on the other side next to their ocean are having.
The problem we're all having, is that there's more than enough water to go around but we're still rationed to high-priced "survival" rather than low-cost "commodity" ...
What is being abused? That's what I don't understand. WHAT is this... "abuse" word that keeps being thrown around? My local bandwidth never goes under 400kB/s... So that's sure as heck not suffering. International is a different story, but that's an acceptable thing to deal with.
I don't get what the problem is? Why is it so difficult to give people affordable access to uncapped internet connectivity? Hell, even uncapped LOCAL access would be a great start.
It's ridiculous that so much money is WASTED.
You (ranger) said,
"A 2GB account on a 4mbps line does sound a bit mis-matched (just as a Core 2 Duo 6400 on 256MB ram would be ...), especially seeing as you can hit your cap in 7 hours. If in theory you were to use at 4mbps for > 24 hours after exceeding the point where you would be capped (let's say 4GB for now), you could in theory hit somewhere around 30GB, in effect denying 13 other users their ability to exceed their cap by 2GB."
But just in saying that you're enforcing the usage of caps... Take away caps from the equation and what do you have? Really "happy" and "relaxed" internet usage instead of people grabbing up as much bandwidth as possible to get their money's worth.
I'm sorry, but I believe that capping is wrong. Hell, paying R1200 a month and being capped is wrong.
I'm just muddling thoughts around here, but one way or the other, "abuse" is just a term Telkom's come up with for people that try to get what they pay for.
And I'm sorry, but the internet isn't just about "http" protocols. Goodness knows that torrents are occasionally faster to download some things than downloading them directly from the site their hosted on.
I'm sorry, I just don't see the need for capping. It causes people to spend more money than they should, businesses to spend more money than they should, and best of all, it stifles the "average person" online-business growth that could, but never will emerge if capping continues.
ranger
Expert Member
Maybe they're happy to take the hit to increase market share?
Show me another business arena where users are allowed to use as much of a resource that costs the provider money as they can.
Does Vodacom give you unlimited on-peak airtime ? Does BP let you fill up as much as you like for a once-off fee (heck, they don't even trust you to fill up yourself like most countries do).? Is Mugg&Bean happy for you to drink one bottomless cup all day?
But the beer flows for free at Firkin?
In your analogy, you are using a resource that doens't cost anything to provide. Get a quote for 1 100mbps ATM (or IP if you're lucky enough) with unlimited use, and then think if your analogy is accurate (or, if your herd can't drink the polluted water, and someone has to pay to purify it etc.).
SAIX tried this. ISPs abused it. SAIX could not recover their costs. SAIX told ISPs to pay for all their own usage (and do what they like with their customers).
In a society where people willingly waste resources just because they can, what else can be expected?
Right, so how would the ISP pay SAIX for the un-accounted-for 26GB of usage?
It doesn't seem Telkom can take responsibility for that. See what google says about "bandwidth abuse".
web and web2.0 are
.I could say I don't see the need for taxes, thus I should not have to pay as much tax as everyone else. However, I am sure SARS won't agree with me, and I am sure you pay more tax than access costs ...
Now, debating whether there should be capping or not will not lead us anywhere. Debating how it should be done will be done by other people. Ensuring that it is working correctly, and possibly providing some means of feedback to those that decide how to cap *is* possible, let's try and concentrate on what we can improve, rather than the issues that irritate us all but that no-one here can do anything about.
Lycanthrope
Honorary Master
lol @ Ranger 
I like you, you make me smile
The difference between petrol and ADSL is, at BP, you pay for the petrol to get your car going. We pay for our ADSL lines, that's our petrol, but we have to get a new engine every month
Explain to me then how the SAT-3 works. From what I understand is that it's a static amount that is paid, which is apparently higher from us to say London, than from London to us. Why not work with that? Why not estimate the costs, and then work off the costs to the subscribers?
For example, let's say the SAT-3 usage costs... oh... R5000 a month to access (yes, yes, ridiculously low amount), why not spread that to the 20 subscribers and give them unlimited access to it? R250 per person. And then add the line rental to that. Is that so difficult?
There are already over 400,000 users. Let's assume the SAT-3 access is R10,000,000 to access.... 400K goes into 10mil 25 times... That's R25 each and then the line costs are settled. Let Telkom add their profits to that and then still have people pay for the line rental.
Yes, I know, my estimations might be off and I might be completely wrong and it works completely differently, but why not? I don't get that. There are more than enough people in South Africa using ADSL to be able to cater for the costs, aren't there? So again, WHY cap?
All I'm asking now, is that you explain it to me.
I like you, you make me smile The difference between petrol and ADSL is, at BP, you pay for the petrol to get your car going. We pay for our ADSL lines, that's our petrol, but we have to get a new engine every month
Explain to me then how the SAT-3 works. From what I understand is that it's a static amount that is paid, which is apparently higher from us to say London, than from London to us. Why not work with that? Why not estimate the costs, and then work off the costs to the subscribers?
For example, let's say the SAT-3 usage costs... oh... R5000 a month to access (yes, yes, ridiculously low amount
), why not spread that to the 20 subscribers and give them unlimited access to it? R250 per person. And then add the line rental to that. Is that so difficult?There are already over 400,000 users. Let's assume the SAT-3 access is R10,000,000 to access.... 400K goes into 10mil 25 times... That's R25 each and then the line costs are settled. Let Telkom add their profits to that and then still have people pay for the line rental.
Yes, I know, my estimations might be off and I might be completely wrong and it works completely differently, but why not? I don't get that. There are more than enough people in South Africa using ADSL to be able to cater for the costs, aren't there? So again, WHY cap?
All I'm asking now, is that you explain it to me.
Hi bonobo
Thanks for your input about this capping limit.
Is this a new policy being implemented this month?
In the months before, I would be capped on the 4th or 5th day. This month something is very different, so I guess this is a new capping policy being implemented?
Thanks for your participation in the forum, we appreciate the information.
I'm sure you have read it all over this forum so I wont bore anyone by stating it for the millionth time, but what people want are ADSL products that they can feel are on par with other countries in at least some regard, whether it is price, speed or usage limits. At present I think we dont have any of these. All my friends living overseas cant believe I am paying around 100US$ per month for something that is a fraction of their speed and so restricted that I literally count my megabytes like some wartime ration. Whatever ones feeling on capping is, for the money being paid by ADSL subscribers I think 3Gb (for combined upload + download) is extremely prohibitve and severely out of touch with what kind of bandwidth the average person consumes with updates, emails, web surfing, youtube, audio/webcam chat. My friend is Hungary is also capped...at 150Gb per month...poor guy. And for that he has to shell out 20 euros a month.
But I guess I cant do anything about it but wait, and 2 years after getting ADSL, for me, things arent looking any better. Either that or pony up R2000 a month, which is not feasible for many people.
On the plus side, getting capped lets you catch up on your reading..lol.
Thanks, Cheers
Maestr0
Senior Member
This sucks! I really thought I would stay with Telkom due to their relaxed capping policy. Now it has changed once again. I also got capped on my 2gb the very first day after my first disconnect. I couldn't believe it. So I don't care about the fact that there are 2 Telkom reps on this forum. Stay the hell a way from me. You will get no positive comments from me at this stage. I am really sick of this ****e. Sounds to me like Telkom appointed to wise asses to deal with complaints and queries on this forum. I don't like wise asses. Ranger you need to keep your snotty comments like "But the beer flows for free at Firkin?" to yourself boet.
NEOTEL WHERE ARE YOU??? You need to come and save us from the devil.
NEOTEL WHERE ARE YOU??? You need to come and save us from the devil.
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